Observations from a holy paladin in heroics

100 Human Paladin
14775
DISCLAIMER: These are my observations, take em, leave em, refute em, whatever, they're presented only to inspire ideas in others.

Here's what I'm doing right now, in no particular order:

Pre-pull
  • Beacon on the tank. Duh.

  • Load up three Holy Power charges on the tank using Holy Light. Ideally he'll have 3pts on the pull itself.

  • Drink every chance I get, even if it's just a few seconds' worth.



  • Steady as she goes (no appreciable damage...yet)
  • While everyone is topped off, cast Holy Light every couple of seconds on the tank to maintain your 3 stack of HP. You can do this pretty freely without costing yourself mana, but do it only often enough to maintain that 3 stack, because you do want some non-healing time to try and let your Spirit regen mana for you.

  • Judge the focus target; this should regen a little mana for you, so it's okay to do on every cooldown. At the very least, do it at least enough to keep your Judgments of the Pure up.

  • If the tank is holding his own, feel free to top off yourself or the DPS using Holy Light or a Daybreak Holy Shock (use it or lose it).

  • Keep moving; very few fights can you actually stand still for, especially since you will generate heal aggro on pretty much any adds that are spawned in the fight. Of course, don't stand in the poo.



  • Holy crap...you expect me to heal through *this*?
  • The *only* way I've been able to make this work so far is building up 3 stacks of Holy Power as quickly as possible, and using Word of Glory as soon as I have it. There are four ways to do this, listed in order of preference:

    1. Cast Holy Shock. Two Daybreak Holy Shocks back to back are even better.

    2. Infusion of Light proc'd Holy Light. Yes, you can do it with Divine Light in a pinch if the attempt is swirling the drain, but too much use of Divine Light will empty your mana pool really fast. Avoid the temptation to spam Divine Light the way we used to do Holy Light, because it just doesn't work most of the time.

    3. Flash of Light. Yes, the spell is expensive, but it's substantial and fast. If the tank is taking heavy incoming, it's okay to use this once, even twice, to keep him afloat and build Holy Power. You shouldn't have to use it three times because Holy Shock will be off cooldown by the time you're ready for to generate that third point.

    4. Unproc'd Holy Light. If you're doing this, you're out of mana. But it beats sitting there doing nothing.


  • (continued below)
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    100 Human Paladin
    14775
  • So now you have a 3pt WoG chambered...where to use it? Again, in order of preference:

    1. The target getting ready to die. If there's more than one in this condition, the tank generally wins the tiebreaker (UNLESS the boss is on fumes and you can safely sacrifice the tank to give your DPS just a few more seconds to bring him down). If the tank's okay, then you should probably be next (UNLESS, again, the boss is on fumes and you can sac yourself to give the DPS a few extra critical seconds). If you and the tank are okay and multiple DPS are preparing to cash it in, use it on your best DPSer. If you can't figure out in a split second who that is, hit a melee DPSer. (Why? They will generally have more life, and thus a few more seconds of survivability, and probably won't be running on fumes like your ranged clothies might be. But as always, YMMV, this is what works for me.)

    2. If no one is in immediate threat of dying, but multiple targets have significant damage, ask yourself if the tank will live if you don't use it on him - if your gut says 'no' that's who you should cast it on. When in doubt, you usually can't go wrong healing the tank.

    3. Next best choice would be a melee DPSer, because they seem to take almost as much damage as the tank sometimes, and are less prone to being overhealed - make every point of healing count!

    4. Next choice is the ranged DPS, and finally the pets, although keeping a pet up when all Hell is breaking loose is a luxury, not a requirement. Yeah, losing a pet costs you some DPS, but losing a player loses you a lot of DPS, if not the encounter.


  • If your WoG procs Eternal Glory, fantastic! Triage and use it, then quickly rebuild your stack.

  • Know where your Lay on Hands button is - this is your honest-to-God OH SH*T button now. Use it on the tank if he's swirling the drain, or even better, on a melee DPSer who's swirling the drain because Beacon will still heal the tank to full most of the time.

  • Holy Radiance? Situational. If the fight presents you with the opportunity for the group to pull in tight to a spot, such Erudax' Shadow Gale, use it. Otherwise, it's too expensive for the healing you will do, even if you run around in little circles trying to hit everyone.

  • Light of Dawn? Almost never use it. Directional issues, aside, if my group is nicely bunched, I'm using Holy Radiance. That 3 stack is more valuable to me as a single target WoG than to hit maybe two or three of my targets for a fraction of that amount. Again, YMMV, but I've not had good luck with it.

  • Divine Plea? Only if I'm dead out of mana or everyone's in a safe place for a few seconds and does not need significant healing. The latter doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

  • Holy Shock is healing clothies very nicely right now. If the tank can spare it, these should go to your clothies. The tank will still get the Holy Power.

