No AoE damage for Hpally/Rsham?

100 Human Priest
15155
06/23/2014 07:27 AMPosted by Naxe
Halo on Ball lightning on Lei Shen


i always used divine star on lei shen. at what point/location would halo do more damage to them? aren't you mostly always stacked on lei shen's hitbox during ball lightning outside of the people who stand out to spawn them? at that point, when they get gripped in you can dstar/mind sear every single ball lightning spawn. i wish i still had logs from then to compare damage, but that's neither here nor there.

healers don't *need* aoe damage, but it's nice. it shouldn't be limited to a few specs if it's going to exist at all. all of them should have some form of aoe if it's going to be allowed to continue in WoD per ability pruning.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5045
I never ever said we needed AoE damage for raiding.

But, for soloing, pvp, and just general quality of life, it is something that would be nice to have. Prior to MoP, every spec had an AoE ability. This is just something basic that everyone needs in their toolkit.
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100 Draenei Shaman
13215
06/23/2014 07:32 AMPosted by Tsilyi
06/23/2014 07:27 AMPosted by Naxe
Halo on Ball lightning on Lei Shen


i always used divine star on lei shen. at what point/location would halo do more damage to them? aren't you mostly always stacked on lei shen's hitbox during ball lightning outside of the people who stand out to spawn them? at that point, when they get gripped in you can dstar/mind sear every single ball lightning spawn. i wish i still had logs from then to compare damage, but that's neither here nor there.

healers don't *need* aoe damage, but it's nice. it shouldn't be limited to a few specs if it's going to exist at all. all of them should have some form of aoe if it's going to be allowed to continue in WoD per ability pruning.


Interesting, during progression both of our priests ran halo and they were both out, along with our shadows to spawn them. I know that with all four of them using halo it would just melt the balls and our disc's were among the top damage on them. It did become irrelevant during farm though. I was just trying to think of specific instances, but disc t90 talents are another monster altogether when discussing the healers ability to have a rotational AE spell.

06/23/2014 10:21 AMPosted by Tírelle
I never ever said we needed AoE damage for raiding.

But, for soloing, pvp, and just general quality of life, it is something that would be nice to have. Prior to MoP, every spec had an AoE ability. This is just something basic that everyone needs in their toolkit.


I mean I guess if someone chooses to solo in a healing spec that is their prerogative. I don't know too many instances where healers in PVP are in a position to use their AE spells aside from stopping caps I guess.
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100 Human Paladin
7885
06/23/2014 10:50 AMPosted by Naxe
I mean I guess if someone chooses to solo in a healing spec that is their prerogative. I don't know too many instances where healers in PVP are in a position to use their AE spells aside from stopping caps I guess.


What worries me is how Blizzard is taking steps to make exercising that prerogative less fun. If it's their new vision that players should only solo while specced DPS or Tank, then they're inevitably going to be forcing players to take specs they don't enjoy. That is not an improvement to the game.

I'm starting to worry that someone on Blizzard's staff has lost sight of the most important rule of game design: the ultimate purpose of everything in your game and everything you do to your game must be progress towards one, single, all-important, emotional reaction in your players: fun.
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100 Draenei Shaman
13215
Do you legitimately find soloing in Holy spec as a pally fun compared to using similar abilities that are more effective in ret ? It will require you to simply switch specs without obtaining an entirely separate set of gear in WoD.

For me I don't find casting weak lava bursts and lightning bolts in resto spec "fun" when I can play ele with the same gear, granted my OS is enhance.
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90 Draenei Shaman
10225
06/18/2014 10:29 PMPosted by Piamette
Also, in WoD, offspec gear will be much easier, as your gear will automatically turn into suiting your spec when you swap specs.


Unless you don't like your class DPS spec. Then you will be punished without mercy.

I'm taking my H Priest into as much crap as she can handle now just for sheer joy of healing and damaging. I miss Fire Nova, especially in the Celestial blessing quest. What I am I suppose to do with all those blobs, keep rooting firing off an elemental when I get low and hope that Wrathion stops hitting like a child? Give me a break.

Being able to find ways to solo stuff is part of the bread and butter of wow. If you don't like it, take that stuff off your action bar. I'm sorry but deal with it, that same stuff will be situational, that we all have toolkits that we haul out when all seems lost.

You better hope I'm the last to die on a raid boss or you will be called out. I've solo'ed bosses down at reasonable level as a tank. I've face tanked stuff. I've tanked stuff you were supposed to use/need two tanks for. If you don't want to keybind your entire toolkit to the bars, fine by me. But don't come crying to me when you wipe to things that would have been salvageable.
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100 Human Paladin
7885
06/25/2014 10:32 PMPosted by Talai
Unless you don't like your class DPS spec. Then you will be punished without mercy.


My point exactly.

TBH, I've never tried ret, so I don't know whether I'd like it or not. That's beside the point; if it turns out I don't like it, there's a problem. And even if I'm not among the crowd that ends up disliking ret once they try it, that crowd will still exist, and they wouldn't have a reason to complain if Blizzard weren't doing these quality-of-life nerfs to healing specs.
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90 Draenei Shaman
10225
06/27/2014 03:19 PMPosted by Longwriter
06/25/2014 10:32 PMPosted by Talai
Unless you don't like your class DPS spec. Then you will be punished without mercy.


