I have 7% Crit

85 Tauren Druid
10715
Pre-2004, I came from Everquest, where the crit rate was like 2% at end game.

Even in Vanilla - I thought the crits in WoW didn't really feel like crits at all. They were too common then. Wrath was... well, those weren't criticals - those were just "normal" hits.

I do remember some talents in Vanilla that were activated to force a critical hit - I liked that far better than sitting there staring at crit after crit.

Seriously, crits should be something that gets a "Neat!" reaction or "WOW!" when it happens. I mean, maybe 1 or 2 for an entire raid encounter - certainly not measured in hundreds per minute during combat.
Reply Quote
12/08/2010 2:11 PMPosted by Tuvael
Pre-2004, I came from Everquest, where the crit rate was like 2% at end game.

Even in Vanilla - I thought the crits in WoW didn't really feel like crits at all. They were too common then. Wrath was... well, those weren't criticals - those were just "normal" hits.

I do remember some talents in Vanilla that were activated to force a critical hit - I liked that far better than sitting there staring at crit after crit.

Seriously, crits should be something that gets a "Neat!" reaction or "WOW!" when it happens. I mean, maybe 1 or 2 for an entire raid encounter - certainly not measured in hundreds per minute during combat.


1 or 2 crits per encounter, unfortunately, would pretty much kill quite a lot of specs that have procs dependent on crit. Fire mages are the poster child for needing crit, since it procs Hot Streak and Ignite, and Combustion relies on having as many DoTs on the target as possible before you pop it (meaning you need a powerful Ignite up). Healers would have a hell of a time keeping up the 10% damage reduction, cats would rarely be getting their extra combo points to proc, etc.

On the other side, crit values got a bit too high in Wrath. Having a rogue or Frost Mage (during Shatter) be able to crit more often than not was just kinda silly.
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
10715

1 or 2 crits per encounter, unfortunately, would pretty much kill quite a lot of specs that have procs dependent on crit. Fire mages are the poster child for needing crit, since it procs Hot Streak and Ignite, and Combustion relies on having as many DoTs on the target as possible before you pop it (meaning you need a powerful Ignite up). Healers would have a hell of a time keeping up the 10% damage reduction, cats would rarely be getting their extra combo points to proc, etc.

On the other side, crit values got a bit too high in Wrath. Having a rogue or Frost Mage (during Shatter) be able to crit more often than not was just kinda silly.


Irrelevant.

Obviously, Blizzard could not just simply turn everyone's crit rate down to 2%. Specs would have to be rebuilt.

The point is - the necessity to have crits is a false assumption created by Blizzard's history of class design. It's not required and every spec that is out there right now (and to come) could be balanced around the lack of crit.

To be honest - damage output would be immensely easier to balance if the crit RNG factor was neutered.

edit: I swear the quote script breaks everytime on these forums.
Edited by Tuvael on 12/8/2010 2:22 PM PST
Reply Quote
85 Human Paladin
2405
Many of these classes with low crit rating simply have low BASE crit ratings.

Rets and Warriors are a prime example. They have no talents that increase their base crit, but have various talents that increase crit chance of X skill by Y%.

Look at your combat log, your OVERALL crit chance is quite a bit higher than you think, just your white attacks don't show it.



Also, to the people who said 2% crit would be good, thats just not how this game works.
Everyone agrees crit ratings were way too high in Wrath, but you guys are rediculous.

As it is, NO I dont get super excited over crits, but even if it was changed to 2% I STILL WOULDNT be excited over them.

What gets me excited is killing someone in PvP, or doing legit DPS, etc. I could care less if crits made me feel special.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Death Knight
5615
People keep talking about ICC HM stat inflation while forgetting that plate melee was not anywere near crit capping when they were wearing plate gear.


I think in the long run, either str based dps should gain crit rating from str at a similar rate that agi grants for an agi based dps spec, OR Agi's crit contribution should be significantly reduced.


Of course, overall damage should be balanced around that as well.


