Mistweaver Help

90 Tauren Warrior
9560
Hey, figured I'd come here and ask a few questions I've been having regarding this class.

First off, I know very little about MW monk, hence why I am here in the first place.

Here is what I have been told [note, some of the information contradicts, based on who gave it to me...]

  • MW monks are the worst healing class in the game, at current [in terms of raid cooldown/heal usage]
  • MW monks are good at heal sniping
  • MW will always be bottom of the charts
  • MW due to heal sniping should be in the middle
  • I'm a GM and a raid leader, and have a lot of experience in both categories, but I missed DS-ToT. I came back this past March. I can accurately judge the other classes, as I am familiar enough with them, but MW monks I have, as mentioned, no experience. I want to have a better idea of how to gauge my current MW monk's performance. If there is a good MW monk willing to help me go over logs and tell me where they think my MW should be at, that would be very much appreciated [must provide logs to show you actually know what you're talking about in a more serious raiding environment].

    Thanks for any and all help healer crew!
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    100 Troll Druid
    9955
    MW probably looks worse on charts than it deserves, since they often contribute DPS while the other healers are busy sniping each other.
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    90 Tauren Warrior
    9560
    My disc priest is doing more DPS/damage [I'm 550ilvl] and our MW is 566ilvl. I assume based on gear levels, she should be doing more? She is the only MW non-LFR that I have played with, and of course all of the LFR ones blatantly suck.

    However, logically speaking, if they are supposedly contributing DPS while other healers are busy sniping each other, wouldn't it be better to have a another Disc priest in that slot then? Seeing as how Disc also DPS while healing, and they provide better cooldowns?

    Thanks for your info Rex, any opinions appreciated :)
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    100 Draenei Monk
    12080
    06/24/2014 06:00 AMPosted by Jynxdt
    MW monks are the worst healing class in the game, at current [in terms of raid cooldown/heal usage]
    MW monks are good at heal sniping
    MW will always be bottom of the charts
    MW due to heal sniping should be in the middle


    1. No. Basically our sniping tools will be eminence and rjw. Even then maybe we can outsnipe holy priests.

    2. In 10 man? No not really. In a 25 man, if the rest of your healing is as good/geared they will probably be on the lower end

    3. Again, it depends on the rest of your comp and relative gear levels and raid size

    In terms of logs go ahead and post them here or in monk donnie/swaggle/suplift etc etc etc all tend to be fairly frequent posters.
    Edited by Synae on 6/24/2014 8:29 AM PDT
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    5 Orc Monk
    0
    MW naturally have HIGH overheal numbers/percentages. This is due to the playstyle forcing them to cast Renewing Mist (aoe hot) on cooldown. In general they try to keep as much of the raid covered in renewing mist as possible. Combine this with uplift, which is the main throughput AoE heal, it only heals people who are effected by renewing mist. As you can see this can and will lead to lots of overhealing no matter how you look at it.

    MW is a solid middle of the road healer in 10's, if not really amazing for a few encounters. MW is utter !@#$ in 25's, if not pulling good numbers situationally. This is because of renewing mist (this ability will get mentioned a lot) It has a target cap, basically each casting of the spell effect 3 people, realistically with normal cooldowns and no tea's they can have 6 people effected by renewing mist at once. With cooldowns they can have basically an entire 10man covered in renewing mist for a period of time. No matter how much a MW tries they will never get even half of a 25man covered in renewing mist. Going from being able to heal the entire raid, to not even being able to heal half of it is a clear issue/reason for there 10s vs 25s performance.

    What to look for in a good MW? Renewing Mist is casted on cooldown, (give or take a second or two). Thunder Focus Tea is used similar to a Disc Priests Spirit Shell, aka preemptively to setup for large aoe damage, it can be used slightly more liberally though due to a shorter CD.
    Outside of this many other aspects will be very situational such as torpedo vs RSJ, using revival smartly/when called for, general mana management abilities and making smart usage of mana tea. General gearing with stat allocation/ilvl and similar things.

    MW's are not a high tier healer for raids right now (they are still pretty legit in pvp). Expect high overheal numbers and a play style that changes fight to fight. Sometimes they will punch things, sometimes they will channel mists, sometimes they will do both, sometimes there will be healing spheres everywhere. But just focus on making sure they use renewing mist on cooldown and things should go "ok".
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    90 Tauren Warrior
    9560
    Here are the logs from last night's raid [Nazgrim - Garrosh Normal]

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/30a4jnn5n1k92taj/analyze/hd/source/?enc=kills

    Jynxt is my 550 disc priest
    Hershies is a 550 resto druid

    Litebeef/uvoe/mordsith [the monk] are all around the 565+ mark.
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    90 Draenei Monk
    17435
    06/24/2014 06:00 AMPosted by Jynxdt
    MW monks are the worst healing class in the game, at current [in terms of raid cooldown/heal usage]
    MW monks are good at heal sniping
    MW will always be bottom of the charts
    MW due to heal sniping should be in the middle

    Monks aren't in a worse spot than Holy Priests, but they are certainly clunkier and have less control.
    Monks are crap at heal sniping because of this lack of control. Except for Revivaling when someone is Tranqing or something.
    A good MW can be around middle, but it's dependent on the fight and group comp.

