Confusion about Rshaman stat priority

100 Troll Druid
6760
Hey guys!
I pre-ordered WoD, and decided to boost a shammy (the healer I was most interested in, after this toon). I'm loving it, but I have a bit of confusion about my stat priorities...

So I found out the wonders of crit as an undergeared shammy! it was great. I stacked crit and more crit and more crit.. and got a bit geared, quite a bit, and stopped running OOM.

And now I don't know what stat to spec into. The effectiveness of crit (at least the way I understand it) diminishes if you don't need more mana; reforging out of spirit seems like a bad idea, because of MTT; mastery is probably absolutely worthless past 50% this late in the expansion; and haste.. I mean, is a heavy haste build even viable on resto shammies? Seems a bit.. questionable to me; like I know they have quite a bit of significant breakpoints, but I'm playing on 250 ping (read online that totem breakpoints are latency dependent) but they're in the end hard-casters and not a HoT class at all.

I'd love if anyone could clear up my confusion and explain a bit what the heck do you do when you have enough mana for all your needs?
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100 Troll Shaman
18880
No real tight answer. Depends on what you want to do. Lot also depends on the group you are running with. Right now i am messing around with 18300 haste an eote build. Many run with 9k haste and the rest crit. Some run with crazy mastery. Shamans probably have the most choice in build out of all of the healing classes. Best answer i can give you is, try out different things and see what works best or you,
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100 Night Elf Druid
20570
06/28/2014 07:54 AMPosted by Shareoff
Hey guys!
I pre-ordered WoD, and decided to boost a shammy (the healer I was most interested in, after this toon). I'm loving it, but I have a bit of confusion about my stat priorities...

So I found out the wonders of crit as an undergeared shammy! it was great. I stacked crit and more crit and more crit.. and got a bit geared, quite a bit, and stopped running OOM.

And now I don't know what stat to spec into. The effectiveness of crit (at least the way I understand it) diminishes if you don't need more mana; reforging out of spirit seems like a bad idea, because of MTT; mastery is probably absolutely worthless past 50% this late in the expansion; and haste.. I mean, is a heavy haste build even viable on resto shammies? Seems a bit.. questionable to me; like I know they have quite a bit of significant breakpoints, but I'm playing on 250 ping (read online that totem breakpoints are latency dependent) but they're in the end hard-casters and not a HoT class at all.

I'd love if anyone could clear up my confusion and explain a bit what the heck do you do when you have enough mana for all your needs?


The effectiveness of Crit doesn't really diminish when you don't need the mana that severely. The output portion of Crit alone still far outperforms haste outside of breakpoints, will outperform Mastery in the vast majority of situations, and obviously outperforms Spirit if you "don't need the mana".

The "cookie cutter" Resto Shaman stat priority build is

ilvl 525 - ~560 - Haste to 7613 > Spirit to comfort > Crit > Mastery > More Spirit > More Haste
560+ - Haste to ~9100 > Spirit to comfort > Crit > Mastery > More Spirit > More Haste

Assuming you take Ancestral Swiftness, it's generally accepted that there are only really 4 haste breakpoints that are worth going to:

-871 - For very low gear levels - this is basically avoiding haste completely as much as possible

-7613 - Adds an extra HR tick and is attainable in early to mid ToT gear levels

-~9100 - Adds an HST tick and also adds a HTT tick if you're Troll and use Berserking with HTT. The actual breakpoint is 8916, but totem breakpoints have latency fluctuations, so you need to generally exceed them by 100-200 haste rating to reliably hit them. You probably can't realistically get haste lower than this in BiS/575+ gear

-15,316 - Adds a second HR breakpoint and generally requires 565+ gear. You lose a lot of Crit/secondary stats getting to this breakpoint, and it's very debatable if its a gain (I personally don't think it is).

