Why "challenging" is not more fun:

90 Night Elf Druid
9615
You could play a healer on facebook.

Before you break out the anti-troll bandwagon, hear me out.

Unless you have some kind of clairvoyance, it has been, and probably always will be the issue that healers really do nothing but stare at health bars.

I don't even really get to experience content as it happens. I just kinda get the notion of what is going on because I'm pretty much forced to stare at those bars, and now my mana bar, and now my healing touch cast bar.

Essentially all i get to look at are those three things. At least before I could cast hots on someone and be reasonably assured it would make the bar go up, if not i could swiftmend and I would definitely see that bar go actually upwards towards 100%, instead of just more slowly go down towards 0%.

In any case, the point I'm making is, at least for me, all you have to do is extact the fancy 3d environment which you never get to look at when it counts, and keep the same daily/weekly/monthly requirements for actual work... and you could play a healer on facebook... and that whole situation is now 400% worse off than it was last week.

So I ask you: where's the fun in that?
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87 Blood Elf Priest
2885
Don't fight the hp bars embrace it lol. I usually just play with name plates on everything (adjust as you need) but that way i get to watch what's going on and when I look at someone....bam hp. So yes i'm staring at hp bars but those hp bars are over the target i'm watching anyways thus letting me watch the whole enviroment.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9615
12/10/2010 3:44 PMPosted by Idale
Don't fight the hp bars embrace it lol. I usually just play with name plates on everything (adjust as you need) but that way i get to watch what's going on and when I look at someone....bam hp. So yes i'm staring at hp bars but those hp bars are over the target i'm watching anyways thus letting me watch the whole enviroment.


heh well then instead of bars in place, you could just press a button in the facebook app and they would move around randomly with some blurry background image of a dragunnn, same concept.
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90 Tauren Druid
12840
If you're still staring at health bars, it isn't challenging enough.

I don't stare at health bars. I peripherally see them, and I look at what's happening in the game. I use cyclone and roots and hibernate to reduce the damage the group takes. I toss off a heal when I see a spell winding up so the heal hits just as the enemy spell does. I move out of the goo, I shift aside so chain lightning doesn't chain, I make sure I plant myself to drop a Wild Growth to hit everyone, and then watch the melee move and time my swiftmend so the efflorescence circle hits 3 targets instead of 1.

I find that I heal better when I'm not staring at bars, and instead watching mobs and the fight in progress, so I know what damage is coming. Maybe if you got your eyes up more and didn't think you could "heal on facebook", you'd find you healed better and didn't need to stare at health bars as much, because damage taken is reduced.
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90 Draenei Paladin
20430
12/10/2010 3:42 PMPosted by Mewz
You could play a healer on facebook.

Before you break out the anti-troll bandwagon, hear me out.

Unless you have some kind of clairvoyance, it has been, and probably always will be the issue that healers really do nothing but stare at health bars.

I don't even really get to experience content as it happens. I just kinda get the notion of what is going on because I'm pretty much forced to stare at those bars, and now my mana bar, and now my healing touch cast bar.

Essentially all i get to look at are those three things. At least before I could cast hots on someone and be reasonably assured it would make the bar go up, if not i could swiftmend and I would definitely see that bar go actually upwards towards 100%, instead of just more slowly go down towards 0%.

In any case, the point I'm making is, at least for me, all you have to do is extact the fancy 3d environment which you never get to look at when it counts, and keep the same daily/weekly/monthly requirements for actual work... and you could play a healer on facebook... and that whole situation is now 400% worse off than it was last week.

So I ask you: where's the fun in that?


If you don't want challenging content, then just go do normal modes or other non-challenging content.

Don't ruin the enjoyment of the game for the rest of us.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9615
12/10/2010 4:14 PMPosted by Eloderung
Don't ruin the enjoyment of the game for paladins.
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MVP
83 Night Elf Priest
5790
I've wrestled with this issue.

