Healers taking the brunt of the Cataclysm

85 Worgen Druid
2050
12/13/2010 10:45 AMPosted by Mxahan
10-15 percent of max health on a heal that takes an 8th of your total mana?

That is off in my book.

I'm not asking for a spell that heals people to full health.

But a healing spell that takes that much mana should probably heal more in the range of 30-40 percent of a person's max health, otherwise there's no point in using it when you could instead use 'heal' 3 times for less mana and more health.


here's how it works:

druid: expensive powerful heal... clearcasting proc = free cast with cast time? OMG is that a coincidence? NO! I use an expensive heal every single time I get a clearcasting proc, why? because it's FREE! I haven't played my shaman or priest since cata, but I'm sure they have similar ways of conserving mana.
85 Draenei Mage
2700
12/13/2010 10:46 AMPosted by Pulzug
12/13/2010 10:42 AMPosted by Vynalla
Tanks and healers pay in order for everyone else to enjoy the game.

That's the way things are set up. Yes many do enjoy tanking and healing.. (have a healer myself) but there's a reason why you get a group instantly as a tank or healer, but have a 50 min wait as a dps.

Blizzard has set things up that some peoples enjoyment comes at the cost of others. Either make tanking and healing more fun, or make it hold less responsibility on the entire groups success or failure.

Will there every be a time when DPS is in shortage on the LFD? How come so few play tanks?

Why is this?


I couldnt disagree with this more. There are fewer tanks and healers because most people dont want the responsibility of dealing with a critical role. You HAVE to pay attention as a tank or healer, and in the past you could sleep through being DPS. This is no longer the case as due to mechanics you at least have to pay passing attention to your surroundings, interrupts, CC, and buffs/debuffs to be successful as DPS. Eventually the poor dps will realize this and either step up or quit. Once they realize that they are just as much responsible for a groups success as the tank/healer I think you will find a much more even matchup in queue times.


Actually I think we agree more then you realize.

Of course the dps need to help out and be much more smart about CC, utility, and what they do, but that is the ideal outcome. Right now it seems they are making things harder on a class that doesn't need to be discouraged more then it is.

Everyone needs to play smart, that's a given. But has a healer I was way more challenged, and felt much more responsible for a group then I ever did as dps and cc.

How long shall we wait for the entire player-base to realize DPS is just as responsible as the tank and healer?

Why are there so much more DPS then tanks and healers? (Even given the three to one ratio where you need 1 healer, 1 tank, and 3 dps and there's still not enough tanks and healers.)

I'm talking about the enjoyment of playing the class, not so much the dependence of success. Of course everyone needs to do their part,.. but why do tanks and healers feel it so much more? And how come there's such a shortage?
Edited by Vynalla on 12/13/2010 10:56 AM PST
90 Troll Druid
11665
The only concern I have, is that all the weight of group maintenance is being pushed back to the healer once more. We have the greatest responsibility now. If the game were designed well, each role should have an equal representation of responsibility in an encounter.
85 Dwarf Paladin
3655
It's not the healers fault or the tanks fault. People just do not want to crowd control trash. It puts the tanks, and healers in bad spots. Tank has to pick it up, and the healer has got to keep me up. All while the DPS is sitting back crying because they died because they won't interrupt or cc.

It's the same story all the way back to vanilla.
36 Worgen Warrior
160
12/13/2010 10:54 AMPosted by Shøul
12/13/2010 10:45 AMPosted by Mxahan
10-15 percent of max health on a heal that takes an 8th of your total mana?

That is off in my book.

I'm not asking for a spell that heals people to full health.

But a healing spell that takes that much mana should probably heal more in the range of 30-40 percent of a person's max health, otherwise there's no point in using it when you could instead use 'heal' 3 times for less mana and more health.


here's how it works:

druid: expensive powerful heal... clearcasting proc = free cast with cast time? OMG is that a coincidence? NO! I use an expensive heal every single time I get a clearcasting proc, why? because it's FREE! I haven't played my shaman or priest since cata, but I'm sure they have similar ways of conserving mana.


Not every healer is a druid and not every healer has clearcasting.
90 Troll Priest
6155
12/13/2010 10:34 AMPosted by Nethaera
It's definitely challenging to heal in Cataclysm and that's by design. We want players to pick and choose what spells to use and when. Those in your group will also need to be conscious of whether or not they're putting out enough DPS, taking too much damage, and more. You'll probably be pulling out more "tricks" from your bag than you've been doing in awhile. You're also going to miss a time or two, run out of mana at a bad time and find yourself trying to figure out just what went wrong. Even experienced healers are going to have to dig their heels in a bit.