  • Make sure to spread your heals around; bringing everyone to 50% is better than one person to 100%.

  • Last bit of advice: I'm using Spirit food, leftover Mp5 flasks from Wrath, and a pair of Spirit trinks that I roll whenever they're off cooldown. It's tough, but I'm holding my own.


  • Anyway, that's all I can think of for now. Hope it helps someone. Good luck.
    Edited by Alysandir on 12/12/2010 2:56 PM PST
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    37 Blood Elf Warlock
    6870
    Half of your posts are about WoG, when LoD makes WoG look like a piece of crap. LoD in a 5 man can easily be 3 times more powerful then a WoG.
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    100 Blood Elf Paladin
    10435
    12/12/2010 3:06 PMPosted by Faelyne
    Half of your posts are about WoG, when LoD makes WoG look like a piece of crap. LoD in a 5 man can easily be 3 times more powerful then a WoG.


    No.

    This is about Mana conservation. As stated above, you are better off using your WoG regularly on the tank. Sure if the DPS line up or the tank+plus Melee are all grouped and hurting then use LoD, else WoG the tank every 3 HL.

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    85 Blood Elf Paladin
    0
    12/12/2010 2:50 PMPosted by Alysandir
    Know where your Lay on Hands button is - this is your honest-to-God OH SH*T button now. Use it on the tank if he's swirling the drain, or even better, on a melee DPSer who's swirling the drain because Beacon will still heal the tank to full most of the time.


    Spot on, Did my first heroic in deadmine with total of 4/5 members also first timers, and LoH was used in almost every boss fight. passed the heroic with only 1 wipe at the end with nightmare. with glyph also restore 10% mana on your self regardless who you use it on. I felt prety well on my first Hdeadmine with a pug group of fresh 85s.



    12/12/2010 2:50 PMPosted by Alysandir
    Light of Dawn? Almost never use it. Directional issues, aside, if my group is nicely bunched, I'm using Holy Radiance. That 3 stack is more valuable to me as a single target WoG than to hit maybe two or three of my targets for a fraction of that amount. Again, YMMV, but I've not had good luck with it.


    I used it quite often when I have 2 melee dps in my group, since if you stand behind the only range dps and hit all of them, the transfer via beacon provides a good boost to Tank's hp. so I used it even when 2/3 dps are on full hp.
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    100 Human Paladin
    14775
    12/12/2010 3:06 PMPosted by Faelyne
    Half of your posts are about WoG, when LoD makes WoG look like a piece of crap. LoD in a 5 man can easily be 3 times more powerful then a WoG.


    Then by all means, please explain your position and how we should be using it correctly.
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    85 Tauren Paladin
    5040
    I personally find myself splitting my WoG and LoD useage about 50/50. most trash pulls I only need WoG, but on a lot of boss fights I like to use LoD and couple it with an extra holy shock on the take to supplement it.

    It's very mana-efficient and tops up my sometimes-melee heavy heroic groups.
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    100 Human Paladin
    14775
    Perhaps it is the fights I've done, but opportunities for using LoD do not appear to present themselves to me. Perhaps it is my party composition, perhaps it's the nature of the fight that warrants everyone keep moving, but that "perfect moment" where I have enough targets lined up and in range doesn't warrant me trying to hold on to that 3 stack to line up the shot vs. continuing to WoG and promote throughput. I view LoD as more of a raid tool, honestly.

    I'd like to hear other's examples of how they're making it work.
    Edited by Alysandir on 12/12/2010 3:58 PM PST
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    90 Tauren Paladin
    0
    12/12/2010 3:26 PMPosted by Alysandir
    12/12/2010 3:06 PMPosted by Faelyne
    Half of your posts are about WoG, when LoD makes WoG look like a piece of crap. LoD in a 5 man can easily be 3 times more powerful then a WoG.


    Then by all means, please explain your position and how we should be using it correctly.


    Protip: stack 6 (glyphed) people in front of you, hit LoD, and watch the health of the person you beaconed.
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    100 Human Paladin
    14775
    12/12/2010 4:03 PMPosted by Starburns


    Protip: stack 6 (glyphed) people in front of you, hit LoD, and watch the health of the person you beaconed.


    Please explain, Mr. Pro, how you get 6 people in a 5-man heroic?

    EDIT: But seriously...how are you people lining up enough group members to make LoD use worth it in 5-mans? That's really my point here. The fights do not warrant having enough people in one location, unless you happen to be heavy melee. Raid use? Absolutely. But I question its value in 5-mans until someone convinces me otherwise.
    Edited by Alysandir on 12/12/2010 4:10 PM PST
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    100 Blood Elf Paladin
    13400
    My WoG hits for 12k. My LoD hits for 7k per target, or 3500 per target onto the beacon.

