No AoE damage for Hpally/Rsham?

90 Blood Elf Paladin
4900
I'd like to think that Holy Paladins not having an AoE damage ability was an oversight. But now that Resto is loosing chain lightning, it looks like it is not.

What are your thoughts on this? Consecration and Holy Wrath were nice abilities to have while leveling. It's not as if they did good damage, but it was something. Loosing them brought about a noticeable reduction to Quality of Life.
Edited by Tírelle on 6/18/2014 9:55 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Paladin
17470
Relevant discussion: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/12504790411

I don't care, personally. Also, Healing priests are losing the damage component to their T90 talents. Not sure if they are retaining Mind Sear (I'd hope not).

Other than MWs, then, no healer should be able to do much in the way of aoe damage. Personally I'm in the camp of being perfectly fine (more than fine) with healers not being able to do considerable amounts of damage.

Also, in WoD, offspec gear will be much easier, as your gear will automatically turn into suiting your spec when you swap specs.
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90 Night Elf Druid
0
Its not like Concentration or holy wrath or chain lightning where amazing DPS by any means.

I think it sucks playing a holy pally in BG with no aoe. Holy wrath would be amazing.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
4900
They weren't ever amazing dps, and I was alright with that. But there were something. It sucks going into BGs and soloing without any AoE damage.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
15060
06/18/2014 10:29 PMPosted by Piamette
I don't care, personally. Also, Healing priests are losing the damage component to their T90 talents. Not sure if they are retaining Mind Sear (I'd hope not).


Holy Priests, at least, still have Mind Sear on the current Alpha build.
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90 Night Elf Priest
5210
They'll probably be pruning that out next. These patch notes are really ruining my week.
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90 Night Elf Druid
19245
Resto Shaman still have damage through Fire Elemental (1 minute duration/5 minute cooldown). I think they removed the damage component from Mistweaver Spinning Crane Kick with the last patch note updates. Priests still have Mind Sear (and putting SW:P on multiple mobs) and Druids still have Hurricane (and putting Moonfire on multiple mobs).

That said, there's no compelling reason why healing specs need an AoE ability. They have never really cared that much about leveling in a healing spec. It isn't supposed to be efficient or viable to solo level in a healing spec. They are going to care even less in WoD when gear switches stats when you respec meaning that even HPallies/Monks don't get screwed by not having an offspec set.
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90 Draenei Paladin
17470
06/20/2014 02:24 PMPosted by Tiberriaa
I think they removed the damage component from Mistweaver Spinning Crane Kick with the last patch note updates.

Yeah it seems like in Serpent stance it does healing but not damage, and in Crane it presumably does damage but not healing.

06/20/2014 02:24 PMPosted by Tiberriaa
That said, there's no compelling reason why healing specs need an AoE ability

Agreed. The only time I cared for one (and only a very minor amount was needed) is in that quest where you have to heal/protect Wrathion at the temple of the crane, for the epic cloak. He spawns a bunch of oozes occasionally. Holy Prism was sufficient for dealing with them.
...So yeah, it's not really a situation that arises often.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
4900
I don't see why some of you think this us is unreasonable. Before MoP, Holy Paladins had Holy Wrath and consecration. That didn't make us overpowered with damage. Rather, it allowed us to contribute to damage in certain situations, and gave us sufficient quality of life to solo.
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90 Human Paladin
13130
06/20/2014 07:21 PMPosted by Tírelle
I don't see why some of you think this us is unreasonable. Before MoP, Holy Paladins had Holy Wrath and consecration. That didn't make us overpowered with damage. Rather, it allowed us to contribute to damage in certain situations, and gave us sufficient quality of life to solo.


Not one person in here has said it is unreasonable. What they have said is it doesn't matter. The damage provided was neither impressive or useful, ever (not even for soloing). Gear changes in WoD will mean that you will have no legitimate reason to not be using a DPS spec when grinding/soloing.

06/20/2014 11:36 AMPosted by Tírelle
They weren't ever amazing dps, and I was alright with that. But there were something. It sucks going into BGs and soloing without any AoE damage.


While it does make node guarding more difficult the better question is why are you defending a node alone in a BG? As far as soloing - it is a healing spec the intention was never that it would be an efficient method of soloing, you have a DPS spec that covers that.
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90 Goblin Shaman
14310
what resto shaman uses chain lightning? ever?
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90 Night Elf Priest
11440
06/21/2014 08:40 AMPosted by Munkeechick
what resto shaman uses chain lightning? ever?


LOL
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90 Human Paladin
7125
06/18/2014 09:54 PMPosted by Tírelle
I'd like to think that Holy Paladins not having an AoE damage ability was an oversight. But now that Resto is loosing chain lightning, it looks like it is not.