That said, we're keeping an eye out for how healing is going and should we feel there need to be adjustments, we'll make them. As many have noticed, we're starting to get a larger population of level 85 players who will be running through the content and getting better gear to compliment their spells and abilities. That should help some.


pls dont change healing being challenging!!! I really really missed back in vinilla when you had to actually choose the correct lvl of the spell to use so you;
A. didnt go out of mana and
B. didnt over heal so you were more efficient with your mana which feed back into A

When the system changed and the old versions of spells were removed. Regen was increased, and healing was increased... and the challenge was gone...

as soon as this toon hits 85 shes going healing all the way. As it is (totally under geared and running regs with similarly geared folks) its pretty fun healing.

Also keep in mind that people will get better gear it will become less challenging than it is now.
85 Troll Rogue
5400
You don't have to keep people topped off...
85 Worgen Druid
10975
12/13/2010 10:34 AMPosted by Nethaera
It's definitely challenging to heal in Cataclysm and that's by design. We want players to pick and choose what spells to use and when. Those in your group will also need to be conscious of whether or not they're putting out enough DPS, taking too much damage, and more. You'll probably be pulling out more "tricks" from your bag than you've been doing in awhile. You're also going to miss a time or two, run out of mana at a bad time and find yourself trying to figure out just what went wrong. Even experienced healers are going to have to dig their heels in a bit.

That said, we're keeping an eye out for how healing is going and should we feel there need to be adjustments, we'll make them. As many have noticed, we're starting to get a larger population of level 85 players who will be running through the content and getting better gear to compliment their spells and abilities. That should help some.


The healing changes actually have me using fewer spells. Rejuv and regrowth hardly ever see action now due to the extreme mana costs.

I also have yet to see any fight that requires a good amount of dps. Most bosses are still dead in 1-2 minutes. Heroics certainly got a lot harder for healers, but the only dps change I've seen is casting a cc ability once per pull.
90 Undead Mage
6045
12/13/2010 10:34 AMPosted by Nethaera
It's definitely challenging to heal in Cataclysm and that's by design. We want players to pick and choose what spells to use and when. Those in your group will also need to be conscious of whether or not they're putting out enough DPS, taking too much damage, and more. You'll probably be pulling out more "tricks" from your bag than you've been doing in awhile. You're also going to miss a time or two, run out of mana at a bad time and find yourself trying to figure out just what went wrong. Even experienced healers are going to have to dig their heels in a bit.

That said, we're keeping an eye out for how healing is going and should we feel there need to be adjustments, we'll make them. As many have noticed, we're starting to get a larger population of level 85 players who will be running through the content and getting better gear to compliment their spells and abilities. That should help some.



healing priest wont exist in pvp, just sayin
90 Tauren Druid
12940
12/13/2010 10:55 AMPosted by Jotch
The only concern I have, is that all the weight of group maintenance is being pushed back to the healer once more. We have the greatest responsibility now. If the game were designed well, each role should have an equal representation of responsibility in an encounter.



While this does hold some water, the healer only has trouble when the other two aren't doing thier roles properly.

As seen in wrath, healers had the least stressful role because the other two had less to worry about. I rejuved/wild growthed my way through heroics for nearly a year, and before that I threw in a bit of regrowth and nourish on the tougher ones.

But other than that, it was macroing those two spells to L and O and just alternating while watching tv.





And as a small addition to Neth's post, I believe Rejuv does need a small reduction in mana cost. It just doesn't perform it's niche at all with how much it takes to cast it.

(Or at least the niche I think it's supposed to fill, the druid's "aoe heal" type specialization.)
Edited by Blargg on 12/13/2010 11:05 AM PST
85 Tauren Druid
9460
12/13/2010 10:34 AMPosted by Nethaera
It's definitely challenging to heal in Cataclysm and that's by design. We want players to pick and choose what spells to use and when. Those in your group will also need to be conscious of whether or not they're putting out enough DPS, taking too much damage, and more. You'll probably be pulling out more "tricks" from your bag than you've been doing in awhile. You're also going to miss a time or two, run out of mana at a bad time and find yourself trying to figure out just what went wrong. Even experienced healers are going to have to dig their heels in a bit.

That said, we're keeping an eye out for how healing is going and should we feel there need to be adjustments, we'll make them. As many have noticed, we're starting to get a larger population of level 85 players who will be running through the content and getting better gear to compliment their spells and abilities. That should help some.