Believe me, once upon a time I had 40 ctra bars covering a 640x480 screen. I was in all epics before I knew how to navigate molten core.

I've tried the alt-v method with bars above people's heads.. which is a bust unless you like playing whack-a-mole on nightmare mode.

The closest I've gotten to bliss though, is to have the bars right in the center of the screen (basically over my toon).. then I don't have to do peripheral vision checking. After a while you get used to it and don't even notice it. You just sort of see the world with a kind of continuing awareness of people's health.

It isn't perfect, and I do know what you mean.. I'm just saying what's worked for me.
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85 Troll Shaman
5220
12/10/2010 4:17 PMPosted by Mewz
12/10/2010 4:14 PMPosted by Eloderung
Don't ruin the enjoyment of the game for people who arn't awful.
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90 Draenei Paladin
20430
12/10/2010 4:17 PMPosted by Mewz
12/10/2010 4:14 PMPosted by Eloderung
Don't ruin the enjoyment of the game for paladins.


I ran all of the heroics pre-nerf (difficulty level somewhere much, much, much greater than live) on my paladin, before the paladin had many tools at all. That is, I was worse than the state of druids in content now.

It's not as huge a difference as you think. Less than 24 hours after launch my guild had two heroic groups running and a druid was healing group #2. If a skilled druid can go right into heroics from dinging lvl85, then a casual player can certainly do the same after properly gearing up through normal dungeon content and healing in the appropriate gear.
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90 Human Priest
16170

If you don't want challenging content, then just go do normal modes or other non-challenging content.

Don't ruin the enjoyment of the game for the rest of us.


Yes, because I totally am the type of player who going by my armory avoids "challenging" content.

Either way someone's enjoyment of the game will be lower. Can you blame me for wanting it to be more fun for me instead of for you? For the last 5 years I have loved healing and now it is practically unbearable. I feel very, very strongly that healing has never, ever, ever been this unfun and I would take any point in vanilla or BC or Wrath over this garbage.
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85 Dwarf Priest
11535
You appear to have avoided challenging arena content. j/k!
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90 Human Priest
16170
You appear to have avoided challenging arena content. j/k!


Haha I dunno, I like BGs because I think the group objectives are fun but I'm not really a fan of small group PvP in arenas. I did some for achievements than I was like eh, even I don't want achievement points enough to do this, LOL.
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Yea this new healing is not fun at all my friend. I used to consider myself a good healer and enjoyed doing it, but now it's is nearly unbearable. Don't get me wrong I enjoy a good challenge, but when I go oom in 2 seconds and my heals cost crazy amounts of mana while doing bascially no healing it goes from challenging to just plain stupid and not possible. Yea I know I'm not geared or you think I'm not using the right spells but the fact is that healing is broken and not fun. I miss the old days even if it was repetitive and easier. And wtf blizz you said no spike damage, im pretty sure when the tank gets hit for half his hp at once, that would b considered spike damage.
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85 Goblin Shaman
7630
It's not just about difficulty, it's about the type of difficulty.

For example:

Difficulty can come from judging your reaction time and providing a small margin of error alone. This difficulty does not provide much enjoyment (in my opinion).

However, there is also a type of difficulty that challenges not just your reaction speed, but also judgement and ability to adapt to a new setting.


In Wrath, health pools were small and damage came fast. The challenge was to hit the button quickly, but deciding which button didn't play much of a role since there were few spells you needed.

In Cata, large health pools mean you have a lot of time evaluate and direct your heals to the right target. However, the healing spell you choose is much more vital since mana is limited.


TL;DR Instead of difficulty being a game of whack-a-mole, it's now a triage where cost vs. benefit of spell choice matters. Aka, you have to use your head, not just fast fingers.
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85 Night Elf Priest
5035
12/10/2010 7:37 PMPosted by Dahkezah
It's not just about difficulty, it's about the type of difficulty.