There's very little gain from being between these points (I guess you can play around with Elemental Mastery and getting 5% more haste on gear if you want). That means that Crit is kind of your default stat to stack once you are at the desired haste breakpoint and Spirit level.
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100 Troll Shaman
13685
06/28/2014 07:54 AMPosted by Shareoff
And now I don't know what stat to spec into. The effectiveness of crit (at least the way I understand it) diminishes if you don't need more mana; reforging out of spirit seems like a bad idea, because of MTT; mastery is probably absolutely worthless past 50% this late in the expansion


First of all. There is no such thing as a 50% Mastery soft cap. As you gain more Mastery your heals scale linearly at set health values. For instance if you have 40% Mastery and heal a target at 60% HP, your heal will be increased by 16%. If you have 70% Mastery and heal the same target, your heal will be increased by 28%. Whats more, as health drops you are further increasing the gain from Mastery. So with our same two Shaman as before but this time they are healing on a target with 1 health. The Shaman with 40% Mastery's heal will be increased by 40% whereas the Shaman with 70% Mastery's heal is increased by 70%.

With the amount of burst damage going around Mastery will be beneficial unless you are significantly over healing encounters.

As far as Crit and Spirit go. As Tib said, Crit doesn't lose value because you have too much mana but Spirit does. Try not to worry about Mana Tide too much. The only healing class that really needs to worry about mana right now are Resto Druids and they can easily get enough Spirit from gear (I guess Holy Priests too but those are few and far between). Drop your Spirit to where you are comfortable, you're not a mana battery anymore.
Edited by Duglawaha on 6/28/2014 11:04 AM PDT
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100 Troll Druid
6760
I do understand the concept of mastery not having a real cap, hard or soft whatsoever, and I do think I understand how it works. I'd just imagine it's an inferior stat in current raid environment where basically everything is overhealed (especially in flex, which is most of what I'm doing as of now!)

Regardless, thanks for the informative responses! That's great help. I just find shamans a bit puzzling in that respect because most healers have a -best- throughput secondary stat (although I suppose hpriests are in a bit of a similar position). I just tend to think that if crit doesn't synergize with the spec in a really special way (AKA disc priests) then it's an inferior stat because "other stats" will give you more throughput. The things playing a resto druid as your first character does to you.. haha. :P
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100 Troll Shaman
13685
06/28/2014 11:34 AMPosted by Shareoff
do understand the concept of mastery not having a real cap, hard or soft whatsoever, and I do think I understand how it works. I'd just imagine it's an inferior stat in current raid environment where basically everything is overhealed (especially in flex, which is most of what I'm doing as of now!)


I believe Tib did some math a bit ago and he'll correct me if I'm wrong. For Mastery to outperform Crit you need to heal on targets <65% health for AoE spells and <45% health for single target spells. So in that regard it may be inferior. However Mastery is still a net gain to through put compared to Haste between break points and Spirit that regens more mana than you can spend over the course of a fight.

Which is why this is the general stat priority even in a Crit build.

06/28/2014 09:28 AMPosted by Tiberriaa
560+ - Haste to ~9100 > Spirit to comfort > Crit > Mastery > More Spirit > More Haste
Edited by Duglawaha on 6/28/2014 1:29 PM PDT
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90 Goblin Shaman
14310
Mastery is currently not a great stat with the massive amount of outgearing content people do.

In a flex environment a healthy dose of haste and crit will make you look better on the meters if that is what you want to do.

if you are more interested in saving lives than looking good on meters, nothing will beat mastery.

I only run about 6k haste currently at a 576 ilvl due to the fact that I primarily do 10 man raiding with people that don't try to do anything hard.

if you're doing easy content... do whatever you like. If you are planning to push max hps in a 25 man heroic progression raid, focus a bit more into haste and mastery and use as little crit and spirit as you can get away with.
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90 Draenei Shaman
15030
I use http://www.totemspot.com/vb/entry.php?b=41 and go haste to the 8882 breakpoint (+3 HST / +2 HR) and the rest crit. Works well enough for flex; if I decide to move up to a more progression-oriented guild I may switch over to mastery, but I came back pretty late in the tier.
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100 Troll Shaman
18880
06/29/2014 04:42 AMPosted by Kessiaan
go haste to the 8882 breakpoint


Better to push it to 9k. Though 8882 is the number it should add the extra tick, something has been up with the ticks of totems this entire expansion.
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100 Troll Druid
6760
While I still have this thread up here, it's not entirely relevant but it's kinda similar (and I hope it's not too much of a noob question): is using a 2h staff viable? or is it only viable to use main hand + off hand?
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100 Tauren Shaman
14445
MH+OH is the best option due to the OH int enchant. The difference overall is not that big, so you can use a 2H if it is of notable better ilvl or stats than your current MH/OH combo. At same ilvl, MH/OH generally wins.
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