Guild Experience Change

90 Tauren Druid
13215
WOW 0.0 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seems you stepped in it this time Blizz big time...... The first blue post is less than a few hours old and already all the posts are pist, angery, disappointed, and let down. We want this reviewed and either changed back or at least revised.
85 Undead Mage
3005
12/07/2010 3:36 PMPosted by Darkmonkey

There needs to be something in place that gets people wanting to do them.

Maybe having a 2 separate caps one that you can work towards only with achievements and the other is all the other meathods.


Now that's an idea.. I like that one. One cap for individual XP gains, one cap for guild XP gains.. two caps per day.
90 Human Warlock
16680
So you removed the only part of guild leveling that actually rewarded the guild working as a team unit to meet a goal. Why not just give the perks to everyone as subscription veterans rewards, because that is basically what the system is now. Capped leveling and Guild Rep at crazily low levels that does nothing to encourage or inspire teamwork.

And the reasoning given! In beta it was brought up a s a concern many many times, and we were told by a Dev that it was very intentional that Guild Achievements would ignore the daily cap because they were designed to give large chunks of Guild Experience and they felt it was punitive to just let that go to waste.

This decision is just all around terrible, and it makes the players feel crappy by taking something we worked together to earn away from us.
90 Human Paladin
14995
I think a better idea would be to keep guild achievements as giving guild experience, but have them also add to the daily guild experience limit. This way it encourages more people to do them and gives a similar benefit to just gaining guild experience the other ways.
90 Dwarf Priest
6345
I have to agree that the changes aren't a good idea.

My guild was looking forward to completing the achievements. We're a smaller, very casual guild that doesn't raid regularly or PvP regularly. We're 5-man dungeon runners and achievement hounds, and that was really going to be the main two ways that we would be able to level our guild. But we were pumped about getting our guild leveled up.

Now? There's no motivation to really do any of the achievements. Sure the pets/mounts/etc are nice, but... it's just lost something now. There definitely won't be any sense of urgency. Now we pretty much just have to make sure we cap our XP each day, which to me is just as soulless as running your one heroic a day for raid points.

I'm not going ballistic and threatening to cancel... but we're very disappointed.
Edited by Betsea on 12/7/2010 3:45 PM PST
80 Draenei Shaman
1510
This disappoints me.
85 Tauren Druid
4635
you couldn't have made it to level 2 in even two days time sinc ehte max is 65k and to get ot level 2 you need 165k
90 Night Elf Hunter
12370
We were very much looking forward to doing guild achievements to help with guild experience. Now it seems any 2 person guild would be able to get the same daily amount as a 250 person guild. Very disappointed, I hope Blizz changes this back.
66 Night Elf Hunter
830
Here's what you do, Blizzard.

a) Restore the system whereby guild achievements produce a significant guild XP boost overtop of daily limits
b) Adjust the amount of experience required per level upward. Distort the curve to account for easily obtained achievements, if you must.
c) Adjust a few item-oriented perks downward a few levels to make casual guilds happy.

What you gain
- Guild-oriented goals stay strong. "Run a bunch of max-level instances" is not really a goal. Assigning teams to level professions and/or race+class combos is more interesting and guilds will actually have a decent excuse to do it OTHER THAN sheer boredom.
- Realm first Level 25 will be more than an x-way tie amongst the guilds that field y number of active players.
- You don't yank the carpet from underneath a bunch of folks who were counting on this system the way it had been tested and deployed.

What you lose
- Casual guilds may level more slowly than you'd originally planned for. Yes, they want to see the shiny guild number go upward just like everyone else.
80 Night Elf Priest
3115
12/07/2010 3:47 PMPosted by Tripyr
you couldn't have made it to level 2 in even two days time sinc ehte max is 65k and to get ot level 2 you need 165k


Prior to this change, Paragon was at level 6. In fact, according to the Armory, they still are at the moment: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/guild/lightnings-blade/paragon/achievement#15088:a4943

This is because with achievements, they were able to level past the cap easily. Things like Class Act (having an 85 of each class), heroic kills, and more, made it possible to level their guild very quickly. (Note that they also had 35+ 85s as of 8 hours ago, so this fast advancement isn't limited to their achievements/guild leveling.)
90 Human Warrior
13600
I have to agree, why bother leveling a guild up? I mean majority of guilds will have the lvl 25 guild at the same time, as well as most people hitting the cap even in smaller guilds quickly. What is the point of guild leveling?

