Guild Experience Change

85 Draenei Paladin
8095
While I disagree with the decision to change this and the reasoning why, in that guilds were doing exactly this on the beta servers, I do understand it and can attempt to see it from your perspective. However, now with the daily cap at roughly 6M/Day, it's going to take guilds months to finish out guild leveling. I feel that perhaps, as a sort of compromise, doubling the possible amount earned daily would allow not the same pace, but a faster less grindy pace to the levelling experience.

Side note: I really wish you would reconsider the achievements, or at least allow those of us who went out and did some achievements before the nerf to retain that experience. My guild stopped our personal levelling to due just enough achievements to get to GL 2, for the XP boost, but now we've wasted about an hour and a half of our time due to this change.
100 Night Elf Druid
13290
Hey, while we're on the subject of guilds.

You have gained the maximum amount of guild reputation allowed this week.

Wait

You have gained the maximum amount of guild reputation allowed this week.

In case you didn't know

You have gained the maximum amount of guild reputation allowed this week.

Didn't hear that? Oh, you'll see it *EVERY REP GAIN FOR THE ENTIRE WEEK*.

Because people won't get rep that often right?

You have gained the maximum amount of guild reputation allowed this week.
85 Undead Mage
3005
Surely a better fix, rather than removing guild achievement XP all together is just include it as part of the XP that is counted towards the cap?

Why remove it all together? If it's part of the daily cap, that prevents guilds steam rolling the perks system and it also allows guilds to use these achievements at a later date to earn more guild XP once the initial rush of 80-85 XP tails off and guilds are stuck for ways to get access to the other perks.

Perhaps this change was just to plug the leak and they'll do the above in a patch.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
4300
I actually agree with this change, are you really condoning the fact that some guilds hit Level 25 in one day because they plotted ahead and horded achievements?

While I can understand the concern of small guilds, at the same tiem this was implemented to protect them.
Large guilds with hundreds of people suddenly had a huge advantage and if your a serious player you would have to seriously think about leaving your own guild and joining one of the bigger guilds on your server to be competitive and get the most out of the guild perk system.

While I understand why people are a bit upset, it almost sounds a bit like sour g#!*@s because the system can no longer be exploited in our favor.
80 Tauren Druid
1030
This change has really left me deflated to say the least. I am in no hurry to quest to 85 and fight all the morons for mobs, so I was really looking forward to getting the guild leveled up. Now, I'm sort of aimlessly flying around mining. We hit the XP cap probably less the an hour after release. I hit the guild rep cap a few hours after that. So, that's it? Guess I'll long on my bank alt and hit the daily cap with my bank guild....
85 Blood Elf Hunter
7245
12/07/2010 3:22 PMPosted by Drayven
I actually agree with this change, are you really condoning the fact that some guilds hit Level 25 in one day because they plotted ahead and horded achievements?

While I can understand the concern of small guilds, at the same tiem this was implemented to protect them.
Large guilds with hundreds of people suddenly had a huge advantage and if your a serious player you would have to seriously think about leaving your own guild and joining one of the bigger guilds on your server to be competitive and get the most out of the guild perk system.

While I understand why people are a bit upset, it almost sounds a bit like sour g#!*@s because the system can no longer be exploited in our favor.


From what I've been reading a lot of people posting here are from smaller guilds. And their reason for being upset is that when you remove the XP from the guild achieves they do not benefit the guild when you complete them so what's the point of having them in the first place.
100 Undead Priest
18310
There is a reason I gave up playing EVE Online in favor of WoW and it was this sort of behavior. EVE used to make so many changes to the Live game that if felt like we were constantly playing a beta.

Here's my suggested new testing philosophy any time you want to implement a cap (which in and of itself is a poor idea IMHO):
Do Not Artificially Raise The Accumulation Of Points!

If you want to see if there is balance in a system, you cannot skew an input. That's Experimentation 101. At the very least one beta build should have had the "in live" progression numbers so you could see how they'd look in actual practice.

This change has given unfair advantage to people who could, unlike most of us, have the day, from midnight on, free to play the game and get as much done as possible. It is unfair to all those guilds who had the foresight to plan ahead and execute their playtime in such a way as to maximize the bonuses you published well in advance of release.

