Anyone else getting tired of the pally hate?

80 Tauren Death Knight
2825
12/13/2010 4:41 AMPosted by Dodia
Also, I'd like to hear exactly how holy paladins are OP instead of just logs. Like, what exactly makes us OP? Easier to counter that way.

View the logs. If pallys are outhealing all the other classes by a substantial margin, do you think it's because all the skilled healers play a pally now?

Last note, even if we are in better shape than other healers, it would be stupid to nerf us. Buffing other healers would be better.

I don't think anyone is asking for a pally nerf. We want buffs...
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80 Tauren Death Knight
2825
12/13/2010 4:45 AMPosted by Wuxian
The fact is this; Cata healing is completely centered around the style of healing that paladins have always used . Single target spam healing. AoE healing is fairly unnecessary at this point. All i do is earth shield tank, keep riptide on cd (use on tank mostly or whoever might need a quick prop-up), spam healing wave (my low cost low output heal). If I know that the group is going to take aoe damage ill throw a healing rain down and spam more healing wave throughout the group. It's not hard really once you get a little gear and get to understand your new paladin style healing roll. They have made all classes capable of doing this.

I don't want to be a pseudo-pally. If I liked the pally's healing style, I would have rolled one...

I miss the resto druid's super-active HoT style of healing...

=T
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85 Worgen Druid
3220
12/13/2010 4:52 AMPosted by Frosthourne
12/13/2010 4:45 AMPosted by Wuxian
The fact is this; Cata healing is completely centered around the style of healing that paladins have always used . Single target spam healing. AoE healing is fairly unnecessary at this point. All i do is earth shield tank, keep riptide on cd (use on tank mostly or whoever might need a quick prop-up), spam healing wave (my low cost low output heal). If I know that the group is going to take aoe damage ill throw a healing rain down and spam more healing wave throughout the group. It's not hard really once you get a little gear and get to understand your new paladin style healing roll. They have made all classes capable of doing this.

I don't want to be a pseudo-pally. If I liked the pally's healing style, I would have rolled one...

I miss the resto druid's super-active HoT style of healing...

=T


Amen.

And we all know that healing is now exactly setup towards how paladins have always healed. Blizzard wants to make everything the same, and dumb it all down. Fine, I can live with that.

What I cannot stomach is the fact that they gave Paladins a ton of new stuff... TO HEAL THE WAY THEY ALWAYS HAVE!!! Who said they needed a cone-heal? Who said they needed a new mechanic ala Holy Power?

And yet when you look over at Resto Druids, you see that we have the exact same spells we always have, the exact same mechanic, its all just exactly the same, with beefed up mana costs and toned down heal ratios.

I want a new mechanic. I want something new for Resto druids. If Blizz is going to be handing out Chakra's and Holy Power, I think it is fair to request something new for Nature oriented Healers.

Including Shaman, who as far as I can tell also lost out on getting any new mechanic.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3210
12/13/2010 3:02 AMPosted by Seladrys
Aren't pallies still bugged and sending every proc of Protector of the Innocent through Beacon?


Not quite. From what I've been able to tell from studying my logs, heals on the Beacon target don't trigger the bug.

In any event, estimating from my logs, the bug doesn't seem to account for more than maybe 3% of my total healing (probably less).

Some claim that Light of Dawn is currently ignoring its target limit (which would be totally broken), but since I'm lucky if I even hit 5 targets in a non-raid instance, so far I have no way of verifying it personally.
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1 Troll Mage
0
Everyone knows paladins are for noobs. Lowest of the losw your opinions aren't worth more than a frost mages for all we care.
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80 Tauren Death Knight
2825
And yet when you look over at Resto Druids, you see that we have the exact same spells we always have, the exact same mechanic, its all just exactly the same, with beefed up mana costs and toned down heal ratios.

^This. I was a stronger healer at level 80... In fact, I should have stayed level 80. I bet the level 80 version of my druid can outheal the level 85 version of my druid.

Is there a way to give back levels and go back to level 80?

Omg... Maybe I can ask for an Account Restoration and get my druid back to level 80 with his level 80 gear... ROFL. This is just sad...

=]
Edited by Frosthourne on 12/13/2010 5:40 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5365
12/12/2010 2:39 PMPosted by Infiltrator
12/12/2010 10:43 AMPosted by Kyaza
I'm so sick and tired of people saying "Pallies got the better healing stick" because it's simply not true.


it is true.