Player leveling teaches us about the class, to experience the lore involved in the zones, with a culmination of being in end game to get better gear.

Guild leveling is about unity of the guild, to bring the guild together in order to accomplish goals (AKA get experience/rep/achievements). But with the very low cap, 5 players questing can reach it easily in a day, guild achievements are.. lol especially since only people in the guild can see it, very few of them which warrant any kind of reward for completing. They are supposed to be something that guild works for to make guild life easier.. now its just something that will be unlocked as a side effect after a few months of playing, you don't have to strive for it, it will just come due to time, not due to effort.

Giving exp for achievements shows those that are dedicated to making their guild amazing, as opposed to just some place to get raid members, you took that away from us. If your going to do this, just take guild experience away, and put a timer for guilds before perks become active, essentially, that's what you did already.
88 Night Elf Rogue
7405
12/07/2010 3:28 PMPosted by Narella
Actually, I'm in a two-person guild and this completely sucks for us, so I'm not really sure what some of these "three person guilds" you are referring to were talking about :( While we knew we couldn't get most of the achievements we could get a few and they would have helped out towards our guild XP - now all we can do is quest on all our toons and maybe form a crappy 2v2 team :( I was really looking forward to some of these achievements and now I don't see the point in them.


Actually, I'm in a two person guild and most of these achievements are totally out of our range. We can't run old dungeons because 4 of the 5 people must be guildies, so the easiest ones to get would be next to impossible without adding more people. So this system they just hotfixed actually works in our favor since we'll at least be able to stay relatively close to the huge guilds. It'll still take a long time to really get anywhere, but I can see why they made the change.


-EDarkness
85 Undead Mage
11990
12/07/2010 2:09 PMPosted by Iphigenia
Seriously? We've been planning out these achievements and trying to work toward the feat of strength for realm first level 25. Now every guild is just going to hit level 25 on the same day?


Exactly. Shame on your (and my) guild for planning ahead.
Every guild will easily hit the exp max every day, and it'll just be a matter of having the most people loggging in as early as possible on the 25th day.

And if Blizzard is endorsing guilds being 2 people large, well that's just stupid.
Edited by Kelroxor on 12/7/2010 3:55 PM PST
72 Human Warrior
6625
12/07/2010 3:51 PMPosted by Desi
12/07/2010 3:28 PMPosted by Narella
Actually, I'm in a two-person guild and this completely sucks for us, so I'm not really sure what some of these "three person guilds" you are referring to were talking about :( While we knew we couldn't get most of the achievements we could get a few and they would have helped out towards our guild XP - now all we can do is quest on all our toons and maybe form a crappy 2v2 team :( I was really looking forward to some of these achievements and now I don't see the point in them.


Actually, I'm in a two person guild and most of these achievements are totally out of our range. We can't run old dungeons because 4 of the 5 people must be guildies, so the easiest ones to get would be next to impossible without adding more people. So this system they just hotfixed actually works in our favor since we'll at least be able to stay relatively close to the huge guilds. It'll still take a long time to really get anywhere, but I can see why they made the change.


-EDarkness


Why should a two person guild be able to stay close to even a guild of 25 people, though? Your guild shouldn't even exist, based on the requirements to form a guild, let alone actually keep up with a guild more than 12 times your size.
85 Orc Rogue
5065
12/07/2010 3:51 PMPosted by Desi
12/07/2010 3:28 PMPosted by Narella
Actually, I'm in a two-person guild and this completely sucks for us, so I'm not really sure what some of these "three person guilds" you are referring to were talking about :( While we knew we couldn't get most of the achievements we could get a few and they would have helped out towards our guild XP - now all we can do is quest on all our toons and maybe form a crappy 2v2 team :( I was really looking forward to some of these achievements and now I don't see the point in them.


Actually, I'm in a two person guild and most of these achievements are totally out of our range. We can't run old dungeons because 4 of the 5 people must be guildies, so the easiest ones to get would be next to impossible without adding more people. So this system they just hotfixed actually works in our favor since we'll at least be able to stay relatively close to the huge guilds. It'll still take a long time to really get anywhere, but I can see why they made the change.


