Priest: Spirit vs. Intellect, Mastery

90 Draenei Priest
7545
So I've been trying to get my Reforge and stats a bit more proper for Normals.

I've been trying to work AMR and do it myself, but I can't seem to get it quite right. I'm trying to go for the Mastery build for Holy (Intellect, Spirit, Mastery), but unless I put Spirit below EVERYTHING (including Haster and Crit Strike) AMR goes crazy for Spirit.

I'm trying to find the right balance of the three (Intellect/Spirit/Mastery), and I think I'm almost there. I think maybe I could a TINY bit more Spirit since I can get pretty close to OOM or go OOM on some fights. Maybe shuffling some gem types around would help?

It also brings up the point of should I squeeze out the extra Spirit from the Flask, or get a bit of extra spirit from gems and use the Intellect Flask?

Should I go for the Two One Hands like I have now, or try to get the Galakras Staff?
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100 Draenei Paladin
18650
I do not know how to use AMR but
06/23/2014 08:42 PMPosted by Lennadia
It also brings up the point of should I squeeze out the extra Spirit from the Flask, or get a bit of extra spirit from gems and use the Intellect Flask?

Should I go for the Two One Hands like I have now, or try to get the Galakras Staff?

Int flask is always better than spirit because they both give 1000, whereas secondary gems give double the amount that primary gems give. For similar reasons, the Glorious Chest enchant is better than spirit enchant.

Anyway, I don't really see anything wrong with your weapons as they are both already 561. Yeah, getting the staff would squeeze out a bit more mastery (edit: fixed mistype) for you, but unless it's Warforged, it's only going to be a sidegrade.

Based on your gemming pattern, your belt and helm appear to be gemmed inconsistently, and it is questionable whether your ring socket bonuses are worth gemming for, particularly on Signet of the Dinomancers.

But to be clear idk really how Holy Priests gem.
Edited by Piamette on 6/23/2014 9:37 PM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Priest
9455
06/23/2014 08:42 PMPosted by Lennadia
AMR goes crazy for Spirit.


Set your own hard cap, static preferably.

Are you 10's? 25's? That'll change up your gearing priority. As well as who you heal with. If you're healing with a myriad of absorb healers or doing 10's, int/crit may fair better than mastery. Simply because people are not sitting at low health levels for any period of time.

06/23/2014 08:42 PMPosted by Lennadia
I think maybe I could a TINY bit more Spirit since I can get pretty close to OOM or go OOM on some fights


This probably has more to do with your spell selection that your spirit levels. You'll want to get your hands on some form of a regen trinket, however. If anything, the Timeless Chi-Ji is pretty good (535 ilvl) and it's 50k timeless coins. Not too bad of a grind.

06/23/2014 08:42 PMPosted by Lennadia
a bit of extra spirit from gems and use the Intellect Flask?


This, more stats overall. It's a stat loss to flask Spirit (as explained above.)

Again, it probably comes down to spell selection as well. Do you have any logs?
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100 Human Priest
14765
Just add my 2 cents.

I think you should go for the 4721 haste breakpoint. You have the native haste on your gear to get there. It's good for 10m when you use Glyph of Renew, and also good for 25m to get your cast off faster.

Don't use Glyph of CoH. It's a waste of mana. If you are healing 10m, CoH isn't that great either.

Use Glyph of BH only for fights with heavy aoe phase (e.g., Thok) if you are having mana issue.

In terms of gemming, in my opinion, if you can't get to 20% crit without raid buffs, it's better to go with Mastery > Crit.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
8160
your glyphs are set up pretty well for a 25m raid. i think last time you asked for advice you said you didn't like using renew or the renew glyph so the 4721 breakpoint might not be worth it for you.

you have the meta now, so the binding heal glyph is pretty solid for that. binding heal during your procs....make sure you have a weakaura or something to track your lucidity procs though so you aren't spamming it and spending unnecessary mana. that could help you cut down on your mana woes and allow you to reforge out of spirit a bit.

yet, your spirit should be more than enough for what you're doing. SHOULD BE, might be your spells...might be the derp of your raid, but 15k is typically more than enough. 10-12k is usually a solid amount with a regen trinket like naer said.

but logs would probably help more.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
15070
Your glyphs are correct, I would argue with you about Angelic Bulwark, but I'm a Desperate Prayer junkie. Your gems are correct, except for your belt (stop gemming pure Spirit) and your offhand (get rid of that Crit gem).

I'm going to quibble with some of what other people have said, though.