In all honesty, as a holy paladin. yeah, we got some nice tricks. Hopefully they can find some way to bring the rest of the classes up to our level.
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
2830
12/12/2010 10:43 AMPosted by Kyaza
Start playing smart and stop qqing about pallies. We have it just as rough but you don't see us complaining as much as the rest of you because we've always had the harder healing job with no good aoe spells in our arsenal and adapt a little more quickly.


Fact of the matter is that pallies are totally OP, no matter what spec. When I have an 85 priest friend healing me and NEEDING me to be using my defensive CD's constantly to keep up with normal pulls and then a lolret pally crit healing me for 130k which is more than my total HP at the moment, and then having to drink every mob or three just to have enough mana vs the few pallies Ive run with drinking maybe once or twice tops a whole run theres really no way you can say that pallies didnt end up better off. This is just in the 83-85 bracket running stonecore mind, but all I forsee is mana regen being SLIGHTLY better until all of the tier gears are the norm again and even then its iffy.

Pallies dont have good AoE's because their single target healing is insanely good, if you want better AoE's then dont complain if you get them and your single target healing gets nerfed. When its down to other classes as healer using freaking bandages because they are OOM from full on a normal pull then something needs to change. I think everyone needs to take into account that (as far as I am aware) there have been no patches since Cata was officially launched, so I would expect big changes in the not too distant future, healing at the moment is just ridiculous.
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85 Night Elf Priest
2625
12/12/2010 11:07 AMPosted by Kyaza
But I'm saying pallies are having just as many problems as the rest of the classes, but in other ways. Like learning how to play one again...


You're heals are better, but you say that's fair because you have to learn to play your class again....you know, just like all the other healing classes who don't have your heals.
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11 Tauren Shaman
40
So many myths and misconceptions in this thread coming from both sides of the fence.

First off I'll be the first to say outright that Paladins have the best mana management system going right now. Anyone that says otherwise is full of it. Is it a perfect system? No. Is it better than any other healer? Heads and shoulders above. With the ability to get free heals off Holy Power and Judging/Melee swinging there really is no need to ever use Divine Plea in heroics. I have finished Heroic encounters with my mana at 75% or above often and rarely do I have to drink if the group is running smoothly. However, like other classes, if the encounter is not running smoothly (see bad group) than I run oom very fast trying to keep them up and eventually there is nothing I can do. That is the way it SHOULD be for every healer.

Secondly to say that the heals off Holy Power are weak is so dumb I just am stunned. WoG crits for over 20K heals and fairly often, plus with Eternal Glory it has a good chance of procing a second free heal to use either LoD or WoG. LoD when used in a heroic transfers a good portion of health to the tank while keeping the rest up for a good sized FREE heal, and it's instant. Anyone that dismisses those two heals out of hand as weak really has not business standing here arguing with other classes. At least be honest with what we have, don't make it sound like it's pathetic. You're not doing anyone any favors by saying stuff like that.

Now onto raids and the dominance of Paladins. See the above two points for some of the reasons that Paladins are dominating healing in raids. Mana efficiency is playing a big part of it, if you can last longer you are more free to heal more often. You aren't going to be second guessing your heals, you're just going to react to the situations and do your best to keep people up. Having said that there is another big factor in it, Holy Radience. Now here is where some of the anti-paladin people are wrong. Holy Radience puts out a good amount of healing but it's weak healing. It's one of those triage spells that slows down the incoming death but doesn't really reverse it. Once it's done (the aoe damage) Paladins still have to single target heal people up and without the aoe strength of other classes this may take a while to do. In other words, while the numbers look big they aren't necessarly life saving. It is a nice spell but when it is over you're still left with a big mess of health bars.

The other thing I would like to take issue with is the crying about holy paladins. I've seen posts in this thread about not wanting them nerfed and then talking about bugs (like people assuming that these are bugs when they may or may not be). Don't ask for nerfs, it won't make you feel better about your class, at the end of the day you'll still have the same issues you had before but now some other class will be just as miserable as you are. But I do guess that misery loves company.

