Cata unfortunately not a return to TBC.

85 Tauren Druid
6940
Please stop acting like Cata is a return to TBC. Similar concept, very different implementation. I loved the challenge of gearing up for heroics in TBC, when I first began to heal! It sure beat rolling LB stacks when I started raiding 25-mans.

In TBC, mana mattered; management of the resource was vital to the success of the group/raid--as was avoiding avoidable damage--all good things. However, when I needed a big, expensive heal, it hit like a big, expensive heal.

Now, I obviously haven't done any heroics yet in Cata, so I can only speak to the numbers I'm seeing posted on sites like Elitist Jerks. And seeing a big, expensive, long-cast-time heal only hit even a DPS for 15-25% of their health bar is seriously discouraging.

Like Wrath (and TBC), I want the ability to top someone off quickly. Unlike Wrath, I want that to mean I may well run out of mana near the end of the encounter if DPS doesn't pick it up, I don't catch a Boomkin's innervate, etc. I want to feel like I'm carrying my weight on a team, not that I'm carrying the team or being carried by the team. It's a fine line, to be sure, and no doubt difficult to balance.

I appreciate Blizz's effort to change things from the total spamfest post-Naxx Wrath became, but the current implementation has gone too far. Not in terms of difficulty, but in terms that have made healing seem regressive and weak. For numerous people, that's not fun and is a justifiable concern, not end-of-the-world QQ.
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90 Draenei Paladin
19700
It's not a return to TBC.

It's a re-envisioning of how healing should have been since the beginning, and they did a great job at it.
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85 Tauren Druid
6940
12/10/2010 1:19 PMPosted by Eloderung
It's a re-envisioning of how healing should have been since the beginning, and they did a great job at it.


You may well be right that it's a complete re-envisioning, but that doesn't mean everyone--or even a majority--agrees with the direction they've taken healing.

Personally, as stated above, I wanted TBC-style mana cost, regen, and heal strength in relation to health pools. Not wet-noodle bandaids and a feeling of severe regression.
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There is a huge skill cap on healing now, and they aren't going to make healing what YOU want. :dealwithit:
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90 Goblin Priest
7480
Here's the biggest factor affecting ALL healers who are getting frustrated......we are coming out of WotLK into Cata. It is nothing at all like coming out of vanilla into BC. WotLK was like de-evolution of the WoW population.
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90 Human Paladin
10440
The new healing style is great, if not a little too easy on some encounters even just with a 329 item level. Some overtuned encounters need to be brought down just a little but there aren't many of those. Haven't seen the raids yet beyond a couple beta tests but looking forward to them!
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90 Pandaren Shaman
8455
12/10/2010 1:19 PMPosted by Eloderung
It's not a return to TBC.

It's a re-envisioning of how healing should have been since the beginning, and they did a great job at it.


Agreed. It's incredibly frustrating at times but I feel like the effort I'm putting in right now will pay dividends down the line. It's going to feel good once I really master this new paradigm.

I'm actually starting to see tanks and DPS learning. CC and interrupts are back and make a difficult run incredibly smooth. I still find that I'm doing most of the CC and interrupts when I PuG but it will come in time.

I will say that running with Replenishment is a big boost.
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58 Draenei Death Knight
120
12/10/2010 3:41 PMPosted by Indyana
12/10/2010 1:19 PMPosted by Eloderung
It's not a return to TBC.

It's a re-envisioning of how healing should have been since the beginning, and they did a great job at it.


Agreed. It's incredibly frustrating at times but I feel like the effort I'm putting in right now will pay dividends down the line. It's going to feel good once I really master this new paradigm.



The problem is, there isn't much for you to master. You need to adjust to not spending mana. Everyone else needs to master the paradigm. You just need to stop healing as much as you did in wrath.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9615
clearly they must have envisioned that paladins would be the only viable healing class and that is how they made cataclysm
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90 Human Priest
16170
You may well be right that it's a complete re-envisioning, but that doesn't mean everyone--or even a majority--agrees with the direction they've taken healing.

Personally, as stated above, I wanted TBC-style mana cost, regen, and heal strength in relation to health pools. Not wet-noodle bandaids and a feeling of severe regression.


