Anyone else getting tired of the pally hate?

12/13/2010 7:26 AMPosted by Grubbz
12/13/2010 7:12 AMPosted by Cirocco
Pally healing is too high right now and will be nerfed in the next minor patch.

Anyone who thinks otherwise just needs to look at the guilds who are raiding right now. All of them are stacking paladin healers. My friend's guild forced him to go holy for raiding after he spent the last 18 months as ret (and one of their top DPS). Pallies are simply the best healers by about a 10-15% margin right now.



Any guild who forces a player to switch specs a few weeks after an expac hits, before everyone is fully geared and before the impending tweaks, is a dumb guild. Fact of the matter is, this game is not balanced around us runing around in quest gear. After a few weeks when everyone is geared and pallys are still "best healers ever" then you have a right to be upset. I know druid and sham healers who are doing perfectly fine healing heroics, the only class that needs help imo are priest, every other class should spend less time crying on forums and more time learning how to heal


Yeah, I'm sure the guilds who are 9/12+ right now in raids are a bunch of dummies who have no idea how to play this game.

I'm not talking about heroics. Any healer can heal heroics, yes (although they are certainly easier for pallies). Throughput in raids is, conservatively, about 10% higher for paladins vs. other healing specs and pallies will be justifiably nerfed in the near future.
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40 Gnome Mage
0
12/13/2010 7:29 AMPosted by Cirocco
12/13/2010 7:26 AMPosted by Grubbz
[quote="14063102156"]Pally healing is too high right now and will be nerfed in the next minor patch.

Anyone who thinks otherwise just needs to look at the guilds who are raiding right now. All of them are stacking paladin healers. My friend's guild forced him to go holy for raiding after he spent the last 18 months as ret (and one of their top DPS). Pallies are simply the best healers by about a 10-15% margin right now.



Any guild who forces a player to switch specs a few weeks after an expac hits, before everyone is fully geared and before the impending tweaks, is a dumb guild. Fact of the matter is, this game is not balanced around us runing around in quest gear. After a few weeks when everyone is geared and pallys are still "best healers ever" then you have a right to be upset. I know druid and sham healers who are doing perfectly fine healing heroics, the only class that needs help imo are priest, every other class should spend less time crying on forums and more time learning how to heal




yes the ones forcing people to respec this early on are dumb when the mass majority of guilds are making by just fine with any healer. Its too early to jump on the pally bandwagon and start forcing your top dps to respec as a holy. You make it seem like every guild who is raiding right now is stack full of pally healers when in reality on the dumb ones are doing this. The only thing that remains unbalanced in this game are pvp unbalances, pve unbalances get nipped in the butt in that matter of weeks.

Respecing for pve when the content can be done just as well if all healers is just dumb. And yes it can be done with all healers, and if there are imbalances they will be fixed b4 the next tier comes out, then all dumb guilds stacking pallies will kick them to the curb and start stacking something else, becaue they heal 5% better
Edited by Grubbz on 12/13/2010 7:48 AM PST
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1 Blood Elf Priest
0
Ummm correction. Holy paladins are not the most powerful single target healers in terms of throughput. Us Disc priests are. pallies are hybrid tank/raid healers who do none particularly well but this nice little combo happens to work well in 5 man dungeons

/thread
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90 Pandaren Shaman
8455
This thread is the inverse of the "Loken Hates Pally's" threads in early LK.
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85 Human Priest
4455
I don't like class wars, but I can say I'm now working on my Holy Pally (he's 81) and enjoying him.

I don't know if Pallies are OP healers or not. It's easy enough at 81, but then so was my Priest.

Let's face it though - if too high a percentage of the active Healer population is Paladins, changes will come. Blizzard tracks that kind of information and uses it to modify abilities and talents.

