Divine Plea needs a rework.

96 Worgen Warrior
16035
12/13/2010 12:17 AMPosted by Soluth
I guess it could do with a lil buff. At the moment I only use divine plea during phase changes during bosses and most of the time cancel it after around 6-10seconds when the tank starts taking damage again. Be sure to keep using judgement though, returns 15% of ur base mana.


Uhhh...If you're Prot or Ret sure, to which I question why the -50% healing debuff would matter since you shouldn't really be doing much healing anyways.

It's awful for holy and I can't imagine trying to use it -And- keep up all your group in the new heroics, it's just not fathomable.

Edit - Added emphasis to the quote to clarify my craziness!
Edited by Varahas on 12/13/2010 12:45 AM PST
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85 Tauren Paladin
3460
12/13/2010 12:44 AMPosted by Varahas
12/13/2010 12:17 AMPosted by Soluth
I guess it could do with a lil buff. At the moment I only use divine plea during phase changes during bosses and most of the time cancel it after around 6-10seconds when the tank starts taking damage again. Be sure to keep using judgement though, returns 15% of ur base mana.


Uhhh...If you're Prot or Ret sure, to which I question why the -50% healing debuff would matter since you shouldn't really be doing much healing anyways.

It's awful for holy and I can't imagine trying to use it -And- keep up all your group in the new heroics, it's just not fathomable.

Edit - Added emphasis to the quote to clarify my craziness!


a global is a lot easier to spare than 15 seconds
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85 Human Paladin
3785
12/12/2010 5:40 PMPosted by Mellodiez
-50% heal reduction is WAY too much atm. It should be reduce healing by 10% or no penalty at all.


simple dont cast it when someones taking heavy dmg, OR WHAT IS BETTER IS JUDGE WITH INSIGHT. GRATZ ON YOUR INSTA 5K MANA EVERY 6 SECS + mp5
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85 Goblin Shaman
7685
You want buffs as the most op healer in the game at the moment?
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3170
12/12/2010 5:42 PMPosted by Jantilla
I find it COMPLETELY awesome that I can outdo a warrior in giving myself a Mortal Strike. That's utter and pure win.


Exactly what I was going to say too :)
This is very outdated and noones mana return has an MS effect with it besides Paladins.
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I seem to be seeing us not having as huge mana issues as the other classes. Why, then, do we need our mana regen ability buffed? If it comes down to it, you can hop into the fray and melee/judge to gain mana while you heal. Divine Plea takes strategy to use right now and you're rewarded for having foresight, but I find myself using it between pulls to skip drinking more than using it during combat.

I am inclined to think that having it not apply to non-mana heals would make sense though.

(also, I'm not saying that I'm not for it having the penalty reduce/removed, just that it's not actually a needed change)
Edited by Janaire on 12/13/2010 6:28 AM PST
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82 Draenei Shaman
1250
12/13/2010 12:05 AMPosted by Lucreta
12/12/2010 11:58 PMPosted by Stöp


This, I mean if they want an easy way out they could just homogenize it with innervate or something and increase the cooldown. If I find a 15 second period where I dont need to cast then a fight is easy. Otherwise I cant see a situation where it is worth the 10% mana to cast gimped heals over a span of 15 seconds. (Even in terms of straight mana efficiency!)


Innervate = 20% Casters (druid casting) maximum mana over 10 seconds on a 3 minute CD.

Shadowfiend = 3% mana per hit, lasts 15 seconds, takes less aoe damage and can be glyphed to restore some mana if it dies still. (5% of the priests max mana) 5 Minute CD.

Mana Tider = Spirit increased by 350% for 12 seconds for everyone in range of the totem. 3 Minute CD.