This is how I feel as well. I strongly feel that current healing is absolutely, without a doubt, the worst healing has ever been in this game. I have never had this little fun healing, never felt so bored with healing, before this week.
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90 Human Paladin
10440
12/10/2010 4:29 PMPosted by Shaquita
12/10/2010 1:19 PMPosted by Eloderung
It's not a return to TBC.

It's a re-envisioning of how healing should have been since the beginning, and they did a great job at it.


Your garbage in these threads is getting pretty lolworthy. We all know your class is fine. The rest of us are %@%*ing broken.


I'm not sure about that. The druids in my guild have been having a great time and my wife hasn't had problems on her shaman.

I have no input from any priests yet.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
3135

The problem is, there isn't much for you to master. You need to adjust to not spending mana. Everyone else needs to master the paradigm. You just need to stop healing as much as you did in wrath.



If wow truly has gone back to this I wouldn't mind. I though when I tried Wotlk that mana regen seemed to have gotten a buff. I use to have to have to use spells in intervals but when I came back and did that not only did I have mana but I found I barely used it. I mean come on guys if I can spam 10 CoH's with PoH at least before needing to drink water that's insane.


On another note is spell power tied into spirit now? I think a friend of mine was saying something like that.
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85 Tauren Druid
6940
12/10/2010 3:17 PMPosted by Levival
There is a huge skill cap on healing now, and they aren't going to make healing what YOU want. :dealwithit:


Fantastic contribution to this thread. Your argumentation is impeccable. Thank you.

12/10/2010 4:29 PMPosted by Shaquita
Your garbage in these threads is getting pretty lolworthy. We all know your class is fine. The rest of us are %@%*ing broken.


Comments like this don't help anyone, least of all those of us who dislike the new healing paradigm.

I mean come on guys if I can spam 10 CoH's with PoH at least before needing to drink water that's insane.


I'm not arguing that mana regen in Wrath wasn't too high. It was and ridiculously so at times, depending on how one specced and geared. What I'm arguing is that Blizzard is capable of making mana matter without making heals hit for so little in relation to tank and DPS health pools. They proved that with TBC, which is what a lot of us were hoping Cata would be like.

I mean, when resto druids in droves aren't taking Nature's Swiftness, our "emergency heal," because it only hits for 10-15% of tank HP and won't really save a life as intended, I think that speaks to an underlying problem with the structure of healing.

I've yet to hear a convincing reason as to why it was necessary to have such small heals in order to make mana matter--the primary reason given for the changes.
Edited by Moohammadali on 12/10/2010 8:25 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Priest
4400
Its still early days for me, having not hit 85 and only done a few instances, but I'm a little skeptical as to how this model is going to turn out.

I'm loving the changes to incoming damage, avoidable damage is devastating and unavoidable damage is manageable.

When I heard that healing was being changed to a model where mana mattered again, I was excited, having fond memories of abusing the 5-second rule to keep myself going. I had efficient slow heals, I had massive slow heals, I had in-efficient fast heals. It took alot of skill. I'm a touch worried that this new model will boil down to nothing more than spamming 'heal' and keeping renew on the tank, and sparing a heal for the DPS when I can.

It took a lot of skill to balance mana and healing in TBC, It'll be interesting to see if this carries to this new model of spamming your most efficient heals. I'll try not to worry until I experience more of the expansion. The sky may well not be falling, don't trust what you hear on the battle.net forums :3
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85 Worgen Priest
10245
12/10/2010 8:24 PMPosted by Moohammadali

Fantastic contribution to this thread. Your argumentation is impeccable. Thank you.

Comments like this don't help anyone, least of all those of us who dislike the new healing paradigm.

I'm not arguing that mana regen in Wrath wasn't too high. It was and ridiculously so at times, depending on how one specced and geared. What I'm arguing is that Blizzard is capable of making mana matter without making heals hit for so little in relation to tank and DPS health pools. They proved that with TBC, which is what a lot of us were hoping Cata would be like.

I mean, when resto druids in droves aren't taking Nature's Swiftness, our "emergency heal," because it only hits for 10-15% of tank HP and won't really save a life as intended, I think that speaks to an underlying problem with the structure of healing.

I've yet to hear a convincing reason as to why it was necessary to have such small heals in order to make mana matter--the primary reason given for the changes.