    Protector of the Innocent is around 4800, beaconing to the tank for 2400.

    So for casting WoG on the tank, he gets 14,400. For casting LoD and only hitting myself, the tank, and one melee: 7k on the tank, 3500 for two Beaconed LoDs, and 2400 for two PotIs, meaning a total of 18,800.

    In my normal 5-man group, there's 3 melee, and one's a UH DK. So I get all 6 targets for LoD every time. 7k + 3500x4 + 2400x4 = 30,600 to the tank every three holy power.
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    100 Human Paladin
    14775
    12/12/2010 4:10 PMPosted by Ehcks
    My WoG hits for 12k. My LoD hits for 7k per target, or 3500 per target onto the beacon.

    Protector of the Innocent is around 4800, beaconing to the tank for 2400.

    So for casting WoG on the tank, he gets 14,400. For casting LoD and only hitting myself, the tank, and one melee: 7k on the tank, 3500 for two Beaconed LoDs, and 2400 for two PotIs, meaning a total of 18,800.

    In my normal 5-man group, there's 3 melee, and one's a UH DK. So I get all 6 targets for LoD every time. 7k + 3500x4 + 2400x4 = 30,600 to the tank every three holy power.


    My understanding is that PotI does not transition via Beacon. Only direct heals.

    A full melee group makes sense for LoD, particularly if one is a DK. But neither a hunter nor warlock are going to be close to melee range, even if their pets are. I'd say your group composition proves the exception rather than the rule.
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    37 Blood Elf Warlock
    6870
    Both LoD and WoG generate PotI of the same value to the same target, thus is irrelevent for comparing the two spells.

    LoD Hits for aprox. 60% of a WoG, thus with 2 targtes hit (IE, you and the tank) the tank gets 60% of a WoG, and then 30% of a WoG from LoD beacon, getting a heal for 90% of a WoG when you only healed 1 person with LoD (other then yourself). This is counting the WoG Glyph.

    Consider that LoD can hit 7 people at max, 5 players is reasonably easy to hit unless you have ranged that are scared of a paladin standing right behind them, like they are homophobic or something. Pets will be healed by LoD, including bloodworms, wolves, hunter/lock/dk pets. These will all gernate heals to the beacon. Thus a maximum power 7 target LoD will heal for aprox. 420% of a WoG. The beacon heal from this alone is 210% of a WoG, and is even larger then a Divine Light.

    I explained all this weeks ago in the paladin forum for anyone who was reading it, and juding by the number of paladins that understand this, the majority did not read it.

    WoG is pretty much terrible, and could easily be taken off your bars. The only point of WoG is to heal a dps who is taking more damage then the tank, IE they are doing it wrong.
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    100 Blood Elf Paladin
    13400
    12/12/2010 4:18 PMPosted by Alysandir
    My understanding is that PotI does not transition via Beacon. Only direct heals.

    A full melee group makes sense for LoD, particularly if one is a DK. But neither a hunter nor warlock are going to be close to melee range, even if their pets are. I'd say your group composition proves the exception rather than the rule.


    Oh, but it does. Beacon transfers PotI and Enlightened Judgements. And Seal of Insight. Maybe that's overpowered.. I don't know, but they do work.


    12/12/2010 4:19 PMPosted by Faelyne
    Both LoD and WoG generate PotI of the same value to the same target, thus is irrelevent for comparing the two spells.


    But WoG procs only one PotI. LoD procs a PotI for each target healed that isn't you. It's actually a bit of a problem. If you can LoD 6 targets who aren't you, that gives 6 PotI procs, all of which heal the tank. 6 of my beaconed PotI procs heals for 14,400 or so... the same amount as WoG + beaconed PotI. And I can do that every other GCD with 1HP LoDs if I really want to.
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    85 Blood Elf Paladin
    0
    12/12/2010 4:10 PMPosted by Ehcks
    So for casting WoG on the tank, he gets 14,400. For casting LoD and only hitting myself, the tank, and one melee: 7k on the tank, 3500 for two Beaconed LoDs, and 2400 for two PotIs, meaning a total of 18,800.

    In my normal 5-man group, there's 3 melee, and one's a UH DK. So I get all 6 targets for LoD every time. 7k + 3500x4 + 2400x4 = 30,600 to the tank every three holy power.


    Yes, well positioned LoD heals a whole lot more, thou your group with 3 melee is a bit melee heavy.