I understand that as the owner of the property you have the right to change any thing at any time, but please do not penalize your ENTIRE player base because a few well-man, far-thinking guilds outwitted you. Give them the props they deserve and let them get the Realm First: Guild Level 25--they earned it!
85 Draenei Shaman
4750
12/07/2010 2:51 PMPosted by Ottobot
Blizz. You read the threads from those BS 3-man guilds complaining about guild leveling and small guilds and what did you do, you caved. GG. I hope those threads drown in posts from ppl in real guilds now. I am personally thoroughly disappointed.


Actually, I'm in a two-person guild and this completely sucks for us, so I'm not really sure what some of these "three person guilds" you are referring to were talking about :( While we knew we couldn't get most of the achievements we could get a few and they would have helped out towards our guild XP - now all we can do is quest on all our toons and maybe form a crappy 2v2 team :( I was really looking forward to some of these achievements and now I don't see the point in them.
85 Undead Mage
3005
12/07/2010 3:25 PMPosted by Darkmonkey

From what I've been reading a lot of people posting here are from smaller guilds. And their reason for being upset is that when you remove the XP from the guild achieves they do not benefit the guild when you complete them so what's the point of having them in the first place.


So make guild achievements part of the daily cap. So on those slow days when no one expects to hit the cap via normal individual play, run some content as a guild. Simple.
100 Night Elf Druid
12625
As a guild leader of a very industrious guild this saddens me to no end. Why take this away? Guildies getting together and busting through together to earn more for the guild makes sense and a well deserved reward promotes guild moral. Guild achievements take more coordination and cooperation that individual achieves. If the guild works towards it why would it not count toward guild lvl?

Why even bother having guild achieves if they are only vanity?

It saddens me that you are not addressing the exploiters that have already reached 85 (and you know that they shouldn't have been able to reach that in under 12 hours) and you are busy adjusting guild lvls instead for those honest peeps out there working hard for their guild.

85 Blood Elf Paladin
5530
As several people have said, I also agree that lowering XP gained from achievements etc and also raising the amount of XP needed for each level would be a good idea.

I understand that you do not wish to hear a lot of Q.Q, but hearing that guilds were stripped of their levels, and members of those guilds were given advantages that others do not have anymore (the 5% xp bonus) hardly seems fair.

I appreciate the fact that Blizzard is attempting to balance the Guild Progression for every size and type of guild, but this is extreme and hardly constructive.
85 Orc Rogue
5065
12/07/2010 3:22 PMPosted by Drayven
I actually agree with this change, are you really condoning the fact that some guilds hit Level 25 in one day because they plotted ahead and horded achievements?

While I can understand the concern of small guilds, at the same tiem this was implemented to protect them.
Large guilds with hundreds of people suddenly had a huge advantage and if your a serious player you would have to seriously think about leaving your own guild and joining one of the bigger guilds on your server to be competitive and get the most out of the guild perk system.

While I understand why people are a bit upset, it almost sounds a bit like sour g#!*@s because the system can no longer be exploited in our favor.


Coming from a small guild, this isn't protecting us. The guild perks are just that, perks. Larger guilds will definitely get their benefit much sooner, and while that will be an influence to someone's decision to join a guild, most smaller guilds are small because they're a tight-knit group of friends. Nobody in my guild, to my knowledge, would even consider leaving us for another guild because they're level 25 and we're not. Why? They're all real life friends, family, or close in-game friends with their own family involved. This isn't true in all cases, but for the most part, if a guild has survived for a while being small, it'll grow even closer when they're all bonding doing these achievements and progressing their guild.

This system can hardly be "exploited". The point of guild leveling is to do things as a guild. Just because some of the bigger guilds in the world are able to get together, as a guild, and get these done much faster than the rest of the guilds in the world doesn't mean it's exploiting. It's just inspiration for smaller guilds to come together and achieve goals that they all want to achieve.

My guild didn't want to get all of these achievements done quickly just so we could get the perks. We were looking forward to coming together and do strange, difficult, or time consuming things, as a guild, and feel like we're contributing, to the guild.
90 Night Elf Priest
9025
12/07/2010 3:14 PMPosted by Karoc
However, now with the daily cap at roughly 6M/Day, it's going to take guilds months to finish out guild leveling.


I'm pretty sure that having guilds take months to finish out the guild levelling process has always been the intent. I don't see a problem with that as their goal, and I understand needing to make a change if they don't see that goal being met. However, I would rather have something that can be influenced by the guild working *together*; I would much rather drop daily XP gains entirely (or drop them significantly), set a weekly achievement point cap that ends up on the same level, and let guilds level through doing things together, rather than by leveling through quests/doing things solo.