My understanding was the small heals are a way for blizzard to emulate the downranking that used to go on in TBC, while evading weird side effects of that practice, like getting absolutely absurd efficiency with the low ranks at higher spellpower values.
Edited by Sinter on 12/11/2010 12:17 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Priest
14340
12/11/2010 12:11 AMPosted by Lucyferr
I'm a touch worried that this new model will boil down to nothing more than spamming 'heal' and keeping renew on the tank, and sparing a heal for the DPS when I can.

Don't be.
There is a lot of heal spam and renew is kept up anyway if you're holy. But there's tons of other spells. I pop all my cds on almost every encounter (SF, HoH, DH, GS). It's challenging. It's fun. You gotta decide and decide well what to use and when. Spamming crap mindlessly will result in fail. You gotta plan out your fight.
It's awesome:)
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85 Undead Priest
6235
Only problem with this healing model is there are no PVP considerations regarding it and as a result pvp will be completely destroyed until they buff instant cast heals and make flash heal more sustainable.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
4400
12/11/2010 12:19 AMPosted by Sedivy
12/11/2010 12:11 AMPosted by Lucyferr
I'm a touch worried that this new model will boil down to nothing more than spamming 'heal' and keeping renew on the tank, and sparing a heal for the DPS when I can.

Don't be.
There is a lot of heal spam and renew is kept up anyway if you're holy. But there's tons of other spells. I pop all my cds on almost every encounter (SF, HoH, DH, GS). It's challenging. It's fun. You gotta decide and decide well what to use and when. Spamming crap mindlessly will result in fail. You gotta plan out your fight.
It's awesome:)

I'm glad to hear it :) I used to love that sort of thing. I remember having healing rotations in order to get through fights with enough mana hehe. Also I remember feeling like I'd earned the compliments I got when healing with new people.. Which never happened in Wrath
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- World of Warcraft
85 Tauren Paladin
6700
12/10/2010 8:24 PMPosted by Moohammadali

I've yet to hear a convincing reason as to why it was necessary to have such small heals in order to make mana matter--the primary reason given for the changes.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/1179708#blog

I think you should really read this blog he posted some time ago. And not just skim over it and say "I know what he's saying already," but really read and comprehend his points.

Let me iterate to you mine, which reinforces the blog post:

Healing was literally brain dead. You asked a Druid, "What do you use to heal?" They would respond, "WG on CD and Rejuv." A Paladin would answer "HL. Just HL." A Disc priest would say "Bubble. Bubble EVERYTHING."

Despite the challenges that were implemented in the game, it made no difference. Heals were an answer to everything. It was an answer to a player's mistake of not standing out of fire, of not watching out for themselves or interrupting. Heals were the thing that was so rudimentarily easy to apply to every situation that it stopped being fun.

Well not only did it blur the line between good healers and bad healers, but it stopped being gratifying.

I'm sorry, but you can't convince me that it's in any way, shape or form gratifying to steamroll through heroics spamming nothing but one heal. It's not a challenge. It's not something that proves to myself "I did this because I played intelligently." It was "Yerp, HL's a great spell because it's so efficient."

Playing a game should generally be centralized having the player have fun. For example, today I went into a Heroic Grim Batol. Last boss we wiped about five times. Last attempt we performed flawlessly -- and would you believe that I didn't stay below 75% Mana the whole time? I used one CD: LoH.

It was exhilarating, my group performed as a whole -- well and it rewarded me with the gratification of knowing that it was challenging and that I am getting my money's worth and more. It took practice but after that practice we did it and executed it as needed.

I don't remember the last time healing felt that good. I felt relieved that I saved a tank before a global -- that doesn't mean It feels gratifying.

Being constrained to the game mechanics that can be easily answered isn't fun. (Wrath).
Being constrained to the game mechanics because there's something that my group did that can do better and will do better on is fun. (Cata).

In all, healing is fine. It takes practice, and a lot of it. Get the hang of triage and you will succeed. Run with guildies and implement rules. Don't be afraid to CC an extra mob if it makes it easier on you. Don't be afraid to CC something YOURSELF. If you need someone else to dispell something -- tell them.

Communication is the name of the game in Cataclysm. And when Pugs/Healers don't do that, threads like these is what we get.
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