Hubs no longer Karabor/Bladespire

90 Worgen Rogue
10850
06/27/2014 10:24 AMPosted by Saelem
Another issue, and this may have already been addressed. Are these new 'cities' considered sanctuaries? How will this effect realms with severe faciton imbalance. Will a server with a lower pop faction end up being attacked by the more populated faction on a daily basis?


According to Holinka's recent tweet, they are able to be invaded. Which completely contradicts Stockton's original series of tweets saying "you will not be forced to PvP"

Well, logic dictates that if we're forced into a PvP zone because our faction hub has inexplicably been moved there, and that faction hub can be invaded by the opposite faction and all the NPCs and the all-important flight masters there killed (because flight isn't a thing anymore), then we are forced into PvP whether we like it or not.

I would have thought you guys learned from the backlash over the PvP part of the legendary questline in MoP. If people want to PvP, they will do it regardless of any outside factors. Players that wanted to do Ashran will do so, they need no incentive. But forcing these same players that dislike PvP to start with into a situation they did not want or ask for will not make them enjoy it any more than they currently do. On the contrary, it will make them further resent it and dislike it even more, if history is any indicator.

I think this is a singularly awful choice, especially given that there's been no explanation or reasoning behind it. Karabor and Bladespire have been touted for nearly a year as our epic capital cities and they were both just that with unique and gorgeous architecture and lore behind each. To pull the rug out from that and make them nothing more than quest hubs for 1/5 of your journey, replacing them with more damn generic human and orc camps frankly just sucks.

Don't remove these capital cities because it will force players to be in the zones you want them to be in. If you want people out in the world or in Ashran, make compelling content there for players to be interested in doing in the first place and there will be no need to shoehorn them into it.
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06/27/2014 11:08 AMPosted by Eccah
I think this is a singularly awful choice, especially given that there's been no explanation or reasoning behind it. Karabor and Bladespire have been touted for nearly a year as our epic capital cities and they were both just that with unique and gorgeous architecture and lore behind each. To pull the rug out from that and make them nothing more than quest hubs for 1/5 of your journey, replacing them with more damn generic human and orc camps frankly just sucks.


I agree. They already have Bladespire and Karabor mostly done, there was NO REASON to move the hubs from these awesome, unique, lore rich places to generic hubs for the sake of 'wpvp.' Especially when, frankly, wpvpers are a minority in the game. I'm all for throwing WPvP a bone here and there, but moving our main faction hubs from awesome, unique places to generic hubs would be a terrible mistake.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
17050
Adding my voice to those who think this is a bad idea. For the first time since vanilla, we were going to have extremely unique and different faction hubs. Hubs that are decidedly horde or alliance and feel amazing to be in. Bladespire felt amazing, honestly. One of the major things that feels cool about places like Stormwind or Orgrimmar is the fact that they are overwhelmingly their faction. If you are alliance go to Org, you feel like you're going into another world. If you're alliance and you go to the horde shrine, you don't really get that feeling. They're not unique at all. They don't feel "good" so to speak.

I didn't like the Shrines in MoP and I don't like the idea of Shrines Part 2 in WoD. Having it in the PvP zone feels even worse. I don't enjoy feeling like I'm being pressured into PvPing when I have no desire to PvP. Having them in the PvP zone will do that, even if it isn't "required."

I really hope this decision is reversed.
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90 Human Mage
12970
I kind of get why they're doing it. The PvP zone is in a centralized location while the previous capitals were on opposite sides of the map. With that centralized location, players are able to get to anywhere on the continent in roughly the same amount of time.

To be honest, they should have thought ahead there and realized that would be an issue with the original locations.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
14940
06/27/2014 11:51 AMPosted by Tritha
I kind of get why they're doing it. The PvP zone is in a centralized location while the previous capitals were on opposite sides of the map. With that centralized location, players are able to get to anywhere on the continent in roughly the same amount of time.

Can't imagine a "centralized location" has much of anything to do with it, since Ashran is an island (i.e. the rest of the continent is inaccessible by land mount). If portals and/or long flight paths can work for the "near Ashran" faction hubs, then they'd work just as well in Bladespire Citadel & Karabor.
Edited by Purge on 6/27/2014 12:57 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Priest
15415
I agree with all of this. Blizzard, please. I do not want another generic human or orc camp. I would also like it if they weren't within sight of each other, thanks.
06/27/2014 11:32 AMPosted by Mist
Adding my voice to those who think this is a bad idea. For the first time since vanilla, we were going to have extremely unique and different faction hubs. Hubs that are decidedly horde or alliance and feel amazing to be in. Bladespire felt amazing, honestly. One of the major things that feels cool about places like Stormwind or Orgrimmar is the fact that they are overwhelmingly their faction. If you are alliance go to Org, you feel like you're going into another world. If you're alliance and you go to the horde shrine, you don't really get that feeling. They're not unique at all. They don't feel "good" so to speak.