Please don't nerf the game!
85 Tauren Shaman
7315
disclaimer / full disclosure:
only dinged 85 last night and I have yet to heal a heroic
that said, I think I have a good feel for what Bliz is trying to do with healing and mana management.

I agree (a little) with the OP. Healers can have a harder job than the other people in the party, but that's pretty much contingent on the party working as a team. If the team performs, them my job is a lot easier. If the team underperforms, then my job is harder.

It was like that in Wrath too, that hasn't changed.

What has changed is my mindset, if someone is repeatedly taking what I feel is too much damage, I've got to let them die. Got to. I can't spend the mana keeping them up.

With regard to spell usage, I'm using a lot more spells than I was in Wrath, and I love it.

Love it!

I'm participating in CC, time my heals for effect instead of spamming, using mana regen as soon as it comes off cooldown every time, potting, I'm flasking for 5-mans (the Wrath flasks are so cheap, why not?) I'm using more of my toolbox than ever before and it's great.

Class specific, Riptide is now a major healing force, I control heal pools with HoT management and not spamming to top off all the time. It's really fun. My big heals are kept in reserve for big hits, and I can SEE the hits coming, I have enough time to get the heal out and boom, tank topped off, takes big hit, HoT them back up. Way fun.

People will get used to sitting at 80% health. They'll have to.
85 Troll Shaman
4390
12/13/2010 10:34 AMPosted by Nethaera
It's definitely challenging to heal in Cataclysm and that's by design. We want players to pick and choose what spells to use and when. Those in your group will also need to be conscious of whether or not they're putting out enough DPS, taking too much damage, and more. You'll probably be pulling out more "tricks" from your bag than you've been doing in awhile. You're also going to miss a time or two, run out of mana at a bad time and find yourself trying to figure out just what went wrong. Even experienced healers are going to have to dig their heels in a bit.

That said, we're keeping an eye out for how healing is going and should we feel there need to be adjustments, we'll make them. As many have noticed, we're starting to get a larger population of level 85 players who will be running through the content and getting better gear to compliment their spells and abilities. That should help some.


The whole mentality that we're supposed to be pulling out "more tricks" doesn't seem to materialize in the game world. The normal dungeons I've ran have consisted of spamming nothing but my biggest heal non-stop until my eyes bleed.

I wanted to be versatile and use all my "tricks", they just didn't do anything worthwhile and wound up being a complete waste of time.

My biggest heal was needed for virtually every bit of incoming damage and even it was woefully underpowered for the job. The groups didn't stand in stupid or take much unnecessary damage, but nonetheless I was reduced to a one button healer.

Healing rain and chain heal barely mattered. Any lesser heal did nothing helpful at all. It was a matter of spam a quick heal 25 times, or the big heal 15 times. No other options...

Solo is where the healing(on this toon) really gets annoying. Questing resto is like a root canal considering the hps of mobs and how slowly you kill, but going ele is nearly as bad.

My average single mob fight, generally speaking, leaves me around 20-60k absent hps. This means after every fight I have to cast my largest heal(which has been doing around 10-12k non crit as ele) anywhere from 2-6 times.

For one mob...and it costs 7k mana.
Forget about if you take on 2+ mobs.

I understand this xpac was touted as being "harder" and healers bear the burden most of all, but this isn't hard...it's merely tedious.

Questing to 85 felt like a tedious repetition of kill, cast biggest heal 5 times, more than half mana gone, next mob kill, big heal 5 times(or eat), drink. /repeat

As resto in instances my mana wasn't a huge issue. I ran out sometimes, got low mostly all the time. Healing isn't hard, it's just a very very tedious chore since we're carrying the xpac on our shoulders with the poor regen and poor healing spells.

No dps ran out of mana on my runs. It was kill mobs, wait for healer to drink(no matter how I tried to heal-big heals, little, "tricks"), while dps and melee twiddled their thumbs. I Q'd as dps to watch other healers and it was the same bag. Kill, wait for heals to drink while dps twiddles thumbs, repeat.

Again, it doesn't make this xpac hard, just tedious.
85 Blood Elf Warlock
3340
Blizzard is making it too hard on healers in Cataclysm..

/cast flash heal
/cast flash heal
/cast flash heal
/cast flash heal
/cast flash heal

They really need to rework the mechanics of healers or change mana regen.

