Guild Experience Change

85 Draenei Shaman
11840
Removing the guild XP component of Guild Achievements feels like an over-reaction. If those achievements are delivering too much Guild XP, reduce the amount they contribute. Maybe certain achievements can grant XP while some others do not.

For example, completing the Deadmines Guild Run achievement doesn't have to grant guild XP. Most guilds are going to overpower it in 5 minutes, and that alone isn't really worth any reward. But having a "Classic Dungeonmasters" meta-achievement including the Guild Runs for all the Classic dungeons WOULD be an achievement, and would be worth at least some guild XP. If the original amounts seemed too high, it's a number you can tune.

Guild achievements can be used to encourage teamwork and reward guilds for playing together. This thread has plenty of examples of people who've stated that the promise of guild achievements providing more than vanity points was a very compelling rallying call for them.

I'd really like to see a re-evaluation of this decision.
90 Human Death Knight
12550
If this has to be like this, can the guild achievements that give experience give like 20 levels worth? Because I really don't want to have to wait 4 months to have guild level 25 and have my Thunderfury mean NOTHING IN TERMS OF GUILD ADVANCEMENT
85 Night Elf Rogue
7945
I'd just like a coherent explanation of how the various caps in the guild achievement/ranking system. There's personal guild rep caps, guild ranking caps, stuff you do may or may not count towards guild achievements, caps on how much one person can contribute to an achievement per day...

It's confusing, poorly documented, and un-fun. I mean, really, two of us capped on how many critters we could contribute to Critter Kill Squad at 100 critters total today. Does it really need to take THAT long for a smallish guild to earn a baby armadillo pet? It seems like too much effort has gone into making this whole thing take a long period of time to accomplish and the goal of giving guilds fun things to work towards has gone out the window.
90 Human Mage
Nix
20875
Count me in the very, very disappointed group. That little boost from post-cap xp was going to really help our small and rebuilding guild, not too mention give us some incentive to achieve lots of things as a guild, not just the achievements with rewards.
90 Human Death Knight
12550

12/07/2010 8:34 PMPosted by Shardrell
I'd just like a coherent explanation of how the various caps in the guild achievement/ranking system. There's personal guild rep caps, guild ranking caps, stuff you do may or may not count towards guild achievements, caps on how much one person can contribute to an achievement per day...

It's confusing, poorly documented, and un-fun. I mean, really, two of us capped on how many critters we could contribute to Critter Kill Squad at 100 critters total today. Does it really need to take THAT long for a smallish guild to earn a baby armadillo pet? It seems like too much effort has gone into making this whole thing take a long period of time to accomplish and the goal of giving guilds fun things to work towards has gone out the window.



I'd Like to add that having guilds work together to get things for more than one person, like ICC and Ulduar Glory of the Raider, than just having one person benefit,Legendary Item, or having each person work on guild leveling by doing questing, which is what it is right now. Isn't the point of guild advancement to do it as a guild, rather than say okay go out and gather some supplies but no more than you can carry back in one trip each day and well try to reach the goal of X many supplies as fast as we can and if we get too many submissions for a day, than the extra is wasted.
Edited by Ranko on 12/7/2010 8:40 PM PST
Completely speechless. Just about everyone else in the thread has already expressed my sentiments. I just...wow. Now you don't even have to work together as a guild to level the guild. Everyone can just do their own thing and the guild levels up.
85 Draenei Shaman
8970
I was really really looking forward to getting my guild together to run all the old world content.

I was also really really afraid that the massive guilds on our server of hundreds of people would leave my little ten-active player guild in the dust and we'd never be anywhere as close as them.

Since Cata has come out, we've had two guys single-handedly raise our maximum guild experience for a day to 50%.

Two guys?

You mean my guild is leveling at the same rate as the 300-player strong guild hitting realm first 85's left and right?

lolwat.

And this is coming from a super casual player who was worried the hardcore players would get too much of an advantage and leave her guild struggling to even advance levels.

I don't like that we're equal with the best guilds on the server. We're not the best. Why are we with them?
85 Night Elf Druid
7660
I'm really torn on this. I'm in a small guild, and some of the achievements were going to be really tough to pull off. Some were grandfathered, others werent. It felt awkward. But we were going to try and get a few. I think the answer to this is to raise the daily cap for XP. Let the big guilds have SOME advantage, but not so much a smaller guild cant still progress steadily as well. Or maybe make some more perks that are tied directly to guild achievements.

I feel blizz is going to have to make a decision soon. I've felt since wrath came out, they are trying to make all things equal for all people. Challenging for hardcore, simple and accessible for casual. Same loot in both raids, same path to guild leveling etc etc. The fact of the matter is sooner or later you have to decide what you want this game to be.
I'm not sure why the answer was to remove the bonus xp entirely as opposed to making it require more per level. The lack of some tangible benefit to the achievements, even a small one, is going to greatly diminish their popularity.

