Mana at 85 is less an issue than at 80...

100 Draenei Paladin
20560
...relative to the content that you're healing, with proper play.

Just because you can run out of mana in 20 seconds doesn't mean you should do so. Nor does content require that you do so, whether it be normal modes or 5-man heroics or raid content.

A lot of people seem to be confusing the lvl85 Cataclysm healing environment with the following factors:

-Everyone being undergeared. Full ilvl333 is what heroics were tested with on beta, not half quest greens and blues. That gear makes a HUGE difference now relative to WotLK and prior, where gear did not scale anywhere near as sharply from 70. Unless you're a skilled player running with other unusually skilled players, you should probably follow that ilvl329 recommendation for heroics (without cheating the system).

-The average player re-adjusting to new content. Fresh 85 dps should be doing far more than the 3k dps I've seen in many random PUGs. Fights will be drastically more difficult if you're effectively down 1-2 dps for 5-man encounters. This is partially due to the reason above.

-A different progression path. You're meant to take advantage of all those nice rep vendor blues that are earned simply by questing. You're also meant to run normal modes before heroic modes for appropriate gear. I've seen far too many PUGs ignore both of these.

-Individual class balance. Yes, druids are weak right now. Yes, paladins are strong right now. No, this is not the reason that you're struggling in heroic content. Yes, the 85 healing environment is more enjoyable when you have tools to handle all situations.

-The fact that Cataclysm encounters are longer. Raid encounters often take 6-8+ minutes and 5-man encounters don't end within a minute (WotLK heroics on day1). Even if you were burning through mana fast in entry-level heroic WotLK content in entry-level gear, the fight would be over before OOM.

-Pre-tuning beta content. It still feels like some people are going off of the feedback given by beta testers (like me), which was used to fix much of what was wrong with the Cata healing environment a month or two before live.

I really can't think of why people would dislike the Cata 85 healing environment itself unless they were content to faceroll 5-man WotLK content all the time or preferred button mashing fps-like raid environments. The 85 healing environment has allowed for a LOT more potential difficulty and interesting healing mechanics in the raids I've seen so far, and it has done the same in 5-man content. And in 5-mans, it actually makes dps into a non-faceroll role in PUGs.
Edited by Eloderung on 12/13/2010 2:29 AM PST
Reply Quote
85 Troll Druid
10425
By all accounts, the paladin is the only healing class which is not broken or had it's playstyle homogenised to fit the Cataclysm model.
Reply Quote
85 Night Elf Druid
4710
I agree i love the healing enviroment....you just need to time ur procs right....play effeciantly and know your class...E.g Druids rely on HoTs way more...we cant just spam heals...i find it easy if you know what you doing and all these threads tell me that people have no clue about healing, it does require more skill but overall its made it so much funner, and yes...i envy palidans because they dont oom as much...get over it, theres always an OP class...get used to the game and stop your !*!%!ing...or learn to heal, and if you cant then quit WoW...
Edited by Zécca on 12/13/2010 5:15 AM PST
Reply Quote
1 Human Priest
0
12/13/2010 2:29 AMPosted by Eloderung

I really can't think of why people would dislike the Cata 85 healing environment itself unless they were content to faceroll 5-man WotLK content all the time or preferred button mashing fps-like raid environments.


That's exactly it. And it really makes me disappointed in the WoW playerbase. It's like they want WoW to be Farmville, where you just log on and mindlessly click things and just let the days of your life pass by.

"Oh look, my pumpkins are ready."

"Oh look, I just got my tier 11."
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
7365
Oh look another paladin without mana issues. I'm a druid, I used to be famous for having a infinite mana pool and being unable to go oom.
Reply Quote
12/13/2010 5:47 AMPosted by Orcabull
Oh look another paladin without mana issues. I'm a druid, I used to be famous for having a infinite mana pool and being unable to go oom.


That's the thing. You're suppose to be watching your mana.
Timing your heals right, and making sure the heal your going to use, is best used at that moment. It's not blizz's fault you're ooming, it yours because you're not watching your mana properly.
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
7365
12/13/2010 5:53 AMPosted by Faìth
12/13/2010 5:47 AMPosted by Orcabull
Oh look another paladin without mana issues. I'm a druid, I used to be famous for having a infinite mana pool and being unable to go oom.


That's the thing. You're suppose to be watching your mana.
Timing your heals right, and making sure the heal your going to use, is best used at that moment. It's not blizz's fault you're ooming, it yours because you're not watching your mana properly.


