Cataclysm PvE Holy Paladin Theorycrafting

6 Troll Shaman
0
Result of Conviction bug fix:
01/25/2011 12:08 PMPosted by Bashiok
Right, kind of. We discovered that Conviction (which can give up to a 9% healing bonus) was broken. It affected paladin self heals, but not healing other targets. Since we think that paladin healing throughput is in an overall good place we didn't want a 9% bonus sticking around. So we fixed Conviction and reduced the Holy passive, Walk in the Light, from 15% to 10%. Which actually does end up with a net 4% gain overall, assuming Conviction has near 100% uptime, which isn't too unreasonable.

Since it was applied in a hotfix the Walk in the Light tooltip won't be updated until 4.0.6.
So what's that mean for that lovely coefficient K?

Old Broken Conviction K = 1.06 (Divinity) * (1 + 0.05 Seal of Insight + 0.15 Walk in Light) = 1.272

Old "Working" K = 1.06 (Divinity) * (1 + 0.05 Seal of Insight + 0.15 Walk in Light) * 1.09 (Conviction if present) = 1.38648

If this formula holds true (i.e. they didn't change the stacking methods), then
K = 1.06 (Divinity) * (1 + 0.05 Seal of Insight + 0.15 Walk in Light) * 1.09 (Conviction if present) = 1.32871

For Holy Shock, the new K SHOULD be:
K Holy Shock =(1 + 0.05 Seal of Insight + 0.10 Walk in Light + 0.3 Crusade) * 1.06 (Divinity) * 1.09 (Conviction if present) = 1.67533

Subject to in-game confirmation.
Edited by Lylthe on 1/25/2011 1:53 PM PST
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85 Dwarf Paladin
6850
If you never use Flash of Light, that implies your tanks and raid members are never in danger of immediate death. I think we all know that Word of Glory + Holy Shock is potent enough to save someone, but you've NEVER been in a situation you felt the need to output an absolute MAX amount of healing to save your tank? WoG and Holy Shock are not generally enough, and not maintainable.

I used Flash of Light spam (about 5 casts) to save our tank tonight on Val/Ther. Had I not, the death would have meant another wipe and potentially cost us the kill for the evening (and time clearing trash and finishing the fight on our next raid night). Naturally I question anyone who would choose not to make use of this valuable spell...

The 10% cost just further enforces our need to use all of our other healing methods, mainly Holy Power heals and Holy Radiance. :D

PS - *flex* New toys are fun.
Edited by Rabel on 1/25/2011 10:13 PM PST
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6 Troll Shaman
0
lol, wrong thread Rabel
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85 Dwarf Paladin
6850
01/25/2011 9:25 AMPosted by Dsire
So FoL is going to be totally useless ? As of right now I never use it, I dont even think it is on my bar.
Sorry I was referring to this, also there was another thread wasn't there! Hrmph...

I hate people with all these weird ideas - ideas like such and such spell is useless, or like the guy that tried to convince me Landslide (which I have purchased) actually only cost 5 Heavenly Shards rather than 5 Maelstrom Crystals...

I just don't know how to handle it half the time!

And more on topic: can you explain that a little better? Are you just doing the math with precision on how much better off we are with 5% less base healing from our tree but gaining the 9% from Conviction?
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6 Troll Shaman
0
I'm just fixing the numbers so the data's accurate. Getting into how buffed/nerfed we are only starts a QQ fest. Either way, it's here, it's happened and there's not much I can do about it. My focus is on maximizing what we have. There are plenty of threads that focus on improving WoW's class balance (well... some people might consider that a polite euphanism for QQ) so I feel it would be redundant here.
Edited by Lylthe on 1/26/2011 7:35 AM PST
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85 Human Paladin
7675
Why is everyone focusing on the 10% increase in mana for FoL, and not the fact that they increased the mana by 10% on DL and HL ON TOP of the FoL?!!
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85 Dwarf Paladin
6850
Its because some people see FoL to already cost too much mana, and adding any at all is pointless. Well, think of it more like an accross the board mana increase for Paladins, except they didn't do anything to some of our spells - those spells are simply even more potent relative to our direct heals now.
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6 Troll Shaman
0
EDIT: Rethinking this post.
Edited by Lylthe on 1/26/2011 9:31 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7350
So the patch notes say Walk in the Light is down to 5%. The tooltip in that blue post for Walk in the Light says 10% when u hover over it. We have a blue post saying that with Conviction we are still getting a relative buff.... EJ testing confirmed WoiL was 10% before any announcement was even made. I'm thinking its a typo and WitL is 10%, and will stay 10%, till the next round of nerfs.