Figure an average of 20 million XP/level. Currently, they're talking about 83 days of levelling at the daily XP cap. Okay, so cut that in 5 -- basically, this means that if you have one person levelling 80-85 at any given time, you're going to cap out, but who cares. Then, add a 40 million XP weekly cap to achievement gains. Same basic cap. Set up the achievements so that: 1. If you complete 2-3 hard achievements per week, you cap out. 2. If you complete a dozen less hard achievements (old world dungeons), you cap out.

In order to make up for guilds hitting the cap and not getting credit a certain week, let guilds repeat the achievements for more XP. (This is harder, I understand, but something like this becomes necessary: You have to have *some* time limit cap or guilds will have 25 the first day, no matter how much pain they go through, and as soon as you have a cap, people will bump against it.) So instead of achievements being "Do once, Done", they can be repeated from week to week. Some guilds will find what they consider the 'easy' achievements, and use those to level, but again, who cares.

Some achievements -- Legendaries, and other things that are 'one time' because they are count-based -- can evade the cap, since they are one time events.

The only problem that I see with this is that a guild which does *no* achievements at all as part of guild levelling will take about 5 times longer than they will now. However, I don't consider that a major flaw; guild advancement should favor guilds working together to do things.

Another way to do this would just be to provide a very *small* amount of XP -- say, 1%-5% of a level, depending on difficulty -- for every sufficiently hard achieve that a guild does. This isn't going to be game breaking -- 1% of a level shaves approximately 1 day off of guild levelling, 5% shaving a week off. (This is probably similar to the 'nerf XP gains from achieves by 95%'.) These feel much less game breaking, and seem a lot more practical than removing the incentive for guilds to play as a group while keeping the same approximately timeline for guilds achieving level 25.
I'm extremely disappointed with this change.

My guild had set aside a night a week to get guild achievements together, with events such as 5 man dungeon races, city raids, old school raids and fishing contests.

Now so much of the motivation will be gone, except for a handful of achievements locked to tangible rewards. I'd rather see the guild experience per level requirement go up than remove the achievements experience bonus. What was having a really positive effect on our guild has been removed for the sake of levelling rates.
85 Undead Mage
8730
This is perhaps one of the worse changes Blizzrd has thought up.
I'm the GM of a Larger guild with 100+ Casual non riading Members. We have always been a raiding guild that has a active non raiding members in it. One thing taht every casual player was excited about was guild leveling, and feeling like they were helping the guild instead of just cheering on the raiders.

Now what do they have? Nothing. A bank alt guild will be bale to reach level 25 the same day as them. Once again they are back to cheering on the raid team.

I wont even goito the hours of planning,fourms post, matriels, etc that we put in.

It pains me to think that the FOS for Realm 1st 25 man guild will be completly random.

As many have staed in teh thread, what is the point of "Guild Edition" Achievements? There is none. Reaping old content that we have done 1,000's (collectively) times isnt fun an interesting.

You have really screwed up a wonderful idea. Now the whole Guild advancement system is a complete joke.

I bet you please CALL A DEV MEETING AND OPEN THIS BACK UP FOR DISCUSSION

When was the last time the wow community agree on one subject? Never in my 6 years have a seen everyone agree. I know the devs cant agree with this.
85 Orc Rogue
5065
12/07/2010 3:31 PMPosted by Dankz

When was the last time the wow community agree on one subject? Never in my 6 years have a seen everyone agree. I know the devs cant agree with this.


Real ID on the forums was the first and last time this ever happened.

Real ID on the forums was reverted, thank god.

I'm really hoping more people chip their thoughts here. Would be nice to see the devs reconsider, clearly we aren't thrilled.
85 Blood Elf Hunter
7245
12/07/2010 3:28 PMPosted by Collected


So make guild achievements part of the daily cap. So on those slow days when no one expects to hit the cap via normal individual play, run some content as a guild. Simple.


Well that could work. However some people could see that as "why bother doing anything else to level the guild"

There needs to be something in place that gets people wanting to do them.

Maybe having a 2 separate caps one that you can work towards only with achievements and the other is all the other meathods.

So say you reach the 600k cap for questing battlegrounds etc. And then maybe another 600k(or some other number) that you can get to with achievements. That leaves the incentive while still giving blizz that limiting feeling that they for some reason enjoy.
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