I can practice this triage healing system all I want and still be oom because my heals are too weak due to piss poor scaling. I HAVE TO SPAM to keep the tanks alive on my boss fights. My best heal in absolutly perfect condition is a max of 25k. It costs 5600 mana(5096 w/ 2/2 Moonglow, which I have). It doesn't take long to go oom with a 70k mana pool using THAT spell.

I know I should use LBx3 and nourish but nourish cannt heal for #!!#.
Edited by Orcabull on 12/13/2010 6:03 AM PST
Reply Quote
85 Orc Shaman
2630
That's the issue I have. We HAVE to spam during boss fights. 6.6k mana for 18-20k heal just sucks. I can't let the tank go below 50% and then it takes me 1/2 my mana pool to get them back up, if I can even do that. I realize I need gear, but I'm going to need about 150k mana pool to keep up on any fight that last more than 2 minutes. I can't wait long enough to let my mana regen because the tank will be dead by then.
Reply Quote
85 Night Elf Priest
6920
12/13/2010 2:29 AMPosted by Eloderung
...relative to the content that you're healing, with proper play.

Just because you can run out of mana in 20 seconds doesn't mean you should do so. Nor does content require that you do so, whether it be normal modes or 5-man heroics or raid content.

A lot of people seem to be confusing the lvl85 Cataclysm healing environment with the following factors:

-Everyone being undergeared. Full ilvl333 is what heroics were tested with on beta, not half quest greens and blues. That gear makes a HUGE difference now relative to WotLK and prior, where gear did not scale anywhere near as sharply from 70. Unless you're a skilled player running with other unusually skilled players, you should probably follow that ilvl329 recommendation for heroics (without cheating the system).

-The average player re-adjusting to new content. Fresh 85 dps should be doing far more than the 3k dps I've seen in many random PUGs. Fights will be drastically more difficult if you're effectively down 1-2 dps for 5-man encounters. This is partially due to the reason above.

-A different progression path. You're meant to take advantage of all those nice rep vendor blues that are earned simply by questing. You're also meant to run normal modes before heroic modes for appropriate gear. I've seen far too many PUGs ignore both of these.

-Individual class balance. Yes, druids are weak right now. Yes, paladins are strong right now. No, this is not the reason that you're struggling in heroic content. Yes, the 85 healing environment is more enjoyable when you have tools to handle all situations.

-The fact that Cataclysm encounters are longer. Raid encounters often take 6-8+ minutes and 5-man encounters don't end within a minute (WotLK heroics on day1). Even if you were burning through mana fast in entry-level heroic WotLK content in entry-level gear, the fight would be over before OOM.

-Pre-tuning beta content. It still feels like some people are going off of the feedback given by beta testers (like me), which was used to fix much of what was wrong with the Cata healing environment a month or two before live.

I really can't think of why people would dislike the Cata 85 healing environment itself unless they were content to faceroll 5-man WotLK content all the time or preferred button mashing fps-like raid environments. The 85 healing environment has allowed for a LOT more potential difficulty and interesting healing mechanics in the raids I've seen so far, and it has done the same in 5-man content. And in 5-mans, it actually makes dps into a non-faceroll role in PUGs.


As a healing veteran (Played a Priest in Classic, a Paladin in BC, all four classes in WotLK and currently playing a Priest) I completely agree Elo.

I'm not wearing these so called "rose coloured glasses" when I say healing is fine.

People have asked me "why are you playing a healing priest when they're so terrible?" and I always respond with my own question "why do you feel we're so underpowered when I was just able to successfully complete that boss encounter?"

This is all just part of the progression curve.

We're back to the model we had in BC.

Quests < Dungeons < Heroic Dungeons < Raiding

We need to gear up for each tier of content AND play at a skill level that each tier demands.

Hint! The above is now true of all roles
Reply Quote
85 Night Elf Priest
6920
12/13/2010 7:20 AMPosted by Retà
12/13/2010 7:15 AMPosted by Pocketpriest
As a healing veteran (Played a Priest in Classic, a Paladin in BC, all four classes in WotLK and currently playing a Priest) I completely agree Elo.

I'm not wearing these so called "rose coloured glasses" when I say healing is fine.

People have asked me "why are you playing a healing priest when they're so terrible?" and I always respond with my own question "why do you feel we're so underpowered when I was just able to successfully complete that boss encounter?"

This is all just part of the progression curve.

We're back to the model we had in BC.

Quests < Dungeons < Heroic Dungeons < Raiding

We need to gear up for each tier of content AND play at a skill level that each tier demands.

Hint! The above is now true of all roles


I know, I know - we're all just bad.


I never said that nor did I imply it.

The new content requires a good amount of teamwork, knowing the fight mechanics and adjusting to any given situation.