That said I haven't had a ton of issues outside of Heroics with my Priest. Heroics are another story, but I suspect they're equally brutal for everyone, unless you're running with people you know.
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85 Dwarf Paladin
3550
OP - it sounds like you just don't have a knack for how to use holy radiance and light of dawn yet. They are quite effective, you just have to figure out how exactly to use them. They may not be pre-cata AE heals, but they don't need to be if you are playing the right way.
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40 Gnome Mage
0
Rotunda your dwarf is very ugly and made me throw up my food a little
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85 Draenei Paladin
9055
12/13/2010 8:04 AMPosted by Rotunda
OP - it sounds like you just don't have a knack for how to use holy radiance and light of dawn yet. They are quite effective, you just have to figure out how exactly to use them. They may not be pre-cata AE heals, but they don't need to be if you are playing the right way.


Actually, I use them when they are necessary for incoming aoe damage. I've realized as I've started getting better gear the two aoe spells scale nicely with spellpower and are very effective (though HR's mana cost is ridiculous and I only use it when LOD isn't the best option or I don't have the holy power to proc it).

There have been a few people here saying that I don't know what I'm doing but the truth of the matter is that I do. WoG is not as good as Light of Dawn because it heals for more and transfers more healing to the beaconed tank so I use it when I can and WoG only if the tank falls below 35 percent health for the crit bonus. I don't spam holy light because I don't like the idea I'm supposed to spam anything anymore (didn't blizz *change* this model???) and in regs I have no mana issues whatsoever.

I will say that perhaps our mana management is better than other healing classes because our judgement every 8 seconds does restore 15 percent of our base mana. But our healing output is just as weak/strong as other healers.

And for those people on these forums going "disc priests have it rough" one of the best disc priests I know told me that this is the most fun he's had healing since vanilla and his guild is clearing heroics with no issue and he's not having mana problems either.
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1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
How many Pallies are on that list simply because groups are taking what they have and going in to get kills instead of waiting for a proper healing core?

If a group has 5 healadins available and open healer slots that they need to fill for a raid, why not take the healadins?
Edited by Ladaris on 12/13/2010 8:21 AM PST
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85 Human Priest
3585
12/13/2010 8:19 AMPosted by Ladaris
How many Pallies are on that list simply because groups are taking what they have and going in to get kills instead of waiting for a proper healing core?

If a group has 5 healadins available and open healer slots that they need to fill for a raid, why not take the healadins?


Right, even if they have priests or druids... why not take the healadins?? =-P (See what I did there? hehe)
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3710
I'm not sure that meters are the best way of evaluating healing in an expansion where healing is supposed to be focused on mana management and decision making.

That said... Paladins have a good kit right now, yes. There are some limitations, but to be honest, they're the kind of limitations that Paladins have been dealing with since the class was created. Paladins got pretty good at finding ways to fill in the holes without tools, and now that they've got a couple, you aren't going to hear too much complaining.

Do other classes have holes in their respective healing kits? Sure. They're supposed to, just like Paladins do. The question is, how substantial are those holes?Are there ways to work around it? Can we try something new, be it using an ability differently, playing around with roles and assignments a bit, gearing differently, what have you?

I'm not saying X class does or doesn't need a buff, or a nerf, or anything of the sort. It's possible (and probably likely) that something is going to have to change shortly after an expansion goes live. At the same time, we don't have it all figured out yet. A week from now, when someone figures out that if you do X, Y, and Z, such and such works way better than anyone ever anticipated, we'd be right back to here. I hate to say it, but giving it some time may be for the best.
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1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
12/13/2010 8:22 AMPosted by Vidomina
12/13/2010 8:19 AMPosted by Ladaris
How many Pallies are on that list simply because groups are taking what they have and going in to get kills instead of waiting for a proper healing core?

If a group has 5 healadins available and open healer slots that they need to fill for a raid, why not take the healadins?


Right, even if they have priests or druids... why not take the healadins?? =-P (See what I did there? hehe)


An open healer slot is a slot that otherwise would not be filled because other classes aren't available. Why not take a priest, druid, or shaman instead? Because they aren't online, aren't 85, or aren't healy spec.
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85 Human Priest
3585
12/13/2010 8:35 AMPosted by Dompally
I'm not sure that meters are the best way of evaluating healing in an expansion where healing is supposed to be focused on mana management and decision making.