On a side note. Druid healing has GREATLY increased since the Rejuv buff, at least in my guilds raids. I think after 4.06, things will be well balanced except for Shamans and maybe Disc Priests. I'm no longer passing on raid drop healing gear to my other healers because I feel guilty when I look at the meters.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13070
I'm battling with spell choice right now. I had been using FoL when holy shock/WoG were not available (and didn't have a quick HL or DL cast). I realized this burned my mana pretty quickly, so I switched to using primarily HL and DL, almost no FoL. My output was cut nearly in half. Even with the struggle to time my mana cooldowns appropriately I still do more healing with FoL.
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6 Troll Shaman
0
01/27/2011 11:15 PMPosted by Sarianna
I'm battling with spell choice right now. I had been using FoL when holy shock/WoG were not available (and didn't have a quick HL or DL cast). I realized this burned my mana pretty quickly, so I switched to using primarily HL and DL, almost no FoL. My output was cut nearly in half. Even with the struggle to time my mana cooldowns appropriately I still do more healing with FoL.

What are you primarily healing? I find it difficult to believe that even DL spam is insufficient for a majority of the situations. There are times we absolutely must use FoL, but for 90% of the heavy damage phases I've found DL to be more than enough.
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90 Draenei Paladin
7990
01/26/2011 12:59 AMPosted by Rabel
So FoL is going to be totally useless ? As of right now I never use it, I dont even think it is on my bar.
Sorry I was referring to this, also there was another thread wasn't there! Hrmph...

I hate people with all these weird ideas - ideas like such and such spell is useless, or like the guy that tried to convince me Landslide (which I have purchased) actually only cost 5 Heavenly Shards rather than 5 Maelstrom Crystals...

I just don't know how to handle it half the time!


I guess hate me then? Idk what to tell you.. I was just stating my experience, and you stated yours. Congrats.

01/28/2011 8:54 AMPosted by Lylthe
I'm battling with spell choice right now. I had been using FoL when holy shock/WoG were not available (and didn't have a quick HL or DL cast). I realized this burned my mana pretty quickly, so I switched to using primarily HL and DL, almost no FoL. My output was cut nearly in half. Even with the struggle to time my mana cooldowns appropriately I still do more healing with FoL.

What are you primarily healing? I find it difficult to believe that even DL spam is insufficient for a majority of the situations. There are times we absolutely must use FoL, but for 90% of the heavy damage phases I've found DL to be more than enough.



Thank you ^. 90% of heavy damage DL x1 3 HP WoG and 2 HL heal to full. Never, ever been in a situation that I need FoL to save a raid member, party member or tank. So yeah.
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85 Dwarf Paladin
6850
Thank you ^. 90% of heavy damage DL x1 3 HP WoG and 2 HL heal to full. Never, ever been in a situation that I need FoL to save a raid member, party member or tank. So yeah.

I have and I have had raid members die because my instants were not enough. I've learned that sometimes the mana is worth it. I'm sorry if you still think Flash of Light is useless.