I didn't like the Shrines in MoP and I don't like the idea of Shrines Part 2 in WoD. Having it in the PvP zone feels even worse. I don't enjoy feeling like I'm being pressured into PvPing when I have no desire to PvP. Having them in the PvP zone will do that, even if it isn't "required."
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90 Night Elf Druid
14940
Disregard, somebody else already started ashran is an island
Edited by Saelem on 6/27/2014 12:09 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
8140
I would like to add my voice into this as well. I, too dislike how they are doing the whole capital cities/hubs thing in Warlords. I really hope Alliance gets Karabor and Horde get Bladespire. We want something unique and beautiful to look at, and not some generic huts that we have seen a thousand times.
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58 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
Aw shucks guys. I know this is a controversial topic and a lot of people are passionate about it, but the like/dislike system is for highlighting quality posts and hiding trollish/offensive posts. If someone posts something that you may not necessarily agree with but still contributes to the discussion, don't dislike the post. :\ It's good to get opinions from all sides of an issue as long as they're constructive.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
15100
I look forward to seeing how it feels in game, and hope to give more detailed feedback at that point.

Right now, however, I am very disappointed in this news. Especially with Garrisons leaning heavily on Human and Orc architecture, having something with a different favor for the faction hubs was hugely exciting. As it stands, I feel that this is going to be extremely boring, and I especially don't want to be forced into combat for my hub city, and I was so excited to have Karabor.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
15100
06/27/2014 05:01 AMPosted by Syradaria
06/27/2014 04:21 AMPosted by Simca
I see nothing wrong with both the Ashran hubs and Karabor/Bladesprire hosting both A) and B). It devalues nothing.

As long as Ashran has a more central location, people will naturally flock there like the devs want, and it won't ruin the experience for those who want to stay elsewhere.

I would disagree that placement isn't a large issue though. The last time a capital wasn't central in an expansion was... never - original WoW only. Roughly 8 years ago.

Clearly Blizzard cares about placement of capitals or they wouldn't have done Dalaran, Shattrath, Shrines, and the Earthen Shrine portal hubs of Cata.


Personally, I think that they should just extend trade to all major cities (e.g. Crossroads, Booty Bay, Tarren Mill, Valliance Keep and Warsong Hold, Darkshire, Hammerfall). And Toss one-way portals to the main cities in some of them. Then people wouldn't feel quite so bound to sticking around in trade-linked main cities.


Honestly, this could be a really good solution. Even if the Ashran hubs have some perks that Karabor and Bladespire don't, there's no reason both can't be viable as hubs- give them both Trade chat, banks, profession trainers, vendors... restrict the portals to the Ashran bases if that makes more sense, but the addition of Trade Chat to Karabor and Bladespire would go a long way towards making them feel viable if people prefer them.
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90 Pandaren Monk
14940
I had been really looking forward to seeing, questing, but most of all LIVING in Karabor while in Draenor. It was something I was eagerly excited for, and seeing it change to near Ashran really disappointed me. Alliance should be living with the Draenei in Karabor, that's where Velen called home and unless something is going to happen to it, we should call it home as well.
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We haven't actually seen what these new capitols would look like - maybe they would be great looking. And more to the point, give Ashran some actual stakes as opposed to a generic pvp zone that really adds nothing and means nothing (like say Tol Barad).
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06/27/2014 12:46 PMPosted by Jarlson
We haven't actually seen what these new capitols would look like - maybe they would be great looking. And more to the point, give Ashran some actual stakes as opposed to a generic pvp zone that really adds nothing and means nothing (like say Tol Barad).


They can add meaning to Ashran by giving it some lore. Putting bases next to it won't automatically make it more interesting or more engaging from a story perspective.

It's possible they might surprise us and the new hubs won't be rushed, uncreative orc/human generic outposts, but it's hard to believe they'll be half as interesting as Bladespire and Karabor.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10260
06/27/2014 12:52 PMPosted by Malzra
They can add meaning to Ashran by giving it some lore. Putting bases next to it won't automatically make it more interesting or more engaging from a story perspective. It's possible they might surprise us and the new hubs won't be rushed, uncreative orc/human generic outposts, but it's hard to believe they'll be half as interesting as Bladespire and Karabor.