For example:

Difficulty can come from judging your reaction time and providing a small margin of error alone. This difficulty does not provide much enjoyment (in my opinion).

However, there is also a type of difficulty that challenges not just your reaction speed, but also judgement and ability to adapt to a new setting.


In Wrath, health pools were small and damage came fast. The challenge was to hit the button quickly, but deciding which button didn't play much of a role since there were few spells you needed.

In Cata, large health pools mean you have a lot of time evaluate and direct your heals to the right target. However, the healing spell you choose is much more vital since mana is limited.


TL;DR Instead of difficulty being a game of whack-a-mole, it's now a triage where cost vs. benefit of spell choice matters. Aka, you have to use your head, not just fast fingers.


I semi-agree with this, the thing is though that for most boss fights(and maybe this is a gearing issue) damage is coming in at WOTLK Levels but heals are going out with the speed and efficiency of a snail. I will agree that some boss fights if the mechanics are done right it's a really fun/semi-challenging triage fight(Most of stonecore bosses), I will withold judgement until I and my tanks can get better geared, but currently there are only some bosses that fit the triage bill, and most that fit the omg the tank is getting two shotted and I just went OOM from 2 flash heal bill.
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87 Blood Elf Paladin
9375
12/10/2010 4:26 PMPosted by Eloderung
If a skilled druid can go right into heroics from dinging lvl85, then a casual player can certainly do the same after properly gearing up through normal dungeon content and healing in the appropriate gear.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
4520
12/10/2010 7:37 PMPosted by Dahkezah
It's not just about difficulty, it's about the type of difficulty.

For example:

Difficulty can come from judging your reaction time and providing a small margin of error alone. This difficulty does not provide much enjoyment (in my opinion).

However, there is also a type of difficulty that challenges not just your reaction speed, but also judgement and ability to adapt to a new setting.


In Wrath, health pools were small and damage came fast. The challenge was to hit the button quickly, but deciding which button didn't play much of a role since there were few spells you needed.

In Cata, large health pools mean you have a lot of time evaluate and direct your heals to the right target. However, the healing spell you choose is much more vital since mana is limited.


TL;DR Instead of difficulty being a game of whack-a-mole, it's now a triage where cost vs. benefit of spell choice matters. Aka, you have to use your head, not just fast fingers.



Ok but here is the flaw in all that. I CAN'T use all of my tools because they cost too much mana. "Oh no the tank is at 20% guess it's time to use flash heal and greater heal" well yeah and no. Yeah use greater heal, that brings back a whomping 20% of the tanks health MAYBE! Ok so I have to use it 4 more times then I'm out of mana. Or I could use a bubble and some flash heals. Nope that won't work either cause that runs me out of mana and heals even less. But whoa whoa whoa there is a 3rd option. I can you this "oh so awesome spell" called heal. Yeah awesome! It's mana efficient and heals for all of 8% of the tanks heals so even while in my Chakra state with my Holy Word AND renew up, the tank dies. I completely see all these different options and let me tell you its a blast!


End Sarcasm. I'm all for challenging but come on! Sunwell was challenging as all hell but it never made me miserable because I knew I had to be with my tip top guildies to accomplish it. These new heroics don't cater to being able to use the looking for group system at all. Plus, healing is now very stressful so ques are going to get even longer as no one wants to play a GAME to be stressed out.
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90 Draenei Paladin
20430
12/10/2010 4:54 PMPosted by Elliora
You appear to have avoided challenging arena content. j/k!


Haha I dunno, I like BGs because I think the group objectives are fun but I'm not really a fan of small group PvP in arenas. I did some for achievements than I was like eh, even I don't want achievement points enough to do this, LOL.


Well yea, but you're probably the only one with high-end credentials who has been thoroughly against the Cata healing changes (void of any class imbalances at the moment) since late beta / live that I've seen on these forums.

No matter how healing is changed someone will hate it.
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Well at least priests get to look up from the health bars when we OOM on trash pulls. That's kinda nice.
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