Ret Pallies have been pushed back to BC Woes

85 Blood Elf Paladin
13405
QQ you bunch of whiners. The shared CD DS is a lot better than the Holy Power consuming DS. You #@*@%ed enough about that to get it changed, SO STOP #@*@%ING NOW THAT IT IS.

Complaining about your prot spec doing more dps is a little excessive too, considering how OP prot pally actually is.

Get used to the new rotation, fix your reforging, and focus on what pumps us up, because I don't see all these 'oh my god, our dps sucks and we can't play because my crusader strike and divine storm are on the same cooldown and I need to buff my 30% damage for 30 seconds that takes away an extra 3hp TV'.

Cry babies.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
5070
The new mechanics aren't very attractive. I thought the path to 83-85 was rough and thought all other classes probably had a hard time too. I haven't touched my 80 Rogue and DK but now I'm playing a Warrior currently at 76, I can already tell he will have a much easier time to 85.

In Twilight highlands, I can't even take on more than two mobs (with the very, very poor AoE), and running dungeons or some higher level elites, I can end up just swinging regular attacks waiting for a proc. Trying to stack a %*#* ton of haste so my Crusader Strike has a faster CD somehow I can't help but feel it's going a wrong direction...
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
5070
Personally I don't think DPS is a major issue, it's more of the awkward 'waiting for proc' RNG mechanic.

1) it works very, very poorly in PVP because most of our powerful stuff comes from auto-attack procs

2) your DPS could be quite unreliable even in PVE since its revolves around this new mechanic. It could spike very well if you get a ton of Art of War procs, on the flip side you could be really frustrated waiting for something to happen. Theoretically this can be resolved by stacking a lot of haste so Crusader strike has a lower CD.

3) AoE is just piss poor, Consecrate and Divine Storm, sigh.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
13405
I may be a troll, but I was being serious there. The RNG is a %@!!!, but hell, not much to do about that. And if you have an issue getting burned before you get your first 3hp/HoL proc, then go in swinging board and sword til you build it up. Sure that first few GCD's seem weak, but we just require a ramp up time now.

If you want to %@!!! about something, and actually get the entire community behind you, pick something useful like the fact that our only 'closer' requires us to judge from 15+ and it still isn't a guarantee. Our best closer is just being on our mounts. Blizzard isn't going to change us from the RNG HoL mechanic, at least I seriously can't see it, so pick a battle you might be able to win.

Oh... and make HoF work against Mind Flay plz.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
13405
Let me rework my original comment in a more logical statement.

I think the class is in a good place right now. We were nerfed away from the big burst we had through WotLK, and they wanted to give us more spans where we're not mashing abilities to keep us GCD defined. Those were Blizzards, and the other part of the communities complaints about us, and they did a fine job without going too overboard. You may be completely against it, but at least look at it this way... we're not the ones to be nerfed next/again.

Blizz won't be boosting us to match up with other classes burst, we've seen proof they won't by their reluctance to boost the weaker classes instead of nerfing us. That is how we've had 2 'from the ground' restructures. If you still want to complain, think of how the other classes will be complaining when they're balanced out.
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85 Dwarf Paladin
5965
I have to agree that Ret got nerfed into the ground (again). My average, single-target dps is within 5% of other classes on melee friendly fights. But it is nowhere near as fun.

How can you fix it? Take the RNG out of HoPo generation. Otherwise, do something else to reduce the RNG and increase the tactical control we have.

I am not asking for a dps increase on average. Just make it less bursty, less luck dependant.

*edit* I am coming from a pve, instance-oriented perspective.
Edited by Michaelberea on 12/13/2010 12:34 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
13405
I have an addon I can recommend if you guys are seriously 5% lower than everyone else. On boss fights I'm usually ahead by 3-5%, except against spriest/lock usually. But I think the original complaint of this thread was more concerned towards PVP.

CLCRet is the addon, and yes, it is kind of cheating. It's whack-a-mole. It shows you 2 icons, 1 being what to use current GCD on, and 2nd is for next.

Not trying to be condescending, but I have a feeling a few might not be using their entire spell books potential.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
5070
My fix is simple, just make Crusader strike a lower CD by default, what's with the gimmicky haste reduces CD talent...
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
13405
Tarvoz:

I just have it tracking my damaging abilities currently, I use ForteXorcist to track the long cool down items. Dunno if you've ever seen/heard of it, but there's a youtube video demonstrating it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4gLl_Ja3aU

Great one so you can just focus on your damage through CLC
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85 Human Paladin
6435
I look at it like this. AoE for the most part is dead, so I don't care about DS. As for our single target, it's fine. I am still pulling 7 - 12k DPS depending on the boss. I normally have to much stuff procing....
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90 Tauren Paladin
10930
I do okay. In Cata 5-mans I'm usually competitive with the frost DK, who is an excellent DPSer. I agree that ret is less fun in that I dislike eye-humping cooldowns and reacting to procs. I would prefer a set rotation.

To Blizzard, I can only say that I dislike having to manage four (4) DPS-boosting cooldowns (Avenging Wrath, Guardian of Ancient Kings, Inquisition, Zealotry) as well as four procs (Art of War, Hand of Light [Inquisition or Templar's Verdict or Word of Glory]). It's doable, but it's not fun. Adjectives that come to mind include frenzied, frenetic, and frustrating. It's too much. My arcane mage, by contrast, is a 3-button wonder. And he's actually pretty fun to play. Many of the encounters are complex enough; why does my rotation need to be complex as well?

To the paladin who took Divine Storm off his toolbar---el oh el. L2Ret.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
5070
I hate the four DPS-boosting cooldowns (would be ok if they reduced it to two)
I like the procs but they have to be a little bit more reliable.
This can usually be fixed if Crusader Strike and Judgment reduced to a lower CD by default so in case of bad luck with procs, you are not helpless.
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90 Tauren Paladin
10930
12/13/2010 1:17 PMPosted by Fifthblood
I hate the four DPS-boosting cooldowns (would be ok if they reduced it to two)

I would like to see them fold Avenging Wrath into Zealotry. I think 3 cooldowns is okay, considering one would be a very short cooldown (Inquisition), one would be a short cooldown (Zealotry) and one would be a long cooldown (Guardian of Ancient Kings). That would be easier to manage.

12/13/2010 1:17 PMPosted by Fifthblood
I like the procs but they have to be a little bit more reliable.

That's what Mastery is designed to do. By the time you're in full Tier 13 and your Mastery rating is around 20%, Hand of Light will seem as regular as Old Faithful.

[quote="14063106912"]This can usually be fixed if Crusader Strike and Judgment reduced to a lower CD by default so in case of bad luck with procs, you are not helpless.[/quote]

Sanctity of Battle plus more Haste rating will drastically reduce the cooldown on Crusader Strike by Tier 13. My issue is not that there aren't enough buttons to press, but that there are too many, and as gear improves and cooldowns lower and proc rates increase, the problem will escalate accordingly.
Edited by Odhran on 12/13/2010 1:28 PM PST
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100 Human Paladin
16855
SO many wotlk baby bloodelves, it makes my eyes bleed.
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85 Human Paladin
3195
I usually pull 9-12k on dungeon bosses, but work way harder than pretty much every other class in doing so, and they generally do similar or better than me. If they could change one thing, I would go with the 3-second flat Crusader Strike cooldown, so that we don't NEED to stack Haste to stay competitive (and gimp other stats).
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