They could indeed, however as it stands now unless they make it other than human and orc forts many people will be upset.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1542025-Karabor-and-Bladespire-are-no-longer-our-Capital-hubs/page7
The fact that the number of people in the pole that do not like this change is now over a thousand isn't good.
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90 Troll Hunter
15685
06/27/2014 12:46 PMPosted by Jarlson
We haven't actually seen what these new capitols would look like - maybe they would be great looking. And more to the point, give Ashran some actual stakes as opposed to a generic pvp zone that really adds nothing and means nothing (like say Tol Barad).

There's a youtube vid floating around of Ashran, and the map is also there in-game as well. While obviously incomplete, what's there makes it plenty obvious that each faction camp is this tiny little island with 5 or so buildings and a wall in either orc or human flavored style. They're about the size of your faction city in say, Twilight Highlands, to give you an idea.
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Community Manager
Okay, there’s a LOT of misunderstandings and misinformation floating around, so let me try to clarify what I can.

Warlords of Draenor’s story is about the people of Azeroth (namely, the Alliance and the Horde) venturing into an unknown world and building up a force strong enough to take out an enemy stronger than anything they’ve encountered before, on that enemy’s own turf. While there are certainly some alliances to be made along the way, and those are definitely major parts of the story, the core theme is about you and your faction fighting for survival.

So, as development continued, we came to the realization that it just doesn’t make sense for the Horde and Alliance to spend so much energy and resources building up a stronghold on Draenor, only to base their efforts out of someone else’s city. We’re not helping the Draenei or Frostwolves fight off the Iron Horde – they’re helping us. The Alliance and Horde both have major bases of operation on Draenor. That should be where they’re working from.

That, along with the continued development of Garrisons into the overall quest and story flow of the expansion, led us to the decision to develop the Horde and Alliance bases on Ashran into the major faction hubs instead of Bladespire and Karabor. Promoting the world PvP area on Ashran is a nice perk, but it wasn’t a factor in making that decision.

That said, the Temple of Karabor and Bladespire Fortress are still there. We haven’t removed them or anything like that. You won’t be able to use your bank or check your auctions there, but they’re still fully built home cities for the Karabor Draenei and Frostwolf Orcs, respectively. You’ll still be able to explore them in their full glory.

As to the Alliance and Horde staging areas on Ashran, allow me to lay out a few key facts to hopefully allay some concerns:

  • They’re located on Ashran as a geographical location on the map, but they’re not part of the Ashran world PvP zone. They won’t be subjected to the realm coalescing we’re using to keep Ashran’s PvP area populated, and they won’t flag you for PvP on non-PvP realms.
  • We’ve also made some major improvements to the way PvP flagging works on non-PvP realms that removes “accidental flagging” from mistargeted abilities or ground effects. Unless you manually flag yourself by typing /pvp, you will simply not be able to attack enemy players, or heal friendly players who have flagged themselves.
  • They’re populated with guards, and the only land-based entrance is directly through the Ashran world PvP zone (including a major fortress). It’s certainly possible for someone from another faction to attack it, but it’s not any easier to do so than it is to attack the enemy faction’s shrine in the Vale of Eternal Blossoms.
  • There will be a fast travel option between the staging areas and your Garrison. You can pop over there quickly, conduct your business, and leave again if you like.


This isn’t a question of whether or not Bladespire and Karabor are cities. They are. It’s just a question of whether the portals to Orgrimmar or Stormwind are there or somewhere else. You’ll still be able to explore them, they’ll still be fully populated, and they’re still going to be every bit as beautiful as they would have been with a Transmog NPC. We’re looking forward to them ourselves!
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90 Draenei Priest
14175
06/27/2014 02:48 PMPosted by Plainswander
Translation: "no, really, you'll like it"

"and if you don't, we don't care"

Lovely.
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90 Human Warrior
14115
This an utterly awful design decision, especially when we were told and promised at Blizzcon we would have these amazing cities.

Is Redridge a city? Is the Crossroads a "city"? Is Gadgetzan a city? Yes. How many people hang out there? The fact that they are still "cities" doesn't mean jack.

It's not about the stupid PvP. It's about the horrible thought process of the developers and, FURTHERMORE, the absolutely terrible, condescending responses we were given once told of news this monumental, news that we never could have imagined hearing because most of us had some ounce of trust in Blizzard.

Not anymore.

I know you did not make the decision, Lore, but man you were picked to be the messenger of the absolute worst news thus far.
Edited by Agalladorn on 6/29/2014 2:03 AM PDT
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