    That said, just eyeballing your logs, your MW looks like they are keeping up quite well. The disc is actually someone who should be far ahead of where they are presently.

    One complaint I have is that your MW seems to not be utilizing Eminence much and may not have even been standing in melee on Malkorok?

    They should be using Glyph of Enduring Healing Sphere instead of Glyph of Detox, and Glyph of Surging Mist instead of Glyph of SCK when specced into RJW (or not having to move/use SCK) as RJW does not have the speed penalty (I did not know this for a while either). Glyph of Surging means Surging can be hard cast as a chi builder and smart heal and act as slightly better sniping.

    I'm sure if I picked more through logs I could find some issues but it looks like they are doing a reasonable job with your healing comp for their class. The absorb healers should be doing more.
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    90 Tauren Warrior
    9560
    Thanks for the detailed response Swaggle. She indeed is not standing in melee on Malkorok... we tend to be short ranged for that fight, so she is typically placed at range for puddle absorption.

    We recently lost our really good disc priest and I've had to fill in on my own [this warrior was my previous main]. That being said, I'm rated at 550 [lot of 528 still, and sadly using Nazgrim's trinket..], but only just got my Meta on him post-logs last night, and do not yet have the cloak. Practice will make perfect where CD usage is concerned... was still running very high spirit and also made the switch to a lot more crit last night.

    Appreciate the feedback! Will be studying the abilities you mentioned further.
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    100 Pandaren Monk
    17280
    Looking at the logs your MW is actually doing quite well for himself. Nothing is blatantly wrong with the healing breakdowns from a glance, and ReM usage, while not perfect, is close enough. Considering what he's up against I'd say the others are under performing.

    Like Swaggle said there isn't much Eminence in there, when Spoils and Garrosh (P1) should have seen quite a bit.

    Wish he'd logged out in MW gear to see what that's looking like, but my guess is it should be fine. You've found a good one :D
    Edited by Lumiair on 6/24/2014 1:18 PM PDT
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    90 Tauren Warrior
    9560
    She is logged out in MW gear.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/area-52/Mords%C3%ADth/simple

    We use the stack strat for both P1 and P2 Garrosh. We do not move at all except in P3.
    Edited by Jynxdt on 6/24/2014 1:46 PM PDT
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    100 Draenei Monk
    12080
    She's at a bit of a weird haste point. Glyphs were already mentioned.
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    OP, I hope you are willing to cut your guildie a bit of slack.

    I've been getting hammered by Shaman and Disc priests. To the point that it's starting to get to me.
    I keep plugging away, trying to leverage any opportunity to maximize my healing but honestly, I just don't feel as though I have the chops to keep up. :(

    I pug on this guy. He replaced my Hpaly as my healer when MoP released and I haven't looked back until now. don't get me wrong, I'm in it for the long haul but this tier is just getting worse for me the longer it goes.

    As a matter of fact, I kind of hit the wall once the proposed changes to MW (for WoD) came out. Not that anything changed, but I sorta...lost my groove. More of a mental hang-up than anything, I suppose.

    Considering what some of my fellow posters are saying, you have a good MW. Encourage them and support them. Just be aware that we have our limitations.

    I'm not offering advice, per se. I don't feel that I'm in a position to do so. I got my own problems to sort out. /grumble.

    Happy huntiing
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    100 Pandaren Monk
    8565
    Your MW could be doing well above the healing on Malkorok, it's really the only fight (ESPECIALLY in 25man) where we look good on the meters. With Thok trinket, and using Chi Burst on cd through the regular ReM/Uplift rotation, as well as RJW if standing in melee, can easily pull ahead of most classes on that fight.
    Other than that, your MW seems to be doing quite well :)

    EDIT: Haste seems weird. 6141 or 9158 is optimal haste levels for that point, your weaver seems stuck in the middle.
    Edited by Volißear on 6/24/2014 4:56 PM PDT
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    5 Orc Monk
    0
    As others have said he seems to be doing fine all things considered.

    96%+ uptime on renewing mist, thats fine. If you have some down time and he has to restart or there are wipes and such this can easily explain it.

    He only casted Cocoon 6 times during the the course of the log. He could be saving this for more emergency style situations which is totally fine but I've found it better to simply use like I would a spirit shell just for the MT though. Notably he casted it at relevant times looking at the log except near the end where he held it for too long (imo). This is an insanely minor thing and and will really not make a huge difference but it would likely pad his numbers slightly more.
    Realistically I'd say this should be a 1-2 times per boss fight kinda spell in an ideal world. But its also a good panic button if a tank is getting wrecked. It really depends of the situation and smoothness for the raid. LFR you hold it for emergencies but a farming raid generally be more liberal with its usage.