My point exactly.

TBH, I've never tried ret, so I don't know whether I'd like it or not. That's beside the point; if it turns out I don't like it, there's a problem. And even if I'm not among the crowd that ends up disliking ret once they try it, that crowd will still exist, and they wouldn't have a reason to complain if Blizzard weren't doing these quality-of-life nerfs to healing specs.


While my point still stands, my post does sound a bit hostile after going to try the healing Celestial challenge for the first time. It was so frustrating that Wrathion takes forever to melee daddy down and I had little to kill the mobs I was kiting/rooting/stunning except by timing my elemental correctly. Those blobs have low health and it irked me to think my Priest would have a much better time controlling them or if I still had Fire Nova then I'd have a much better chance. I ended up glyphing Flame Shock and making sure that at my totem was out on DW. Fight went so much faster and couldn't believe how much easier it was, just breezed through it. At the same time, I felt really gimped doing a healing challenge and having to find ways to DPS during it instead of doing my actual job - healing.

It would be nice to have abilities that while not viable in an actual raid setting, i.e. boss encounters, I could actually do some damage that didn't feel like a wet noodle. It would be nice when I'm out in the world and still in heal spec (like collecting treasures, traveling to heal someone at a world boss, my farm etc) to have some sort of DPS that could take care of normal mobs quicker. Not to rival DPS roles at all but to just protect myself.

What bothers me is that while I'm running around soloing old raids on my H Priest my Shammy and Pally would struggle to do the same kind of damage.
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100 Human Paladin
7885
Talai
90 Draenei Shaman
The Riddle of Steel
9865


06/27/2014 03:19 PMPosted by Longwriter

06/25/2014 10:32 PMPosted by Talai
Unless you don't like your class DPS spec. Then you will be punished without mercy.

My point exactly.

TBH, I've never tried ret, so I don't know whether I'd like it or not. That's beside the point; if it turns out I don't like it, there's a problem. And even if I'm not among the crowd that ends up disliking ret once they try it, that crowd will still exist, and they wouldn't have a reason to complain if Blizzard weren't doing these quality-of-life nerfs to healing specs.

While my point still stands, my post does sound a bit hostile after going to try the healing Celestial challenge for the first time. It was so frustrating that Wrathion takes forever to melee daddy down and I had little to kill the mobs I was kiting/rooting/stunning except by timing my elemental correctly. Those blobs have low health and it irked me to think my Priest would have a much better time controlling them or if I still had Fire Nova then I'd have a much better chance. I ended up glyphing Flame Shock and making sure that at my totem was out on DW. Fight went so much faster and couldn't believe how much easier it was, just breezed through it. At the same time, I felt really gimped doing a healing challenge and having to find ways to DPS during it instead of doing my actual job - healing.

It would be nice to have abilities that while not viable in an actual raid setting, i.e. boss encounters, I could actually do some damage that didn't feel like a wet noodle. It would be nice when I'm out in the world and still in heal spec (like collecting treasures, traveling to heal someone at a world boss, my farm etc) to have some sort of DPS that could take care of normal mobs quicker. Not to rival DPS roles at all but to just protect myself.

What bothers me is that while I'm running around soloing old raids on my H Priest my Shammy and Pally would struggle to do the same kind of damage.


I totally agree with your points. It's kind of making me wonder whether there's a lack of communication between the team of developers that work on class design and the team that works on quest- or environment-building. I'm a programmer for a living myself, and I know that lack of communication can do a lot of damage...
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90 Night Elf Rogue
5490
06/20/2014 07:21 PMPosted by Tírelle
I don't see why some of you think this us is unreasonable. Before MoP, Holy Paladins had Holy Wrath and consecration. That didn't make us overpowered with damage. Rather, it allowed us to contribute to damage in certain situations, and gave us sufficient quality of life to solo.


You are a healer. So heal. If you want to do DPS, then roll a DPS toon.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
5490
06/27/2014 03:19 PMPosted by Longwriter
...

My point exactly.

TBH, I've never tried ret, so I don't know whether I'd like it or not. That's beside the point; if it turns out I don't like it, there's a problem. And even if I'm not among the crowd that ends up disliking ret once they try it, that crowd will still exist, and they wouldn't have a reason to complain if Blizzard weren't doing these quality-of-life nerfs to healing specs.


While my point still stands, my post does sound a bit hostile after going to try the healing Celestial challenge for the first time. It was so frustrating that Wrathion takes forever to melee daddy down and I had little to kill the mobs I was kiting/rooting/stunning except by timing my elemental correctly. Those blobs have low health and it irked me to think my Priest would have a much better time controlling them or if I still had Fire Nova then I'd have a much better chance. I ended up glyphing Flame Shock and making sure that at my totem was out on DW. Fight went so much faster and couldn't believe how much easier it was, just breezed through it. At the same time, I felt really gimped doing a healing challenge and having to find ways to DPS during it instead of doing my actual job - healing.

