Libram of Light: A Holy Paladins' Guide (6.2)

(Sticky)

91 Blood Elf Paladin
Two
18300
07/23/2014 02:21 PMPosted by Divium
I'm healing with a shaman now :)


YUS! Healing Tide Totem Mana Tide Totem Spirit Link Totem Ascendence Ancestral Healing Healing Stream Totem Healing Raid TOTEMS TOTEMS TOTEEEEEEEEEMMMMMMMSSSSSSSSSSS

=3 sorry... I like totems
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100 Human Paladin
12425
You obviously don't know how to spec haste builds correctly.
@ 7170 you're not going to be @ 35% haste. Maybe will raid buff yes.
However raid buffs do not affect Sanc of battle. The way you build haste is completely wrong.
It goes Haste>Mastery>Spirit.
Your melee haste being capped at 50% will cause your holy shock as well as your judgment to be
on a 4s cd vs a 5s cd sadly eve @ a 7763 Haste point you're only reaching a 5.04s cd
in terms of mastery im hitting greater than 25% im currently at 28.83% and it will go up even more with gear along with haste.

So if you really want to talk heals and % here it goes.
For every 20s of time in casting i am generating 2 holy power faster than master would.
For every 60s i'm able to cast a free heal Greater, HR, and FoL.
So as the fight progresses haste will be > than mastery.
So if a fight is about 5 minutes long min. i would be casting 5 extra greater heals along with
30 extra holy power generation compared to mastery. oh if you also factor in when you have to interruption when you have to move. Haste doesn't have that problem as much as mastery does.
But oh ya i haven't really given you my numbers to reg fights in theory crafting.
Without Raid buffs
24.79% Haste with Seal// 34.74%Mastery//[31.40%Mastery/35,817SP][intelgems]
Holy Shock - 5.29s CD
Holy Light Cast - 2s
Spell Power - 34,977
Holy Light Max Heal = 9347 +(0 .785*34,977) = 36,803.9
Holy Shock Max Heal = 9764+(0.833*34,977) = 38,899.8
42.93% Haste with seal// 23.62% Mastery
Holy Shock - 4.62s CD
Holy Light- 1.75s
Spell Power - 35,817
Holy Light Max Heal = 9347+(0.785*35,817) = 37,463.3
Holy Shock MAx Heal = 9754+(0.833*35817) = 39,589.6
Holy Light
Heals a friendly target for 8390 to 9347 (+ 78.5% of Spell power).
Holy Shock
Blasts the target with Holy energy, causing 1371 to 1484 (+ 136% of Spell power) Holy damage to an enemy, or 9014 to 9764 (+ 83.3% of Spell power) healing to an ally, and granting a charge of Holy Power.
Haste v Mastery
In 14s straight cast.
8 v 7
a)8*37,463.3 = 299,706.4 --- 23.62%*37,463.3 = 8,848.83*8 = 70790.64
b)7*36,803.3 = 257,623.1 ---- 34.74%*36,803.3 = 12,785.47*7 = 89498.29
c)7*37,463.3 = 262,243.1 ----- 31.40%*37,463.3 = 11,763.4762*7 = 82344.3
a-b = 42,083.3 -----Haste----- v ---------- Mastery----- a-b= -18,707.65
a-c = 37,463.3------Haste ------ v------Mastery ------- a-c= -11,553.66

This is me doing differen't geming for you. I used mrrobot to re gem and reforge my gear
towards mastery. (This was done before i got better gear).

As you can see in a straight 14s cast time i'm able to cast 8 holy light v your 7. ha ha yes i understand i'm behind in shielding by 18k. However you're behind in healing 42k so difference in healing is roughly 24k every 14s? So still tell me how mastery is better than haste?
Edited by Holypest on 7/23/2014 9:53 PM PDT
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91 Blood Elf Paladin
Two
18300
07/23/2014 09:37 PMPosted by Holypest
So still tell me how mastery is better than haste?


If after all this time you're still unwilling to believe then no amount of information or arguing will change your mind. Players have been calculating the pros and cons of raw healing vs absorbs for SoO for a year now. Unanimously they have declared absorbs better [and ergo mastery better]. At this point it seems to me like you're arguing this simply to argue it.

