Healers taking the brunt of the Cataclysm

85 Troll Druid
4805
12/13/2010 12:18 PMPosted by Naronas
@healers who are complaining. allow me to reiterate, YOUR DOING IT WRONG. I dinged 85, used some ilevl gear to game blizards broken ilvl system and healed my first heroic. Heroic Grim Batol (one of the harder ones if you haven't done it) THis was done at around 75k mana, and 1400 regen. WHich is very very low. I had to drink every pull, but I didn't let people die on trash, and the boss deaths were insta-gbis (i,e) flame adds. If you are going OOM, or not healing for enough either a) your not healing well, or b) your group is full of morons.

@dps. QUit blaming your healer because your mentally hadicapped. LOL I STOOOD IN THE FIRE AND DIED YOUR TERRiBLE HEALER. SOme fire ticks at 40-50k a second. My BIGGEST heal hits for around 20 k after a 2 second cast. If you pull aggro, you die before i can even get a FoL off. Honestly, if you do something stupid, you die. And I couldn't be happier about this change.

@Tanks. Use CDs on trash. Trash isn't a joke on some pulls. Enough said.


And you're a pally.. Enough said
85 Goblin Warrior
0
12/13/2010 12:15 PMPosted by Twîstedkìtty


Point being when i have 6k SP from trinket procs etc at all timnes Flask/food as well.. Explain to my as a druid why my heals still heal for nearly the same?

You need a lot of SP to improve any heal obviously

im not asking to have a hot that heals for 120k im just asking to not only have 1 option to handle a emergency situation.

When you hit a tank with a 25k crit on healing touh and in the same time he takes just as much damage.. there you go.. same result of being up crap creek without a paddle until your oom.

Healers are paying for everyones screw ups right now and thats just dumb.


They don't heal for nearly the same. If they did, then spellpower wouldn't affect the spell.

The numbers, and the decisions actually matter now. That's the difference between Cataclysm and Wrath. If I'm sitting at 10% health, the bigger your heals hit, the faster you can get me back to a comfortable spot and help the rest of the group. In Wrath I wouldn't even be at 10% health. I would have been 1-shot from 70% to dead in an instant. Now I can smack Last Stand and feel like I made a huge difference in buying you time to heal me. You can blow your trinkets and help me hit full a little bit faster, without consuming as much mana.

But, again, like the other guy, you're playing a Resto Druid. Their problems aren't because of this overhaul in healing philosophy. Its purely down to the fact that your class is pretty badly designed right now. Its the Blood Death Knight of the healing world. You've got almost no actual decision-making to do the majority of the time.

Edit: Gawd, if you website monkeys are going to stop the infinite quote thing, at least stop quotes picking up every dang one.
Edited by Bibdi on 12/13/2010 12:22 PM PST
85 Human Paladin
9395
What I really find funny is it's a pally complaining. Pallys arent OP, but were incredibly well balanced in terms of efficiency, cooldowns, and heal size right now. Preist, i can see a little QQ, but even then they are not broken beyond use, they just take more skill.
85 Tauren Paladin
4430
12/13/2010 9:40 AMPosted by Latteheals
So far even with an 80k mana pool it only takes one mob to drain it completely, and this isn't just myself. So far every healer on the realm with the exception of shamans are having problems maintaining their mana pools even with pro groups that do everything right. I think that the raid mechanics are fun and all, but I think they should just go ahead and put those mechanics back in raids, OR fix the dungeon finder tool to provide at least two viable CC'ers since it's required in these new dungeons on their heroic modes.

I know it didn't matter what kind of group you had in WoTLK so the dungeon tool could be non-discriminate and pick up whatever classes were available..., but with the requirements of cataclysm heroic dungeons, if the groups are not tailored to what is needed the pugs will always be fail no matter how good the individual players are in them.


Ok. As a tank, I see this often, as often as I don't see it. Healers going OOM left and right. Just like I see DPS or other tanks standing in fire / damage / not avoiding crap. Healers are spamming out their biggest spells....and on and on and on.

The fault is really the healers pretty often (yes, really). You need to let the DPS die. You NEED to. For the sake of your mana. Bad dps are bad, if they take excessive dmg constantly, it's their fault. If the tank is being bad and stupid and not using CC when it's available and takes massive damage from not moving...then you need another tank, or he needs some strong "advice".

Our healer in heroics is a priest and keeps down a Lightwell for DPS, and only heals them if they need it (boss effects and unavoidable burst dmg). She goes OOM maybe 20% of the time. In heroics. In regulars I see healers going OOM every single pull. They spam the fast spells, that consume massive mana, left and right.