Some players haven't gotten enough regular loot to do well in heroics, some are getting stuck in PuGs with players who are less skilled and many aren't even attempting to adjust to the changes to the healing system.

I'm by no means a great healer.

I'm a casual, I downed SWP before WotLK, you'll notice I'm not a Kingslayer etc, but I have completed many of these so called "Horrorics" and I have come across many decent PuGs.

People will adapt. The new system is fine.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
11845
12/13/2010 6:01 AMPosted by Orcabull


I can practice this triage healing system all I want and still be oom because my heals are too weak due to piss poor scaling. I HAVE TO SPAM to keep the tanks alive on my boss fights. My best heal in absolutly perfect condition is a max of 25k. It costs 5600 mana(5096 w/ 2/2 Moonglow, which I have). It doesn't take long to go oom with a 70k mana pool using THAT spell.

I know I should use LBx3 and nourish but nourish cannt heal for #!!#.


You never have to spam during a boss fight. There is not a single heroic boss in the game that requires HT spam. Not a one. You should be using SM as our version of WoG for heroics as well.

And good grief, fix your spec. You decided not to max out Heart of the Wild (2% more int) and not take Furor at all (15% mana).
Reply Quote
85 Night Elf Priest
6920
12/13/2010 7:07 AMPosted by Retà
Basically, Orcabull and Zeugir put it better than I could.

OP, I really do respect you and I've followed your posts and thoughts from the Beta for several months now. But, in this case, I could not disagree more. I'm okay with mana mattering. I'm okay with going OOM if I make a bad choice in how to heal someone. That's fine - it makes sense, and it's how it should be.

What I am not okay with is going OOM no matter what I do. No matter how careful I am, no matter how I try to use my most efficient heal, Healing Wave heals for so little that I have to spam it just to hope to keep up with tank damage. It has been made clear to me in quite a few instances in the last few days that Healing Wave just isn't going to be enough about 80% of the time. In fact, NONE of my heals are going to be "enough" about half the time. I've had tanks drop on me mid-cast of a Healing Surge, which I had been spamming frantically trying to get them back up from the brink...

Of course, I would have OOMd in the next few moments, but I didn't even get the chance - tank was already dead because the damage he was taking was so massive.


All of the tanks have CDs that can be used in these cases. Shamans should be given one imo and so should druid healers (possibly something that cannot be cast on themselves).
Reply Quote
40 Gnome Mage
0
Pallies may have it a bit easier when it comes to mana usage, but then again have you looked at pallies regen tools? Divine Plea 10% (15% if glpyhed) and a 50% healing debuff, last 15secs... so yea pallies need the free heals because we get punished when using our regen tool
Reply Quote
85 Human Priest
3585
12/13/2010 2:29 AMPosted by Eloderung

I really can't think of why people would dislike the Cata 85 healing environment itself unless they were content to faceroll 5-man WotLK content all the time or preferred button mashing fps-like raid environments. The 85 healing environment has allowed for a LOT more potential difficulty and interesting healing mechanics in the raids I've seen so far, and it has done the same in 5-man content. And in 5-mans, it actually makes dps into a non-faceroll role in PUGs.


This looks like an attempt to dismiss anyone who has an opinion different from yours by labeling them as a "faceroller". Bad Form.

The issues I have with the current model have nothing to do with wanting it to be "faceroll" easy. Not at all. I love the mana issues, I just feel that- for example- when I hit flash heal and pay out a chunk of mana, I expect a caster health bar to move. It doesn't. I don't think spell costs match the effect the spell has. The three core heals do not currently, imo perform their intended functions. GHeal barely moves a tank health bar. It is supposed to be a tank heal. For the cost and cast time, it is not functioning correctly, imo.
Reply Quote
85 Orc Shaman
0
Shamans are 100% fine for healing heroics. I cannot speak for raids yet, unfortunately. But our healing arsenal is powerful and diverse and can easily handle all heroic content. I've done every single fight, and the only one I have yet to beat is Heroic Commander Springvale (who is optional) because our DPS wasn't high enough to kill the adds before they can heal him.
Edited by Primacy on 12/13/2010 8:24 AM PST
Reply Quote
So far I've seen multiple people from every single class say that everything is at least feasible. Paladin healing may be a little better off, but everyone else is perfectly capable of getting their party from beginning to end if everyone else is doing what they should be.

Not saying people are bad. Just that they might be a bit mixed up somewhere or they might consistently have terribad parties.

I think in a month, people will be doing the cata dance and avoiding damage more often. The complaints about mana will dwindle down to a trickle because we'll have nothing to complain about. And our gear will pave the rest of the way, allowing us to still put out more and lose less.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]