Thanks for what started as an engaging debate though. = )

TLDR: Agree to disagree
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100 Human Paladin
12425
I mean if you really want you can make a toon or find someone around my ilvl on alliance side and we can heal it out and see which is better. But other than that i really don't think even with numbers you're not going to see it because you really don't understand or know how to play a haste build and no i'm not arguing just to argue.
Edited by Holypest on 7/23/2014 10:14 PM PDT
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100 Human Paladin
13815
Andraste! I need help!

This time Challenge modes, I have been passed down three times because while I am healing challenge modes because I cannot deal enough damage while healing at the same time as the Guild's disc priest.

Is there any way of improving my damage without hurting my healing to much? I was going to try and gem for haste over mastery do get more shocks out and denounces.
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91 Blood Elf Paladin
Two
18300
Haste does feel better than mastery at low gear lvls.

When I did CMs in current gear I felt like my healing was lack luster. You have to think about how we were gearing at launch. Int is a lot more powerful than secondary stats.

A Crit / Haste build would probably yield your highest HPS and DPS.
Buuuuut Unless you're pushing record times you shouldn't need to DPS as a healer. If a Disc Priest and BM monk can 2man gold times. Pretty sure any combination of 5 people can as well.

And your guildies should understand you simply CAN'T dps while healing! You don't have atonement!

Spec Holy Prism, use it on CD on the tank, Glyph Denounce and Holy Shock to maximize damage. Divine Purpose is kind of better than HA for CMs because of our lack of stats. SW would yield the highest dps gain in conjunction with Holy Shock.

For stats I would probably weigh it like this.
Int > Spirit[to comfort] > Crit ~>~ Haste > Mastery

Get trinkets with static Int and Procs for Spirit.
The Darkmoon Card and the trinket from Tsulong are BiS for us for CM/PG.
If you're building a set, get items with lots of sockets. Gems aren't scaled down.

Just out of curiosity what class/specs are you tanking /dpsing with? If they're passing you up for your lack of dps it's probably the dps' badness, not yours.
Edited by Andrasté on 7/24/2014 10:18 PM PDT
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100 Human Paladin
13815
Used holy prism for Challenge Modes and Heroic spoils of pandaria today.

Fell in love with the move.
Edited by Divium on 7/25/2014 10:49 PM PDT
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91 Blood Elf Paladin
Two
18300
It is quite good for when you can't get optimal use out of Light's Hammer.
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91 Blood Elf Paladin
Two
18300
Updated some stuff, added in some math about Double Amp Trinkets, and added my views on Beta so far.

If you have Beta access please provide solid feedback at

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1469244-WoD-Holy-Paladin-Megathread
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13349475457?page=1

Or if you have concerns or questions post them here and I will forward them.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
15955
Reading that Holy Paladin Beta thread is incredibly depressing. The spec sounds terrible to play, even if it ends up being effective. Instead of being pluses, Beacon of Light and Holy Power sound like weights holding the spec down, instead of what make the spec unique and fun.

If you want to pass along a suggestion:
Replace Beacon of Insight with:
Your Flash of Light and Holy Light generate 1 Holy Power except when cast on the Beaconed target. (The beacon transfer amount would probably need to be adjusted to take into account that, but I'd leave that to Blizzard to figure out)
Edited by Boggyb on 7/27/2014 4:58 PM PDT
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91 Blood Elf Paladin
Two
18300
The main issue with it right now is that nothing we do feels meaningful, interesting, or fun. And Blizzard keeps saying they want things to be meaningful, interesting, and fun. Part of the problem is that HoTs are really good in Beta atm. And Double Beacon is really strong. So to compensate our individual heals are really lack luster. With all of our healing spread across so many sources; Mastery, Beacon(s), HoTs(EF), and raw healing everything feels really small and insignificant. I'm not advocating that we go back to being the big uber tank healers, but neither should we go the route of Disc where we are no longer capable of healing a group back up in a timely fashion.

I'll pass your suggestion along in my next post on Beta.
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90 Human Paladin
15450
Nice write up on the double amps. The problem is convincing your raid to give the immerseus amp trinket to you over the caster dps and prot paladin.
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91 Blood Elf Paladin
Two
18300
07/27/2014 05:37 PMPosted by Rasul
The problem is convincing your raid to give the immerseus amp trinket to you over the caster dps and prot paladin.