There is a lot of L2P to spread around, and I've grouped with a few spectacular healers (in pugs no less) that have never gone oom. It's amazing, even without CC they don't. I think healers need to play as healers and try things out, and stop pretending they can level as DPS and heal with no cata heal experience.
Edited by Bovusmaximus on 12/13/2010 12:25 PM PST
85 Human Paladin
9395
We have a guild disc priest who healed a heroic VC at a similar level of gear fine. Don't play the your class is so OP right now card, because thats just not true. Healers who know how to make adjustments tho their playstyle are fine right now, in every class. It's the people who think they have to overheal and keep everyone topped off who arent.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
4195
Just to throw this out there, it might have more to do with the rest of the group than with the healing mechanics on its own.

Running heroic Throne of the Tides last night, we wiped over and over on the first boss due to a bad DPS that was taking way too much unnecessary damage. The healer was ooming and letting me drop (the tank) because he had to spend so much time watching the health of a DPS that wouldn't get out of the tornadoes.

The healer, frustrated, finally stopped healing the one DPS. DPS died quickly, the 4 of us continued to clear the boss without a problem. The DPS dropped, we got a new one, and the rest of the heroic continued smoothly.

Admittedly, this is just one anecdotal example, but the point is that things are so different now. There are MANY mechanics where dps can make things much harder on the healer, and the healer might not even realize that something is wrong.

So basically what I am saying is, don't get frustrated and blame the healing mechanics. It might well be that you are not intended to get the kill because of how the rest of your group is playing poorly. One bad DPS can make that difference when the margins are as tight as they are right now.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
8390
I can see the frustration with heroics. Dear god I would not PuG one if my life depended on it. As far as I'm concerned the LFG dungeon tool is dead (at least for heroics and until we are all in T12).

Heroics are difficult in a variety of ways...and being in a group where people don't care cause it's people they will never see again just brings rudeness to it that is just annoying.

The way I explained healing to my guild mates is simple. Don't screw up...if you do, I will have the mana to save you once...do it again and you are dead, we'll wipe it and try again. Tanks have to position the boss to not cleave, whirl on others, DPS has to run out, purge, CC, stun (I do a fair share of interrupts as well) and everything they can in order to lessen damage done. If they don't, we wipe.

Keeping it this way is great for us who have a guild of people who are prepared for this, I feel bad for anyone who only uses the PuG tool for heroics right now. You have my condolences and sympathy.
Edited by Rendaelyne on 12/13/2010 1:00 PM PST
80 Night Elf Druid
2730
It's hard to tell who to blame at this point.

It's possible that healers are still trying to top everyone off and going OOM in 8 seconds because of it.

It's possible that tanks are still pulling 4-5 groups at a time, not realizing that it's not possible to heal through that anymore.

It's possible that DPS aren't even attempting to avoid or mitigate damage because they don't realize it's not possible to heal through it anymore.

The healers are taking the brunt of it, though, because in Cata the healer is always the first person you blame when something goes wrong; because in Wrath a good healer could heal through ANYTHING that went wrong.

All I can say is level an alt if you don't have the stomach to deal with this new learning process everyone is going through.
85 Night Elf Mage
7110
12/13/2010 10:36 AMPosted by Kalaryia
Just be aware that a lot of your healing difficulties are likely due to DPS. DPS pulling aggro, DPS standing in fire, DPS having a generally "WotLK faceroll" attitude about things, in short.


Bull@@%@.

I'm growing increasingly tired of "my inadequacies as a tank or healer can just be blamed on the DPS". Take some accountability for your own shortcomings. Yes, there are dumb DPS.. but in my experiences there are also plenty of dumb tanks and healers as well. I'm sorry, but the "WotLK mentality" doesn't just encompass DPS. Get over yourselves.
11 Goblin Mage
40
http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com/2010/12/cataclysm-heroics-can-be-trivialized.html
85 Human Paladin
9395
12/13/2010 12:28 PMPosted by Illythia
12/13/2010 10:36 AMPosted by Kalaryia
Just be aware that a lot of your healing difficulties are likely due to DPS. DPS pulling aggro, DPS standing in fire, DPS having a generally "WotLK faceroll" attitude about things, in short.


Bull@@%@.

I'm growing increasingly tired of "my inadequacies as a tank or healer can just be blamed on the DPS". Take some accountability for your own shortcomings. Yes, there are dumb DPS.. but in my experiences there are also plenty of dumb tanks and healers as well. I'm sorry, but the "WotLK mentality" doesn't just encompass DPS. Get over yourselves.