    I would suggest that the op give some consideration to using it more, as it is a aoe heal (atleast blizz said it is) and hitting 4 targets (including your self) will not only do its job and will also still provide an healing amount on the tank via beacon that would come close (if not equal) to a single 3HP WoG.

    where im some situations no-LoD will mean you have to resort to HR, which has a wooping 9k mana cost. I does comes down to your group make up and positioning after all. If the situation and position allows, i recommend giving LoD a few more go.
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    37 Blood Elf Warlock
    6870
    LoD generates 1 PotI heal, not multiple. If you cannot consistently heal 2 people other then youself with LoD, I don't know how you manage to play this game.
    Edited by Faelyne on 12/12/2010 4:31 PM PST
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    100 Human Paladin
    14775
    12/12/2010 4:19 PMPosted by Faelyne
    Both LoD and WoG generate PotI of the same value to the same target, thus is irrelevent for comparing the two spells.

    LoD Hits for aprox. 60% of a WoG, thus with 2 targtes hit (IE, you and the tank) the tank gets 60% of a WoG, and then 30% of a WoG from LoD beacon, getting a heal for 90% of a WoG when you only healed 1 person with LoD (other then yourself). This is counting the WoG Glyph.

    Consider that LoD can hit 7 people at max, 5 players is reasonably easy to hit unless you have ranged that are scared of a paladin standing right behind them, like they are homophobic or something. Pets will be healed by LoD, including bloodworms, wolves, hunter/lock/dk pets. These will all gernate heals to the beacon. Thus a maximum power 7 target LoD will heal for aprox. 420% of a WoG. The beacon heal from this alone is 210% of a WoG, and is even larger then a Divine Light.

    I explained all this weeks ago in the paladin forum for anyone who was reading it, and juding by the number of paladins that understand this, the majority did not read it.

    WoG is pretty much terrible, and could easily be taken off your bars. The only point of WoG is to heal a dps who is taking more damage then the tank, IE they are doing it wrong.


    OK, now this has some merit. However, it does assume perfect conditions, namely:

    A) a melee-centric group
    B) the presence of pets
    C) ranged that is willing to both group up on each other and stay within 20 yards of the boss.
    D) the fight is largely stationary

    I agree, under these conditions, LoD is outstanding. However, I submit that this is an idealized situation. Perhaps a group that is used to working with each other, has vent to coordinate movements, and consists of the proper classes, would do well with this, even on those fights that are heavy movement or punish the group for not spreading out. But for a typical PUG or a lesser coordinated group, which I think is more representative of the community, I don't see your strategy being as tenable. But you've given me food for thought, thank you.
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    37 Blood Elf Warlock
    6870
    No I had a 3 caster DPS group, Mage boomkin Spriest. I still managed to heal atleast 4 people every LoD. In a LFD group, without me even saying a word on where to stand.

    LoD is 30 yards, not 20.

    LoD is usable while moving, what does stationary fights have to do with it? LoD is even better while moving, because your only other option is WoG/HR...

    Face the facts, right now Holy Pally live healing is based almost entirely upon LoD usage to be playing at the top. Go ask DiamondTear or any other Premo paladin if you want the long and the short.

    The HPally design right now is that hitting anything other then FoL is sufficient. Maximizing LoD is the only way to rise above the drivel of the paladin spells.
    Edited by Faelyne on 12/12/2010 4:39 PM PST
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    100 Human Paladin
    14775
    12/12/2010 4:35 PMPosted by Faelyne
    No I had a 3 caster DPS group, Mage boomkin Spriest. I still managed to heal atleast 4 people every LoD. In a LFD group, without me even saying a word on where to stand.

    LoD is 30 yards, not 20.

    LoD is usable while moving, what does stationary fights have to do with it? LoD is even better while moving, because your only other option is WoG/HR...

    Face the facts, right now Holy Pally live healing is based almost entirely upon LoD usage to be playing at the top. Go ask DiamondTear or any other Premo paladin if you want the long and the short.

    The HPally design right now is that hitting anything other then FoL is sufficient. Maximizing LoD is the only way to rise above the drivel of the paladin spells.


    So a completely random group not only knew exactly how to position themselves to take advantage of your LoD, but they moved in a coordinated manner? I congratulate you on your good fortune then.

    Yes, LoD is 30 yards, but I am assuming that the ranged group is behind the boss and the tank is in front of the boss, meaning that in order to hit the tank as well, we need to be a lot closer than 30 yards to the boss, including some fudge room.

    Still, as I said, I will give it further thought.
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    37 Blood Elf Warlock
    6870
    Ugh, dude. Its not about them standing anywhere in particular, its about you knowing how to aim it and where to stand. I had fights where the boomkin was on the one side of the DM boat, the spriest was on the other, and the mage was floating around. When you actually start using it, you will realize it has a very large area hit.

    I have easily healed a tank for 40,000 with a single LoD.
    Edited by Faelyne on 12/12/2010 4:48 PM PST
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