Also people need to realize that while the playstyle has changed for alot of the healing classes it has not so much changed for paladins. Yes we have a few new tools but our basic heal style remains unchanged. We still focus heavly on single target spells (though some of them have become instant now) and still spam a small amount of buttons. The main difference is we have more tools to play with interweaved with that. Some paladins haven't gotten it yet (like the OP) but others have eased into the playstyle more readily and are finding that the new tools work well with our old playstyle. Other classes are still learning to heal like we've always healed. Gone are the days of putting up massive numbers with aoe spells because the mana to do that doesn't exist anymore. Now are the days of learning to be efficient and picking who you can heal and who you cant. All encounters fall into three categories now, do I heal to maintain, do I heal to save, do I let them die. The first category is the one you want to focus on, the second should be alot more uncommon and the last should be rare (unless people are stupid). If you follow that ratio you should do a lot better in your healing situations.

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11 Tauren Shaman
40
Lastly the idea that paladin heals are somehow better than other healers. Come on folks, really? All the base healing is almost exactly the same. The differences are so small that they are almost non-existant. My Holy light is not magically better than yours, get that Wrath mentality out of your head. My regen is better but my heals are not. I suppose people will always cry about things like that because anything short of having the best numbers is just not good enough. Take a look at the spells, compare them properly and you'll see that the basic toolbox is the same for all healers, with only slight minor differences.

Oh and while I'm on that topic, the idea of wanting new spells, new toys. Sigh. Again, really? Paladins had by far the smallest toolbox and warrented the most new abilities to bring them inline with the toolboxes of other healing classes. Yes Paladins got new abilities, yay, Druids didn't, boo. But all that did was bring the toolboxes in line with each other. Paladins also lost some of the tools they had from BC and Wrath in the process. That is the dumbest thing to argue about. I can see the argument that someone has with their tools not being up to the task, but to argue for new things just for the sake of new things is pretty lame. And I honestly didn't see these arguments in support of paladins in previous xpacs when they got little new tools to help deal with things. Focus on the tools you have, if they aren't enough to do the job or can't be brought up to do the job then argue for new tools, but I don't see any new tools that a Druid needs that don't exist (keep in mind that I'm arguing here that current tools can be used to do the job if they are at proper power levels).
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85 Human Priest
3585
12/12/2010 10:49 AMPosted by Kyaza
Do you have a paladin that you heal heroics with? Unless and until you do, don't talk to me about healing on a pally.


My friend and I compared healing on my priest and his pally this weekend.

The paladin was much easier. I am not hating on paladins. I just would like to see others brought up to par. I think priests are severely lacking. Druids are having issues... not sure about shaman- don't have one high enough to compare.

There's no reason to be angry with paladins over the imbalance. It's not their fault. What is aggravating is that WotLK had such favorable conditions for pallies and druids, I am disappointed that this expansion is getting off to a start with this imbalance. It is reinforcing the idea that priests are subpar healers.

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40 Gnome Mage
0
Anyone who who heals on a pally knows that the 50% BoL does not matter in heroics because you should never be using a cast heal on anything other then the tank. Good pally healers cast heal the tank and holy shock+ WoG/LoD the bad dps Therefore never get the benifit of the 50% BoL. And PoTI rofl, only bad heals take aoe damage so the small heal from it is overheal 90% of the time. And dont get me started on the HR nerfs....

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Pally healing is too high right now and will be nerfed in the next minor patch.

Anyone who thinks otherwise just needs to look at the guilds who are raiding right now. All of them are stacking paladin healers. My friend's guild forced him to go holy for raiding after he spent the last 18 months as ret (and one of their top DPS). Pallies are simply the best healers by about a 10-15% margin right now.
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40 Gnome Mage
0
12/13/2010 7:12 AMPosted by Cirocco
Pally healing is too high right now and will be nerfed in the next minor patch.

Anyone who thinks otherwise just needs to look at the guilds who are raiding right now. All of them are stacking paladin healers. My friend's guild forced him to go holy for raiding after he spent the last 18 months as ret (and one of their top DPS). Pallies are simply the best healers by about a 10-15% margin right now.



Any guild who forces a player to switch specs a few weeks after an expac hits, before everyone is fully geared and before the impending tweaks, is a dumb guild. Fact of the matter is, this game is not balanced around us runing around in quest gear. After a few weeks when everyone is geared and pallys are still "best healers ever" then you have a right to be upset. I know druid and sham healers who are doing perfectly fine healing heroics, the only class that needs help imo are priest, every other class should spend less time crying on forums and more time learning how to heal
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