Couple of things I'd like to note

First, it was kind of an oversight; in MoP's beta, the spell that eventually evolved into Denounce was originally intended to be AoE, and yes, it was still our main nuke at the time. When your main nuke is AoE, you don't need any other AoE abilities. A mid-to-late-beta change made it single-target instead of AoE, and by that time, Blizzard didn't seem to care enough about a lack of AoE damage tools in holy paladins' kits to do anything about it.

Second---I'd been hoping with all my posting about this issue that Blizzard would bring Holy paladins up to the same level other healers were at (in the area of AoE damage, that is). Now, it seems more like Blizzard wants to drag other healers down to our level! ...Not how I wanted this inequality to be solved!
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
4900
My thoughts exactly Longwriter. The gap between heal/tank damage and dps specializations is a little high as is. In WoD this is going to get a lot worse I feel.
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Maybe they are finally figuring out that the majority of healers don't want to contribute dmg (crosses fingers), they want to heal! It seems like they are shifting away from their previous thoughts that healers should be trying to contriubte dps (even though they only gave monks and disc an efficient way to do so). I'm guessing their goal is to leave healing to healers and dps to dpsers and likely with even less contribution from tanks.

I don't really see what removing this stuff will accomplish though since it's not even worth using in raids as is and is a minor QoL loss. It would be awkward not having aoe to at least kill low level stuff if you were trying to kill a lot of low level stuff in a healing spec. However, they seem to be pruning out a lot of stuff and this stuff isn't as bothersome as some of the other things going imo.
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90 Night Elf Druid
19245
06/20/2014 07:21 PMPosted by Tírelle
I don't see why some of you think this us is unreasonable. Before MoP, Holy Paladins had Holy Wrath and consecration. That didn't make us overpowered with damage. Rather, it allowed us to contribute to damage in certain situations, and gave us sufficient quality of life to solo.


Because healing specs don't need "quality of life to solo". That quality of life comes from the dual spec option and now in WoD the gear switching option. Healing specs are not intended to be anything approaching efficient at solo leveling/solo doing dailies. If they tune mob health to the level where healing specs (that usually have 20%-40% of the DPS of an actual DPS) don't take forever to kill things, they completely trivialize it for DPS specs. This isn't something that the developers need to waste development time on; there is a perfectly acceptable and viable in game solution for this problem - switch to a DPS spec for those activities.

On top of that, they are in the process of pruning spells and significantly cutting down the amount of spell book and action bar clutter across all specs. There is exactly 0 chance that they will add a new Holy Paladin AoE DPS spell given their current design goals. You may as well give up on the idea.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
4900
I don't intend to give up until Warlords of Draenor hits. :)

I'm asking for reasonable support-type damage for healers. We had this during cataclysm, and you didn't see any healers complaining about that.

An example of the opposite version of this, would be the nice support heals that Ret is capable of giving in PVP.

In the end, everybody should have access to some type of basic AoE ability. The Holy Paladins don't have cluttered tool kits, actually. With all the removals going around, we have plenty of room for an AoE damage ability.

Either way, this isn't going to hurt you. It will either 1. Improve quality your quality of life, or 2. Have no effect.
Edited by Tírelle on 6/22/2014 7:22 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
8065
I'm still alright. Spirited Crane stance, SCK for days ;)
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8 Dwarf Priest
0
for the people who have never been stuck (read: in combat) in a healing spec, and had some amount of damage, either single target or Aoe, at your fingertips, save you even 1 second of time, of your life, to speed things up

then either you weren't paying attention or you have had very limited gaming experience.

there were lots of times my friends needed a healer for farming old content (for example), and i could do that as well as offer a little bit of damage to help us all get to our objective faster. and that's really what this is all about. sometimes you are the healer - you're needed to be the healer. and so you get into combat as the healer. and there can be lots of adds.

now i know that some of you, your dps friends are probably all perfect

and do the most damage ever done in the universe

and never need help doing anything and hell, just have you along to heal, because that's all you're ever good for

or shucks, maybe you just go dps spec too because you're perfect just like they are

but your life aint the life of the entire player base.
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06/21/2014 08:40 AMPosted by Munkeechick
what resto shaman uses chain lightning? ever?


Excuse me, http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zArK7Xk9YDtCZMBP#type=damage-done&target=176&source=139

Really though healers haven't "needed" to do AEdps for a while now, with the exception of Pally and MW monk there hasn't been a reason your gear cannot crossover and you can level/quest in a dps spec. Now with the crossover gear there's no reason healers cannot have a DPS os to level with.

There are times that it's nice to have healer AE damage though. Halo on Ball lightning on Lei Shen and anything on Embodied Doubts come to mind.

I will admit there are times I'm on timeless isle or something and run into a rare or a pack of mobs only to realize that I am resto spec with resto gear and I'm just like -_-
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