It would be nice to have abilities that while not viable in an actual raid setting, i.e. boss encounters, I could actually do some damage that didn't feel like a wet noodle. It would be nice when I'm out in the world and still in heal spec (like collecting treasures, traveling to heal someone at a world boss, my farm etc) to have some sort of DPS that could take care of normal mobs quicker. Not to rival DPS roles at all but to just protect myself.

What bothers me is that while I'm running around soloing old raids on my H Priest my Shammy and Pally would struggle to do the same kind of damage.


While your DPS wouldn't rival DPS damage, that coupled with your heals, it would rival them. If you want to kill stuff, roll a damn healer. This is the problem with this game. People want to do it all.
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100 Human Paladin
7885
It would be nice when I'm out in the world and still in heal spec (like collecting treasures, traveling to heal someone at a world boss, my farm etc) to have some sort of DPS that could take care of normal mobs quicker. Not to rival DPS roles at all but to just protect myself.

What bothers me is that while I'm running around soloing old raids on my H Priest my Shammy and Pally would struggle to do the same kind of damage.

While your DPS wouldn't rival DPS damage, that coupled with your heals, it would rival them. If you want to kill stuff, roll a damn healer. This is the problem with this game. People want to do it all.


I'm afraid your argument doesn't make much sense to me, and here's why: you're assuming we'd be dishing out healing and doing damage at the same time during a raid, but really, for any given GCD, healing and damage are pretty much mutually exclusive. If you mean alternating between the two, then if we have the downtime during a raid when we don't have to heal, then contributing some extra damage should be fine, anyway---a DPS class would still do more damage than us in that situation, especially over the long haul, and probably a raid leader should've taken a DPS instead of a healer. If we don't have the downtime to alternate between damage and healing, then we'll be healing only, anyway, and we're not doing any damage to speak of. Either way, some extra damage in our kits isn't a bad thing for the game, and it is a good thing for the fun-factor for healers.

Another way of looking at it: if Blizzard can balance Atonement and Fistweaving as half-healer, half-DPS specs, they can balance Holy paladin DPS so that it doesn't bring too much or too little to the table.

Even if Blizzard said that healer damage had to be way low compared to DPS or even tank damage, I wouldn't mind as much so long as I had a working multi-target damage ability that didn't have a long cooldown.
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90 Draenei Shaman
10225
07/01/2014 08:20 AMPosted by Rognacious
While your DPS wouldn't rival DPS damage, that coupled with your heals, it would rival them. If you want to kill stuff, roll a damn healer. This is the problem with this game. People want to do it all.


So Blizz adding things for healers requiring us going outside the roll = me wanting it all?

This coming from a rogue too..

Me being able to kill vermin at my farm without having to switch specs to plant things does not mean I want it all. I don't want to be able to solo raids in my heal specs but killing some regular old mobs without LB spam would be fine by me. And not feeling gimped because I can't AoE the small fry stuff down well at all (like I'm out picking flowers say in the open world) is annoying. I shouldn't have to make sure I'm in DPS always unless I'm in raid/5 man. And who waits anymore on pulling stuff in anything you can queue for?
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I drop a magma totem when I'm feeling frisky but I never bother attempting to contribute to aoe dps. :(

06/23/2014 07:27 AMPosted by Naxe
Excuse me, http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zArK7Xk9YDtCZMBP#type=damage-done&target=176&source=139


Awesome!
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100 Human Paladin
7885
I sure hope Blizzard is reading this thread.

Really, they can make things a lot more fun for Holy paladins and Resto shaman in Warlords by adding AoE damage for Holy and reversing the removal of Chain Lightning for Resto, and they should want to make it as fun to be a healer as possible: if they make it too un-fun, it's not impossible they could end up with a healer shortage (or making a healer shortage worse).
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07/03/2014 06:22 PMPosted by Longwriter
if they make it too un-fun, it's not impossible they could end up with a healer shortage (or making a healer shortage worse).


it is impossible. There is zero reason healers need AoE. That is why there is dual spec in this game. please stop bumping pointless threads.
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100 Troll Druid
9985
07/01/2014 03:49 PMPosted by Longwriter
Another way of looking at it: if Blizzard can balance Atonement and Fistweaving as half-healer, half-DPS specs, they can balance Holy paladin DPS so that it doesn't bring too much or too little to the table.

They haven't been able to balance it. You might as well be complaining that threat generation is low in Holy.
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100 Human Paladin
7885
07/03/2014 07:08 PMPosted by Rexxee
They haven't been able to balance it. You might as well be complaining that threat generation is low in Holy.


They've not given up on balancing it; if they had given up, then they'd have taken out Crane stance.
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100 Tauren Shaman
HC
18005
I'll be fine without AoE, thanks for your concern though.
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100 Troll Shaman
15180
06/21/2014 08:40 AMPosted by Munkeechick
what resto shaman uses chain lightning? ever?


Don't ask questions for which you don't want answers. If I forget to change to Ele because I was RBG'ing, I find myself pulling multiple virmen on the Halfhill farm as Resto and yes, I use Chain Lightning.
Edited by Shaylana on 7/7/2014 7:39 PM PDT
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