Glyph of CoH is not a waste of mana. It's a good way to increase your throughput in a 25 man scenario. Use Glyph of Binding Heal on every fight, but if you are having mana issues, don't use Binding Heal unless you have a Lucidity proc from your meta gem. The exception to this is Thok, where you should start using glyphed Binding Heal as soon as you can't get a PoH off in between roars. 2x BH, then a PoH (in between Divine Star and PoM casts, and keep Sanc down as much as possible).

Get to the 4721 Haste Breakpoint, but don't do it for cast times - it's generally meaningless for that. You want to get to 4721 because you want to get that extra tick of Lightwell Renew.

If you are 25m, beg, borrow, or steal to get the 4pc and use it on Sanc. I know that it doesn't exactly make Sanc the be-all, end-all of spells, but it does raise the ticks to a point where it's worth putting down. On stack fights (which is like, most of the fights in the damn raid), it's really useful.

Use Shadowfiend early and often. Don't be afraid to use your Potion of Focus - just tell people you're drinking.

Otherwise, with your setup, you should have more than enough mana to be fine. If you are finding yourself running low on mana, this may mean that you are being a little too aggressive with your spell use or that someone else in your raid is not pulling their weight.

Remember to swap your 90 talent based on the fight. Most fights will lend themselves to Divine Star, but some might be better with Halo (Immerseus comes to mind) or Cascade (Klaxxi Paragons comes to mind).

Finally, use your Int Flask. Eat Int Food. It's not worth it to use secondary stats for those. You'd be better off stacking more throughput so you have to cast less than stacking more regen and having weaker heals.
Edited by Tiriel on 6/24/2014 10:57 AM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Priest
9455
06/24/2014 10:55 AMPosted by Tiriel
Use Glyph of Binding Heal on every fight, but if you are having mana issues, don't use Binding Heal unless you have a Lucidity proc from your meta gem.


This.

The reason is that you get Serendipity for free (and free, my friends, is good.) So not only are you getting glyphed BH casts off (depending on haste, 2 is reasonable) where the 3rd target is a smart heal, but you're getting a cost reduction and cast time decrease on PoH/GH AND the increase to healing from your 2pc. This is really powerful, and can get a lot of healing done.

06/24/2014 10:55 AMPosted by Tiriel
You want to get to 4721 because you want to get that extra tick of Lightwell Renew.


Lightwell for MVP.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
8160
Lightwell forgot about that. I probably have been disc for too long. QQ

I think I still passed my holy test though.
Edited by Mulan on 6/24/2014 11:42 AM PDT
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100 Human Priest
14765
In an ideal world, Lightwell will heal you. In 25N, it looks really pretty, and can be used as a personal marker. You'd like to watch Lucidity to cast BH/FH, but you'd better off spam BH+PoH as long as your mana can stand. CoH and 4pc HW: Sanctuary look really nice on paper, but Spirit of Chi-Ji will do the wonders. (Ah, the OP doesn't have the legendary cloak yet. That cloak could do 7-10% healing for me.)
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100 Blood Elf Priest
9455
06/24/2014 11:57 AMPosted by Jesminia
You'd like to watch Lucidity to cast BH/FH, but you'd better off spam BH+PoH as long as your mana can stand.


I disagree here.

Smart gameplay by using LMG procs for BH and FCDL procs to continually keep Serendipity procs out and ready means less spirit and more throughput. Just spamming BH/PoH without looking at the opportunity cost to throughput gain of using it during procs whenever you can (because Serendipity does stick around for 20 seconds) is poor gamplay. You'll need more spirit to sustain it, which is taken directly out of your throughput stats.

Are there times you need to BH outside of Lucidity to get a stack of Serendipity? Sure, especially if you know big damage is coming. However most of the time, between LMG procs and FDCL procs, you're going to have a large uptime on Serendipity without the need to really dip into your mana budget aggressively.

Lightwell does a pretty good job, at the 4721 breakpoint, of sniping up some healing.

06/24/2014 11:57 AMPosted by Jesminia
CoH


Can be a mana sink, but glyphed it's better in 25's, and on top of that it's the best snipe heal we have to compete in an environment where content is overhealed most of the time. It's on a lower priority than other spells, but keeping it glyphed is generally a good idea.
Edited by Naérwen on 6/24/2014 12:11 PM PDT
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100 Human Priest
14765
OK. Sorry. I was just ranting about the snipe fest in 25N, for which I don't know what type of game play is. It was just a lot of wasted heals in order to get on meters.