As I'm sure you've noticed, the achievements people work the hardest for are the ones for which there is an actual reward (Glory of the Hero, title achievements, etc.). Taking it away is an enormous overreaction. Toning it down is a much better answer.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12365
I'm disgusted that such a thought even crosses Blizzards' minds. Every guild will just hit level 25 on the same day now, it will take no work at all to "level".
90 Gnome Mage
14905
12/07/2010 8:53 PMPosted by Epidra
Since Cata has come out, we've had two guys single-handedly raise our maximum guild experience for a day to 50%.

Two guys?

You mean my guild is leveling at the same rate as the 300-player strong guild hitting realm first 85's left and right?


Wanted to add another example to yours. Our old guild, on another server, just has left over alts and a few people that quit playing this summer. None of us were on that old server today playing, but one person who took a break was back. When I checked tonight, the guild was at 98% of the permitted XP gain for the day. One person. At this point, guild XP should only come from achievements and guild runs (based on the party make up requirements). At least then the guild is working together for something...not just one guy questing away.
12/07/2010 8:43 PMPosted by Thecheat
Now you don't even have to work together as a guild to level the guild. Everyone can just do their own thing and the guild levels up.


This is the biggest letdown. The guild does not need to cooperate or work as a team AT ALL to level in XP. Such a let down. Our guild was soooo excited about the guild leveling process.
85 Night Elf Druid
6520
Horrible horrible change, and I'm in a small guild of about 12 people total that are pretty casual. The group was really excited about working together and contributing as a guild. This just seems like a knee jerk reaction and waaay over the top. The extra time we put into achievements together should benefit the guild, however small.
90 Gnome Mage
9590
I'm okay with this guild achievement change, but I do think that, while a great idea to remain with a guild and help it grow, the leveling of a guild may lead players to pursue new guilds simply for perks. Would this be bias toward power-hungry guilds? Perhaps, but it does create a true "reputation" for guilds of a certain realm.
90 Orc Warlock
0
Coming from a casual raid guild that's planned for this, gotten really excited about this, and still only managed to get to level 2.33 before being "fixed" back to 1.67, this has created almost instant enthusiasm burnout. We've gone from a system where we can try and band together to get perks a bit faster for our group of ~50 core players, to a progression system that we may as well just create a timer for.

Please, Blizzard, do something to salvage this system. I'm sure it could be min/maxed, and maybe there's a legitimate problem. But couldn't you at least require higher guild reputation for contributing to achievements, or lower the xp rewards or something?
88 Night Elf Rogue
7405
12/07/2010 3:59 PMPosted by Norkol
Not to sound rude, but I'm going to be honest. Blizzard shouldn't be putting 2 person guilds into the equation here. A very, very large majority of the guilds in the game are much higher than 2 players. 2 isn't enough to do dungeons, raids, etc, and therefore the very small "boyfriend and girlfriend" guilds, or whatever your case may be, simply aren't viable. Guild achievements or not, the game is meant for 5, 10, or 25 players, save for Arena teams. You're not even able to create a guild without a Guild Master and 4 additional signatures, A guild should be defined as a group of people large enough to participate in content.

I'm not saying smaller guilds or bad, or anything. I have several level 80 non-bank characters in their own guild, but for the purpose of being an actual guild, anything under 5 simply isn't viable, and shouldn't be given the extra consideration for these types of cases.


I totally disagree. This game has always been built on the foundation that there was never any problem having a small guild and there weren't any tangible negatives for doing so. My guild has been around since the beginning of WoW and over the many years people have come and gone and the size has dropped dramatically, but there was never any reason to disband my guild. This new system now puts some kind of tangible measurement on guild size and I think that is simply not good. It encourages people to hop to larger guilds and that kinda goes against what they were going for in the first place.

Anyway, I'm honestly not sure how I feel about the change, but I'm all for making the system size neutral.


-EDarkness
85 Troll Shaman
4625
Thank you for this change!

Balance is key to enjoying any game.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
8535
12/07/2010 10:18 PMPosted by Crazymarmot
Thank you for this change!

Balance is key to enjoying any game.

So you would agree that everyone deserves the same opportunities despite the difference in effort put into experiencing them? Why not give everyone the ZG tiger mount for free than instead of running it 100+ times for a chance that it could drop. Same thing with the Lich King - didn't partake in a raid group grinding for months, working as a team, to get to the final boss in ICC? No sweat, we'll give you the Kingslayer title for free so you can at least feel like you earned it.

Blizzard has made a big mistake implementing this change. Those who are willing to put in the time and effort in order to get the rare achievements and titles deserve their rewards. If you don't care enough to do the same, or don't have enough time to do it - sorry, but it wasn't meant for you in the first place.
88 Night Elf Rogue
7405
12/07/2010 10:39 PMPosted by Gyra
So you would agree that everyone deserves the same opportunities despite the difference in effort put into experiencing them? Why not give everyone the ZG tiger mount for free than instead of running it 100+ times for a chance that it could drop. Same thing with the Lich King - didn't partake in a raid group grinding for months, working as a team, to get to the final boss in ICC? No sweat, we'll give you the Kingslayer title for free so you can at least feel like you earned it.


I think the achievement is reward enough. It doesn't need to affect the balance of power.
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