-EDarkness


Not to sound rude, but I'm going to be honest. Blizzard shouldn't be putting 2 person guilds into the equation here. A very, very large majority of the guilds in the game are much higher than 2 players. 2 isn't enough to do dungeons, raids, etc, and therefore the very small "boyfriend and girlfriend" guilds, or whatever your case may be, simply aren't viable. Guild achievements or not, the game is meant for 5, 10, or 25 players, save for Arena teams. You're not even able to create a guild without a Guild Master and 4 additional signatures, A guild should be defined as a group of people large enough to participate in content.

I'm not saying smaller guilds or bad, or anything. I have several level 80 non-bank characters in their own guild, but for the purpose of being an actual guild, anything under 5 simply isn't viable, and shouldn't be given the extra consideration for these types of cases.
90 Night Elf Druid
TAO
9180
As the GM of a raiding mid-size guild that is a tight-knit group of members that are both raider and non-raiding members, I am surprised and disappointed by this change. The whole idea behind the achievements for the guild was to give folks a sense of belonging and contributing to the guild. This philosophy has changed apparently?

While I can understand the reasons behind the change it is my opinion that this was handled extremely poorly. To drop this kind of bomb on the game players is tantamount to telling us, "We really don't care what you guys think." which we all know (hope) is not true. There are much better ways to have adjusted the mistake in the XP gains, whether that be along the lines of capping daily / weekly cheevo gains or by allowing x number of cheevos to count towards guild XP, without the XP gain, the achievements that have no tangible reward (such as a vanity pet, etc) will not increase morale, or help to promote a sense of belonging within the guild. I believe that it will, however, place a sense of non-achievement upon the non-raiding members of my guild due to the loss of a tangible way of saying, "I helped make this happen in a meaningful way!"

I do not agree with this move, and feel that the devs need to reconsider their take on the issue and readdress a better way of handling this. There have been many constructive suggestions on how this could be handled (yes, I have read every post on this subject so far, and will continue to do so) and so I fail to see how the devs could ignore the public uproar that has happened in a short time over this decision.

It is my sincere hope that this subject is re-evaluated and revised soon.

Jabouty
Guild Master - <TAO>
Eldre'Thalas
85 Orc Warrior
11750
12/07/2010 3:36 PMPosted by Norkol


Real ID on the forums was the first and last time this ever happened.

Real ID on the forums was reverted, thank god.

I'm really hoping more people chip their thoughts here. Would be nice to see the devs reconsider, clearly we aren't thrilled.


The difference about Real ID was that it also made mainstream news.
85 Dwarf Warrior
6070
I can't help but say it; way to punish the little guy.

Have you run any numbers to see the deleterious effect this will have on smaller guilds?

For example, those of us that only run 5-15 members online at most...my guild was seriously counting on the achievements to be able to see any decent guild level this year.

Have you considered how this will effect the social/casual guilds? We'll get a lot of the achievements, but this change will add months and months to our guild leveling...who knows, it may well add a year...have you run the numbers on the effect of this change?

Who cares if the addicts and overachievers ding out GL25 in a 10 days? I would surmise that the community as a whole doesn't.

Ultimately, your solution seems seriously ill conceived and exceptionally short sighted.

I know we desire to take away the "easy mode" that this game has become...but this isn't part of that illness. This time, the development team needs to consider detaching the ego from their creation, and give the players what they were told they would receive.
Edited by Thorden on 12/7/2010 4:03 PM PST
85 Human Priest
5150
This is a really upsetting change. This was the part of Cataclysm that my guild was most excited about. We've been buzzing about it for months. It DOES feel like a bait and switch. This was a huge, unique and creative feature that we were so, so excited about. It's been sold to us and talked about by Blizzard for a long time now. And then, after we've spent a long time planning achievement runs and looking forward to it, after the game is released and purchased, you pulled the rug out from under us. That's pretty crappy.

There is no real point to guild achievements anymore at all. That's sad. It was the most exciting thing I think the game has ever seen. Now our guild is no more accomplished than my bank alt's guild.
85 Undead Mage
3005
12/07/2010 4:00 PMPosted by Jabouty

It is my sincere hope that this subject is re-evaluated and revised soon.


I suspect it will be. I have a feeling todays change was a "Umm.. THAT wasn't supposed to happen..." type quick adjustment before the damage was too big to reverse. I hope they include guild achievements as part of the daily cap at the very least. At least then they become viable again in some form. It does concern me tho that this has happened. Not what you want to be thinking about on day 1 of a new expansion.
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