Back to the seriousness about CoH, I agree that the glyph is better for 25m. However, because how little CoH heals (it's always less than 7% for me even with the glyph), if mana is a concern, that little extra healing from the glyph is not worth the mana increase, in my opinion.

Similar mana concern for Glyph of BH, but with a different twist. If a fight has constant damage that causes you to spam BH+PoH almost on GCD to heal the raid, that glyph drains mana fast. I find this lesser of an issue for fights with spiky damage phases where you don't use BH in the light phases to regen mana. This certainly depend on the fight and how much mana regen is available.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
9455
I don't blame you one bit for being upset with the current healing model.

=]
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90 Blood Elf Priest
15070
06/24/2014 11:57 AMPosted by Jesminia
In an ideal world, Lightwell will heal you. In 25N, it looks really pretty, and can be used as a personal marker. You'd like to watch Lucidity to cast BH/FH, but you'd better off spam BH+PoH as long as your mana can stand. CoH and 4pc HW: Sanctuary look really nice on paper, but Spirit of Chi-Ji will do the wonders. (Ah, the OP doesn't have the legendary cloak yet. That cloak could do 7-10% healing for me.)


Lightwell does quite a bit of healing when there's enough damage to proc it. Thok is a cardinal example of this, but I find it quite useful in Spoils, as well.
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90 Draenei Priest
7545
Thanks for all the help everyone. I haven't gotten around to making some of the changes yet, but I did take care of one thing today;

I FINALLY GOT MY LEGENDARY CLOAK!
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90 Blood Elf Priest
15070
06/24/2014 10:19 PMPosted by Lennadia
Thanks for all the help everyone. I haven't gotten around to making some of the changes yet, but I did take care of one thing today;

I FINALLY GOT MY LEGENDARY CLOAK!


:) that will make things much better.
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100 Human Priest
20325
So I've been trying to get my Reforge and stats a bit more proper for Normals.

I'm trying to find the right balance of the three (Intellect/Spirit/Mastery), and I think I'm almost there. I think maybe I could a TINY bit more Spirit since I can get pretty close to OOM or go OOM on some fights. Maybe shuffling some gem types around would help?

It also brings up the point of should I squeeze out the extra Spirit from the Flask, or get a bit of extra spirit from gems and use the Intellect Flask?

[/quote]

The amount of spirit you want is really a staple of how comfortable you are with your mana as well as spell usage. In normals I was probably around 13k but heroics I've pushed up to 16k (planning on reforging / regemming back down to 15k depending).

As others have said, most of your healing will be sniped, especially in 10m normals if you are 3 healing (shouldn't be at this point) which is why a lot of builds suggest for crit over mastery; this is a different story for 25M's as EoL dominates, especially on thok.

I've always found mastery to be a better stat than crit however, especially with 2 healing heroics. You will want to at least reach the first renew breakpoint which comes in handy for renew blanket fights and proccing your flash heals (sha, galakras, 3 tank healing shamans, nazgrim, ect).
Edited by Amunre on 6/25/2014 12:16 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Priest
7545
So I did a Flex 4 tonight.

There was a Druid and Shaman there already, so I felt like a third wheel. During Garrosh, I went to the dreaded Disc spec to give us the slight DPS boost to get over the hump (since I have no Shadow Spec).

They might be completely useless because I was unneeded, but here are the logs and the video anyway. (At the time of posting the video is still being processed. Please be patient.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAWmzcF99lQ&feature=youtu.be

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/vFBfmwkKT6g3qzyb
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100 Human Priest
14765
06/26/2014 09:09 PMPosted by Lennadia
They might be completely useless because I was unneeded


Yeah, 3 healing a flex 11m is an overkill, especially if your co-healers are also around your ilvl.

If you are wearing your armory gear (I guess that's Holy gear) while playing Disc, the numbers won't be good because it's lacking Crit. But it is still amazing to see your 40% overhealing on Divine Aegis. There was just not enough damage to heal.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
9420
06/23/2014 08:42 PMPosted by Lennadia
So I've been trying to get my Reforge and stats a bit more proper for Normals.

I've been trying to work AMR and do it myself, but I can't seem to get it quite right. I'm trying to go for the Mastery build for Holy (Intellect, Spirit, Mastery), but unless I put Spirit below EVERYTHING (including Haster and Crit Strike) AMR goes crazy for Spirit.

I'm trying to find the right balance of the three (Intellect/Spirit/Mastery), and I think I'm almost there. I think maybe I could a TINY bit more Spirit since I can get pretty close to OOM or go OOM on some fights. Maybe shuffling some gem types around would help?