That said... Paladins have a good kit right now, yes. There are some limitations, but to be honest, they're the kind of limitations that Paladins have been dealing with since the class was created. Paladins got pretty good at finding ways to fill in the holes without tools, and now that they've got a couple, you aren't going to hear too much complaining.

Do other classes have holes in their respective healing kits? Sure. They're supposed to, just like Paladins do. The question is, how substantial are those holes?Are there ways to work around it? Can we try something new, be it using an ability differently, playing around with roles and assignments a bit, gearing differently, what have you?

I'm not saying X class does or doesn't need a buff, or a nerf, or anything of the sort. It's possible (and probably likely) that something is going to have to change shortly after an expansion goes live. At the same time, we don't have it all figured out yet. A week from now, when someone figures out that if you do X, Y, and Z, such and such works way better than anyone ever anticipated, we'd be right back to here. I hate to say it, but giving it some time may be for the best.



I think your post is interesting. You say that paladins are used to dealing with a limited toolbox. What about priests that were designed and taught to use a large toolbox? They now have a lot of tools that are largely unuseable. Also, their core heals are balanced with this large toolbox in mind, while paladins core heals are balanced with fewer heals in mind.

Do you think this gives paladins a comparable advantage in an environment where the model restricts use of heals to a fairly small set, or do you feel that having more heals is an advantage?
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51 Blood Elf Paladin
480
Or maybe, just maybe, paladins are better healers at this point in the expansion.

JUST MAYBE

Honestly, I think its the whole holy power setup. I'll take free heals that aren't dependent on procs anyday!
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85 Night Elf Priest
7275
12/13/2010 8:50 AMPosted by Baelnyr
Or maybe, just maybe, paladins are better healers at this point in the expansion.

JUST MAYBE

Honestly, I think its the whole holy power setup. I'll take free heals that aren't dependent on procs anyday!


that is the entire reason.

by removing the possibility to overheal and making everything but the mindless single target spam impossible due to mana constraints, every class is a holy paladin....except holy paladins, who still have beacon and the free procs.

healing isn't harder, it's easier, much easier. it's a simple function of the intellect stat + time required to dps a boss down. there is no other factor, and one healer can't be better than another, with the exception of paladins who are better than the others by default due to mana conservation.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
2885
12/13/2010 8:45 AMPosted by Ladaris
An open healer slot is a slot that otherwise would not be filled because other classes aren't available. Why not take a priest, druid, or shaman instead? Because they aren't online, aren't 85, or aren't healy spec.


Oh, so 76% of all healers are Paladins? Right... With the advent of dual spec this is one of the worst arguments I've seen in this thread.
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40 Gnome Mage
0
lol
Edited by Grubbz on 12/13/2010 9:55 AM PST
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40 Gnome Mage
0
12/13/2010 9:27 AMPosted by Xayd
, with the exception of paladins who are better than the others by default due to mana conservation.



You do realize that paladins need that tad bit better mana conservation because their cd mana regen is complete trash right?
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85 Human Priest
3585
12/13/2010 9:44 AMPosted by Synz
12/13/2010 8:45 AMPosted by Ladaris
An open healer slot is a slot that otherwise would not be filled because other classes aren't available. Why not take a priest, druid, or shaman instead? Because they aren't online, aren't 85, or aren't healy spec.


Oh, so 76% of all healers are Paladins? Right... With the advent of dual spec this is one of the worst arguments I've seen in this thread.


I think we are supposed to look at a situation where there is a raid full of paladins, with a bunch of extra paladin healers waiting around... and for some reason absolutely none of the other healing classes around and think "Yeah, that makes sense, take more paladins!"... without giving a second though to the only healers around anymore are paladins and why that might be =P
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