Technically you can try for TTT. It still works, it's just people will look at you funny with a proc-for-str trinket.

Like-wise you can give PPP to prospective double amp tanks/dps if you have it already.

Luckily for me all 3 of our casters got HM PBI on the same day [2 from coin 1 from drop, thank god].
Unluckily for me, we never saw it again and we've stopped raiding for now.
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90 Human Paladin
15450
07/28/2014 08:38 PMPosted by Andrasté
Technically you can try for TTT. It still works, it's just people will look at you funny with a proc-for-str trinket.Like-wise you can give PPP to prospective double amp tanks/dps if you have it already.Luckily for me all 3 of our casters got HM PBI on the same day [2 from coin 1 from drop, thank god].Unluckily for me, we never saw it again and we've stopped raiding for now.


Same here. I have stopped raiding also. Between getting the old house ready for sale and upgrading the new house, my brother in-law diagnosed with stage 4 T-Cell lymphoma, and my wife getting decompression surgery, raiding is off the table right now.

I still take time to peruse the board in the morning before work. Other than that, I don't even log onto any of my on-line games.

Too bad. I would have liked to kill H. Garrosh, try double amps and get TTT to complete my ret set.
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91 Blood Elf Paladin
Two
18300
Yowza. I don't envy your life right now.
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90 Human Paladin
3370
06/23/2014 05:55 AMPosted by Andrasté
[For Eternal Flame build] If you use the GotAK/AW macro listed above spamming LoD can be more powerful than trying to EF. As GotAK won't duplicate EF ticks but will duplicate all else. - Thanks to Rasul for bringing that up


Doesn't that make this macro excellent for heavy raid-wide damage?

I'm a noob, but when I use AW + GotAK together, I prefer Holy Radiance as my default spell between Holy Shocks while waiting for LoD, not Divine Light. You add Daybreak to each Holy Shock, so every spell you cast becomes an AoE. All that, and the double healing from GotAK...
Edited by Telias on 8/1/2014 9:53 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11425
Got a Q for you. I'm building a Holy set (almost done) and it's going to land at around 565-570 item level by the time I actually equip it and start playing with it.

I probably won't be using it in main raid, but would like to learn the spec via Flex. So here's my question: EF vs SH in 10-15 man Flexes, assuming mostly unupgraded Heroic gear? I was under the impression that EF was better for any smaller group, regardless of gear, but the OP seems to contradict that.
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91 Blood Elf Paladin
Two
18300
08/01/2014 09:51 AMPosted by Telias
'm a noob, but when I use AW + GotAK together, I prefer Holy Radiance as my default spell between Holy Shocks while waiting for LoD, not Divine Light. You add Daybreak to each Holy Shock, so every spell you cast becomes an AoE. All that, and the double healing from GotAK...


Yes all that works. I actually almost always forget to use AW/GotAK. The only time I do is on Garroshs' WC and since everyone is spread I spam FoL because it's faster. But yes the way you're using it is correct.

@ Qris, You CAN use EF at any Ilvl. My main concern with adding in that bit about low ilvl and RF is because EF also takes more skill, I guess you could say. SH is just easier and more efficient for the newer players. In your case it can go either way. I would gear towards EF and play SH for Thok/Norushen. Even in a 10m setting SH is sometimes better than EF for those so with 15 people I would probably definitely use SH for Thok/Noruhshen/*Maybe*Galakras. Otherwise EF would be better. You should have the gear for it, easily.
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90 Human Paladin
3370
Andraste, what do you macro Divine Favor to? I forget to use my CDs frequently, and I thought I would put it with AW and GotAK. It might not be the most effective place to put it, but at least it will be used. I'll have exactly one button for my buffs, then, and much less to think about :D
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91 Blood Elf Paladin
Two
18300
Divine Favor + Holy Avenger
Avenging Wrath + Guardian of Ancient Kings

Putting it all into 1 is great if everyone is at 10% hp and there are no other healers. Unfortunately that is never the case and most of your increased throughput would over healing.

Edit: At your ilvl you won't be using HA, so anywhere I guess. I probably just wouldn't macro it to anything.
Edited by Andrasté on 8/1/2014 1:15 PM PDT
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