And frankly, 5% seems like a fair number for base crit on plate dps. ~1% seems way too low.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
5415
'It's all ok if damage evens out' is incorrect for PVP. Damage based off burst and crit (such as retribution) will have a dire time in pvp due to resilience.
Reply Quote
12/08/2010 2:21 PMPosted by Tuvael

1 or 2 crits per encounter, unfortunately, would pretty much kill quite a lot of specs that have procs dependent on crit. Fire mages are the poster child for needing crit, since it procs Hot Streak and Ignite, and Combustion relies on having as many DoTs on the target as possible before you pop it (meaning you need a powerful Ignite up). Healers would have a hell of a time keeping up the 10% damage reduction, cats would rarely be getting their extra combo points to proc, etc.

On the other side, crit values got a bit too high in Wrath. Having a rogue or Frost Mage (during Shatter) be able to crit more often than not was just kinda silly.


Irrelevant.

Obviously, Blizzard could not just simply turn everyone's crit rate down to 2%. Specs would have to be rebuilt.

The point is - the necessity to have crits is a false assumption created by Blizzard's history of class design. It's not required and every spec that is out there right now (and to come) could be balanced around the lack of crit.

To be honest - damage output would be immensely easier to balance if the crit RNG factor was neutered.

edit: I swear the quote script breaks everytime on these forums.


Obviously, specs would have to be changed. What I meant (but didn't say very clearly, I apologize), is that people ENJOY these mechanics. They're RNG while still being fairly reliable, and they scale with gear. You could of course just make these mechanics a flat % chance to proc off certain spells, but that doesn't scale with gear. Making crit a flat 2% for everyone would be a hell of a lot less fun, even if damage stays the same. People like seeing big numbers when they play. Making crits appear infrequently would not be fun at all and it would narrow down our gear selection even more by making crit rating useless (assuming it's still even in the game).
Reply Quote
64 Undead Warlock
800
12/08/2010 2:58 PMPosted by Fulgal
'It's all ok if damage evens out' is incorrect for PVP. Damage based off burst and crit (such as retribution) will have a dire time in pvp due to resilience.


Resil has nothing to do with crit anymore, and hasn't since 4.0.

That said some classes are way ahead of other when it comes to crit at 85. sub rogues and feral druids come to mind first and foremost and no it doesn't "even out" along other classes...it fact its not equal at all. A feral's bleeds crit for half the time at 80...and now crit a 1/3 of the time in pvp blues...not a huge drop off really..... same with a rogue's ambush..going from critting 100% of the time to 80% is not crippling to the spec.
Edited by Shadowlol on 12/8/2010 3:10 PM PST
Reply Quote
It's the start of an expansion and we're in blues.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Paladin
0
The interesting thing is, even in vanilla, I had more crit than this. Every class had 5% base crit and at least 1 5% crit talent, so would be at least 10% naked. Now of course, crit on gear was way rarer, so you wouldn't scale as well.

I just think the plate classes (and any other class that may be effected by this) should have a 5% base crit. We don't get any agility to scale our crit like other classes do.

That would only put me at 11% in blues, which I don't think is inflated in any way.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
6235
Anyone remember how high our crit rates were 3 days after WOTLK's release?
Reply Quote
90 Human Mage
10015
12/08/2010 12:22 PMPosted by Ribbitlegion
The easiest example would be mages getting a three times multiplier, when certain conditions are met, in Tier1 frost. They are by no means difficult conditions to achieve. Most classes have large talented boosts but, there is far too much of a curve across all classes and specs.


Bear in mind that the new Shatter is "worse" than the old Shatter until we exceed 33.33% crit against non-Frozen targets. If a Mage had 7% crit in Wrath, he had a 57% chance to crit a Frozen target; in Cataclysm, he has a 21% chance.

This becomes more significant if you're talking about consecutive crits. If you had a 100% chance to crit with an Ice Lance against a frozen target at 80, you had a 100% chance to get three consecutive crits. If you have a 50% chance to crit against a frozen target at 85, you have a 12.5% chance to get three consecutive crits.

I put "worse" in quotes up there because even though under most circumstances the talent is weaker than it used to be, it's still better from a design perspective, because it makes crit rating into a desirable stat.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]