It also brings up the point of should I squeeze out the extra Spirit from the Flask, or get a bit of extra spirit from gems and use the Intellect Flask?

Should I go for the Two One Hands like I have now, or try to get the Galakras Staff?


There are a few ways to play holy right now. Ultimately it will depend on who/what you're healing with and what you're comfortable with.

Check out: http://talesofapriest.com/resources/haste-breakpoints/ for your breakpoints. As a general rule I push to the 4721 break point. It's easy to achieve, and the other breakpoints aren't really feasible until heroic levels of gear (ie: the 18229 breakpoint). I also only find this breakpoint valuable for a few fights since the burst nature of SoO tends to favour smart heals like CoH and HoTs like Echo of Light.

The nice thing about gearing holy is because of the haste break point and having 2 valuable stats, you can really balance your gear around haste break points and mastery. This makes a lot of gear valuable to us and we can switch in and out gear based upon needs. I like to play a mastery build like you have going on, but that's also because I tend to solo heal a lot of fights at this time. Crit is another option, particularly if you are playing with a Disc priest so you can top off whatever damage comes through the absorbs. I still tend to favour mastery, but that's a personal healing style preference. If you are ever able to achieve the 18229 break point you will need spirit to match, so it will be difficult to get any other secondary stat (but you should go crit in that case).

Use and abuse the 2 piece bonus. If you're playing Serenity renew with Cascade, it allows you to have that emergency greater heal. If you're playing Sanctuary CoH/PoH spec, then it allows you to abuse PoH and echo mastery. This is particularly valuable when solo healing 10 man content since HoTs (whether in the form of renew or echo) are your greatest ally.

As an example of how this works, if you have 50% mastery (should be achievable at your level), and you have 2 stacks of Serendipity/2-piece buff, you are already healing for a double prayer of healing. Let's say that crits - you suddenly have a prayer of healing doing 4x the amount of healing as a normal heal. On top of that, your mastery will add a HoT to that group that heals them for 50% of that healing. This is particularly strong on fights where consistent damage is a factor (ie: Galakras, Noru, Protectors, IJ, and Malkorok)

Trinkets: the sha of pride trinket you have is good for Serenity/Renew spec. If you have a cleave trinket it's going to be better for PoH/Sanctuary. It also works nicely in conjunction with the legendary cloak. Sha trinket is BiS for Disc. Choose your trinkets on the basis of how damage works and how much mana you'll need.

Spirit: Your spirit is fine, especially with that trinket from Siegecrafter. Try to get comfortable with the flow of fights and manage your manage as such. Managing mana is very unforgiving as holy, but as a general rule I will blow my shadow fiend relatively early in the fight and when it comes back a second time I will use it in conjunction with hymn to get a nice chunk of mana back.

If you have meta-gem procs use them for binding heal. And yes, I would glyph it specifically for this purpose. Binding heal is expensive, but if used well it provides you with valuable smart healing and a proc of serendipity which allows for some really amazing on demand Healing. This will also help you conserve A LOT of mana if you utilize the meta-gem with your 2 piece.

Here's a video demonstrating what I am saying above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed2Q_T0_YxY
(I was 555 at the time of the video - and my play is far from flawless, but still a decent demonstration of how Holy works)
Edited by Serenitiest on 6/27/2014 4:52 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Priest
7545
06/26/2014 09:39 PMPosted by Jesminia
06/26/2014 09:09 PMPosted by Lennadia
They might be completely useless because I was unneeded


Yeah, 3 healing a flex 11m is an overkill, especially if your co-healers are also around your ilvl.

If you are wearing your armory gear (I guess that's Holy gear) while playing Disc, the numbers won't be good because it's lacking Crit. But it is still amazing to see your 40% overhealing on Divine Aegis. There was just not enough damage to heal.


Thats what I was doing. I went Disc because I figured the DPS increase from Penance and Smite spam was greater than Chastise, and that whatever healing I could do was incidental compared to the Druid and Shaman.

I was really only there because I wanted my Garrosh kill after getting my cloak. I actually wanted to go to bed. But murdering Garrosh and a chance at a BoA was an opportunity.

Now I face a decision though; continue on as Holy, which kind of fits my idea of a healer (and character) but keep having to take crap from Flex and groups and not be top pick for Alt Normals because LoLShaman and LoLDruid (no to be mean to them, but they outclass me by a lot just being those classes at times), or bite the bullet and go Discipline and learn that, which while doesn't mesh with the character as well will lead to more people wanting me, and more Alt Normals and possible Normal Normals......and making the Shamans and Druids feel a little impotent at times too.
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