While that may be true for some DPS, you know damn well that the majority of dps players haven't figured this out yet. I watch in randoms. DPS stand in tornados, fire, then blame a helaer for not helaing through it. Want proof? Go play a random on a healer and watch the dps do it. Youll become as bitter and aded as 90% of us healers.
85 Tauren Warrior
5565
This really was all discussed WAY (like a year ago) before Cataclysm was even released by blizzard, in the blizzard forums.

If you're just now figuring out that over-healing and AoE tanking are out then you really are behind the times. Tanks are now obligated to find ways to mitigate big damage attacks (Pretty much all trash mobs and bosses have one) raids are required to l2p and not stand in fire, and healers are now forced to concentrate on situational awareness rather than facerolling.

This is WoW prior to welfare epics and bc babies. If you cant cope roll dps and PvP.
85 Human Paladin
6015
12/13/2010 10:40 AMPosted by Mxahan
12/13/2010 10:34 AMPosted by Nethaera
It's definitely challenging to heal in Cataclysm and that's by design. We want players to pick and choose what spells to use and when. Those in your group will also need to be conscious of whether or not they're putting out enough DPS, taking too much damage, and more. You'll probably be pulling out more "tricks" from your bag than you've been doing in awhile. You're also going to miss a time or two, run out of mana at a bad time and find yourself trying to figure out just what went wrong. Even experienced healers are going to have to dig their heels in a bit.

That said, we're keeping an eye out for how healing is going and should we feel there need to be adjustments, we'll make them. As many have noticed, we're starting to get a larger population of level 85 players who will be running through the content and getting better gear to compliment their spells and abilities. That should help some.


You seem to be off by a little bit though.

You want us to pick and choose our healing spells, but if you want that you should really think about making our 'heavy' spells heal for more, the current ratio doesn't allow for us to use these spells.


This seems the biggest problem to me. When I do resort to my big heal, it feels totally gimped. I do not want the dungeons nerfed, but I would like my big heal and possibly my aoe heal to be bumped up. Some boss fights do put out some crazy aoe damage. Oh and stars in vortex. I really hate those stars.
85 Human Death Knight
9450
12/13/2010 10:34 AMPosted by Nethaera
It's definitely challenging to heal in Cataclysm and that's by design. We want players to pick and choose what spells to use and when.

I believe this is why we're going to see some subscription losses.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing to want healers to heal better. I'm not saying it's a good thing in how it was implemented. I'm saying that Healers will stop healing. They will choose to be DPS instead. That means it's going to be 2 hour wait times to get a dungeon as a DPS.

I guarantee in the next 6 months DPS wait time in dungeons will peak at 2 hours.

That is the danger zone.
Edited by Elineé on 12/13/2010 12:35 PM PST
85 Troll Druid
4805


But, again, like the other guy, you're playing a Resto Druid. Their problems aren't because of this overhaul in healing philosophy. Its purely down to the fact that your class is pretty badly designed right now. Its the Blood Death Knight of the healing world. You've got almost no actual decision-making to do the majority of the time.

Edit: Gawd, if you website monkeys are going to stop the infinite quote thing, at least stop quotes picking up every dang one.


Atleast someone pays attention, I don't want anything about content changed. I like things how they are. I just believe that Resto Druids in a sense got nerfed because of HOW we heal. While yes, I've now completed heroics, the issue is still there.

Its not like ive not taken the time to look at how things CAN be none, should be done and do what i know is going to help my mana be at a decent level to complete the boss encounter. I don't really have an issue on trash as long as the tank isn't a ding bat and pulls all and we CC thats just too much damage to heal through. & Yes I let DPS die all the time if they are being silly and not doing what they are supposed too but when you've gone through however many dps, and run into a situation where a boss has AOE damage going on and you have only a bit of mana left and have the choice of healing the tank an healing the dps so they don't die if another tick of aoe goes off... it becomes difficult and exhausting wiping over and over again because as many have said healers cannot carry ppl anymore.
36 Worgen Warrior
160
12/13/2010 12:27 PMPosted by Kamaia
12/13/2010 12:16 PMPosted by Mxahan

My complaints about healing aren't about difficulty, they're about boredom.


Oh, I see. You thought I was replying to you personally and not the OP or commenting on the thread in general.

[quote="14063106171"]
And aoe heals needed to be nerfed, however they are now uselss.


Heal: 5.81 hp/mp
Prayer of Healing: 11.5 hp/mp

http://elitistjerks.com/f77/t110245-cataclysm_holy_priest_compendium/[/quote]

You can't compare efficiency of an aoe heal to our staple single target heal that is made to not heal very much at all, things don't work like that.

Double of barely anything is still barely anything.
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