Sorry I said hate. I strongly dislike people that feel any spell in their arsenal is useless. Every spell has its uses, no matter how sparingly they are used. Flash of Light is our highest HPS heal in Cataclysm and probably always will be.
Edited by Rabel on 1/28/2011 8:00 PM PST
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5 Tauren Paladin
0
im sorry, but what were the base stats I should shoot for?

i saw the part about crit and mastery stay a 1/1 but what are the base numbers to shoot for on spirit and haste?
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6 Troll Shaman
0
Spirit until you no longer OOM, and haste until people no longer die to slow casts. There's too much personal variance for me to give you a hard number. "Many" people find ~1800+ spirit and ~800 to be good thresholds to aim for, but there's no hard line.
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85 Human Paladin
2320
Question - Last night, I dropped Tower of Radiance to raid. Am I an idiot?

This is my alt, and I've always just done the daily with it. Tower of Radiance was a cool, reliable Holy Power generation in 5 mans. I also assumed it would be fine in raids if I was tank healing. However, we tried Magmaw last night and with the range stacking strat that we always use for my Priest main, I realized that 15 yards of Judgment just doesn't reach the dang boss unless I run closer once in a while and potentially screw up the Pillar of Flame position. I was going oom because had to use Divine Light a lot, I couldn't judge, and I could not recover enough mana through meleeing in the spike phase.

So I removed the 3 points in Tower of Radiance in favor of 1 to max out PotI and 2 for Improved Judgment, putting my judges at 35 yard range. My mana was so much better and my hps stayed relatively the same (11k - 12k ish). I had sometimes felt like not having the longer Judgment range was a hindrance (like when you're running away from fire on Argaloth) and assume that it will only get worse as I take my alt to more bosses.

I feel like the 35 yd judgment makes me more comfortable. Could I get some insight on this please? Ty :)

[EDIT]: I was also using my Priest's Archaeology BoAs: Tyrande's Favorite Doll in place of Blood of Isiset and Ring of the Boy Emperor instead of Diamant's Ring of Temperance, putting me above 100k mana unbuffed. I was popping the doll as often as I could and had pre-stacked it to 4200 before combat started. Just for reference that I wasn't particularly undergeared, and that my lack of Judging was causing me to oom, not my gear.

[EDIT2]: Whoops, I went under 8% melee hit by switching out the Blood of Isiset, which was reforged to Spirit -_- I checked my logs and I didn't miss any Judgements last night, but still, eh. I didn't reforge a few pieces to Spirit because I was trying not to drop under 8% Haste. Might have to switch things up a bit though - if I max out Enlightened Judgements instead of Improved Judgement, would that be better? It would hit cap me for sure and add some healing at the cost of 5 yds of range. ...I guess that would be better, wouldn't it - 35 yds instead of 30 might be overkill. Once I get opinions on whether skipping Tower of Radiance is okay or not, I'll go move around more points.
Edited by Marlyn on 1/30/2011 9:05 AM PST
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37 Blood Elf Warlock
0
Tower of radiance is at least a 40% increase to efficiency when you have to heal your Beacon. There are not many talent points that powerful. Why are you having so much trouble judging enemies? I use 2 in Enlightened Judgments, and 0 in Imp Judgment, and generally have no issues with range.
Edited by Faelyne on 1/30/2011 10:00 AM PST
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85 Human Paladin
2320
I was only using 1 in Enlightened Judgements. The 15 yard range did not let me judge Magmaw from my position since we were standing at range.

I really like Tower of Radiance for the guaranteed Holy Power generation, so I guess I'm wondering exactly how much range is necessary for raid bosses. 15 yards does not seem to be enough.

[EDIT]: The OP's spec takes one point out of Last Word, can't believe I didn't think of that >_> I can probably try that build and see if the 25 yd range is sufficient.
Edited by Marlyn on 1/30/2011 12:07 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7975
If you have the freedom to do so, run two holy specs - one with ToR, one without. You'll find it doesn't make that much difference to throughput, but it does a bit for sustaining mana. Use the spec with ToR when you're mostly healing (60+% of the time) the beacon, use the spec without for any other time.

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