    He had lots of RSJ healing, which is fine. But relatively little eminence healing. This means positioning wise he was likely not in/near melee. This can be riskier if the tanks are not positioning well or in fights that are simply melee unfriendly. I'm not sure it would have contributed much in effective healing when looking at the heals hes competing against and in the situations where it would have had strong contributions it likely would have been unfeesible to be in melee.
    Malkorok is a notable exception, and this is the only fight where he has a remote prayer of topping the meters.

    In general the fact hes showing up #2 on the meters behind a resto shaman in a raid with disc priest aswell in a large scale raid no less is already showing pretty solid performance. In a straight up contest the monk will pretty much never out perform the shaman outside of maybe malkorok. The shaman heals more targets, with less input, faster. I mean look at the logs yourself, do you see those healing spikes from the shaman compared to everyone else?
    I'd say your monk is fine and if you stress over logs too much you are just going to start a heal sniping war where people are wasting CD's to push there meters when its not whats best for the raid.
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    90 Human Paladin
    10220
    06/24/2014 06:25 AMPosted by Rexxee
    healers


    06/24/2014 06:25 AMPosted by Rexxee
    sniping each other.


    Pretty much this. Healing went from working together to make sure everyone stays alive to everyone rolling a resto shaman or resto druid to pad meters
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    90 Tauren Warrior
    9560
    Well I came here with 2 goals in mind.

    1) To learn more about MW and how they work.
    2) To have someone who already knows the above more intricately than myself, judge the data set in front of them.

    I believe the entire raid should work as a team, especially the healing and tank cores. I'm not looking to start a snipe war, but what I needed to know is where this particular class should be at in a performance setting, and you all have answered just that.

    I literally just switched to Disc priest, and arguably until I switched my gems just the other day, was not even close to my full potential. We had a very geared disc priest and a holy priest who left, and it put a void in our healing team. However when we had those two, the MW monk was dead set at the bottom. Our healing team typically went as follows:
    Disc priest [580]
    Holy Pirest [580]
    Resto sham [550+]
    Holy Pal [550+]
    Mw [550+]

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/q5u8vp30igrjih07/analyze/hd/source/?s=3602&e=4102

    Was a Garrosh only fight, and our Hpriest was either Shadow or was sat for that particular kill. I merely link it as that is what the numbers were looking like in a typical fight where there was at least a decent amount of healing to be done, though the paladin usually tends to be above the MW.

    Thanks so much for all of your input, it has been very helpful!
    Edited by Jynxdt on 6/25/2014 9:32 AM PDT
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    100 Troll Druid
    9955
    06/24/2014 07:40 AMPosted by Jynxdt
    However, logically speaking, if they are supposedly contributing DPS while other healers are busy sniping each other, wouldn't it be better to have a another Disc priest in that slot then? Seeing as how Disc also DPS while healing, and they provide better cooldowns?

    Yes, it's not uncommon to have 2-3 Disc healers.
    Reply Quote
    100 Tauren Druid
    15070
    MW is in a bad spot atm. The REM/Uplift mechanic is garbage. Takes too mich time to push it up to 10-12 then it drops off immediately and you have to start all over again. Very labor intensive with minor return. Our dps is nothing to note in raids. I enjoy the hell out of the playstyle but our HPS is always depressing.
    Edited by Iresistabull on 6/29/2014 9:30 PM PDT
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    100 Pandaren Monk
    8565
    06/29/2014 09:30 PMPosted by Iresistabull
    MW is in a bad spot atm. The REM/Uplift mechanic is garbage. Takes too mich time to push it up to 10-12 then it drops off immediately and you have to start all over again. Very labor intensive with minor return. Our dps is nothing to note in raids. I enjoy the hell out of the playstyle but our HPS is always depressing.


    MW is competitive in 10man because you can blanket the entire raid with ReM with the correctly timed use of TFT.
    25man, I know dat feel ._.
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    100 Blood Elf Priest
    16965
    Don't compare mistweavers and disc priests please.. I could probably outheal my mistweaver on every fight just my pressing divine star.

    Obvious one is the haste breakpoint, needs to be 9158 in tiger stance, that 7k haste point does no good. This will do a major improvement.

    Then there are questionnable talent choices per fight. Example is Malkorok, you are doing normal mode, which is chi torpedo paradise, and all I see is surging mist spam, I believe I have never even used that spell in 25 man Malkorok. On that fight, you do Revival at the start of the fight to top the shields and once it's back it's pretty close to the end of a blood rage, with pre-pot and trinket procs, the revival will hit for like 12M sometimes, even more if you have a cloak proc.

    On Nazgrim, which spec rushing jade wind if you don't use it? Go Xuen and use it as a cooldown or sit in melee and RJW.

    Honestly the more I check your logs, the more I think your issue is your disc priest lol, so many mistakes there. I think it's the first time I ever see "divine star" as top heals on Thok, and almost no Power Word: Shield.

    And little tips, swap to Warcraft Logs, it's a lot better to analyze fights,

    But seriously, I went to my disc priest from my mistweaver especially to help with easier farming, it's a lot of work to be competitive and most mistweavers are either on a break, playing another class or trying to min/max their dps at this point because there is nothing to heal in SOO.
    Edited by Macphisto on 6/30/2014 12:24 AM PDT
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