Divine Plea = 10% of maximum mana over 15 seconds with a -50% healing debuff for the duration. 2 minute CD.
=/



None of those classes have a heal that works without mana. If they make divine plea the same then we would never run out of mana with the divine plea/word of glory combo. I don't think we're meant to use divine plea as often as a priest uses shadowfiend - it's not a button that we should want to push all the time, but it does have situational value (like during downtime, when people aren't taking heavy damage, or if you're using trinket/divine favor to compensate). Removing it from the game completely would be justified, but since it's there let's just figure out more situations in which we can use it (or just remove it from your bars and laugh maniacally as you realize you never really needed it as much as other healers).

*I'm currently leveling my paladin (66) so I could be wrong on this - just my experience with the issue so far.
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5 Orc Warrior
0
Just make it return 10% mana over 8 seconds (instead of 15sec). That way, we still have to think a little when using divine plea, but at the same time, we wont have to sit around for 15 seconds doing nothing to get the most out of it.

If you're a delusional that thinks divine plea isn't lackluster, read this. It's the only healer mana regen ability that has a negative side effect. Innervate? Mana tide totem? Shadowfiend? All of these are fire and forget; you use it, and you gain mana back (nothing else to worry about). Divine plea was already nerfed from 25% to 10% since wrath. It DOES need to change.
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85 Human Paladin
5745
12/13/2010 10:39 AMPosted by Pertinacious
12/13/2010 2:10 AMPosted by Lemmywinkzz
simple dont cast it when someones taking heavy dmg, OR WHAT IS BETTER IS JUDGE WITH INSIGHT. GRATZ ON YOUR INSTA 5K MANA EVERY 6 SECS + mp5


It's 3.5k every 8 seconds, so long as you can spare the GCD, but yeah.


It's also an extra heal on your Beacon target with Enlightened Judgments. Not overwhelming, but certainly mana-saving.
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85 Tauren Paladin
8655
12/12/2010 7:52 PMPosted by Farranor
12/12/2010 7:33 PMPosted by Sanctitty
I think the penalty should be removed, but only on WoG. I don't think our (manaless) spell should be penalized when we use a mana regen ability. Also, rets and prots shouldnt have their survivability nerfed with divine plea (particularly prot who can use DP in a pinch for an instant 3 HP).

How do ret and prot reduce their survivability by using DP?


(Just in case you're planning on responding, "because it cuts their received healing in two!" let me just say that DP only reduces the output of the heals cast by whoever is gaining mana through DP; heals cast by anyone else, whether their target has DP active or not, are unaffected.)




Because our only instant self heal is reduced by half, meaning the ability prots spend points improving and making worth casting gets reduced by half, the overheal absorb shield gets reduced by half.

This ain't my first rodeo, cowboy, I know what the abilities are and how they work.

The better question is, why do we of all the classes with mana regen abilities have a penalty invoked? Innervate regens twice as much mana in less time, with only a slightly longer cooldown. Shadowfiend? No penalty. Mana tide? No penalty. You get the trend. Back when it regenned more mana it NEEDED the penalty. Now, not so much.


Good prot paladins have a macro for DP that allows 2 taps to give us 3 holy power while canceling the mana regen (and healing reduction) part.

Bad prot paladins nerf their survivability for 15 seconds or use DP to regen mana.

Aren't you a good prot paladin?
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28 Tauren Paladin
160
10% really isn't enough mana, especially for the 50% reduction. I mean, our standard SoI judge gives more than that up front, and since it reduces healing by 50% it's "doubling" the mana cost (by way of needing to cast more, maybe not double but you get the point) of our spells as you need to cast more of them/more furiously when it is running, which kind of negates the whole "I need mana" part of the spell =/
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3240
Yeah I am unglyphing this tonight. The only time it would be safe to use is a LONG phase transition. Since it's basically useless to heal while this is up might as well just melee with seal of light instead if I'm not going to be healing anyone.
Edited by Illumía on 12/13/2010 3:02 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10160
I think it's silly for paladins to have the only mana regen ability that has a drawback. Priests have shadowfiend and hymn, shamans have mana tide totem, and druids have innervate. I'd like to be able to hit my mana regen ability without having to worry if my party members are going to die because of it.
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