/cast flash heal
/cast flash heal
/cast flash heal
/cast flash heal
/cast flash heal


O.o

/slap healer
Wotlk healing mindset fades from healer

Now, let's start this thread all over shall we.

85 Worgen Druid
4480
12/13/2010 10:59 AMPosted by Mantooth
12/13/2010 10:34 AMPosted by Nethaera
It's definitely challenging to heal in Cataclysm and that's by design. We want players to pick and choose what spells to use and when. Those in your group will also need to be conscious of whether or not they're putting out enough DPS, taking too much damage, and more. You'll probably be pulling out more "tricks" from your bag than you've been doing in awhile. You're also going to miss a time or two, run out of mana at a bad time and find yourself trying to figure out just what went wrong. Even experienced healers are going to have to dig their heels in a bit.

That said, we're keeping an eye out for how healing is going and should we feel there need to be adjustments, we'll make them. As many have noticed, we're starting to get a larger population of level 85 players who will be running through the content and getting better gear to compliment their spells and abilities. That should help some.


The healing changes actually have me using fewer spells. Rejuv and regrowth hardly ever see action now due to the extreme mana costs.

I also have yet to see any fight that requires a good amount of dps. Most bosses are still dead in 1-2 minutes. Heroics certainly got a lot harder for healers, but the only dps change I've seen is casting a cc ability once per pull.


Rejuv should be kept on the tank as it is very efficient and steady (also useful on lowest health person during aoe to pop swiftmend + efflorescence).

Regrowth is the best use of clearcasting procs if you need to bump up your HPS.

There, now you can use every heal =D

*edit* for credibility, I've 2 healed the new VoA fight and have healed several days of omnotron attempts without any trouble. I use every heal in the book
Edited by Gorignac on 12/13/2010 11:05 AM PST
85 Orc Warrior
3220
12/13/2010 10:34 AMPosted by Nethaera
It's definitely challenging to heal in Cataclysm and that's by design. We want players to pick and choose what spells to use and when. Those in your group will also need to be conscious of whether or not they're putting out enough DPS, taking too much damage, and more. You'll probably be pulling out more "tricks" from your bag than you've been doing in awhile. You're also going to miss a time or two, run out of mana at a bad time and find yourself trying to figure out just what went wrong. Even experienced healers are going to have to dig their heels in a bit.

That said, we're keeping an eye out for how healing is going and should we feel there need to be adjustments, we'll make them. As many have noticed, we're starting to get a larger population of level 85 players who will be running through the content and getting better gear to compliment their spells and abilities. That should help some.

10/10
90 Human Paladin
9475
12/13/2010 10:56 AMPosted by Mxahan
12/13/2010 10:54 AMPosted by Shøul
[quote="14060006928"]10-15 percent of max health on a heal that takes an 8th of your total mana?

That is off in my book.

I'm not asking for a spell that heals people to full health.

But a healing spell that takes that much mana should probably heal more in the range of 30-40 percent of a person's max health, otherwise there's no point in using it when you could instead use 'heal' 3 times for less mana and more health.


here's how it works:

druid: expensive powerful heal... clearcasting proc = free cast with cast time? OMG is that a coincidence? NO! I use an expensive heal every single time I get a clearcasting proc, why? because it's FREE! I haven't played my shaman or priest since cata, but I'm sure they have similar ways of conserving mana.


Not every healer is a druid and not every healer has clearcasting.[/quote]

All healers have a process for being more mana-efficient, and from what I've heard druids have the toughest time of it. For holy paladins, we're now more dependent on using holy power to cast mana-efficient heals. I try to spam Holy Light and Holy Shock when possible, and after 3 points in holy power I cast a Word of Glory(or a Light of Dawn if the situation presents itself). Keeping this rotation, I can heal for quite awhile without needing to rely on Flash of Light or Divine Light, though both still get used occasionally.

With the stamina that players have now, players don't need to be immediately topped off. What needs to happen is keeping mana-efficient rotations going on as long as possible. When the party starts to ease into the red, that's when it's good to burn a cooldown or two and cast some bigger heals, but only just enough to keep the party safe. After a particularly brutal ability by a boss, you often have a long enough opportunity to get the party healed up using your mana-efficient rotation.
85 Gnome Warlock
10100
12/13/2010 10:52 AMPosted by Thasea
I've been healing a while. It's been a blast.

I run low on mana a LOT. And drinking every pull on a difficult heroic is a bit tedious. But other then the excessive drinking I like what I'm seeing.

If pulled properly we can sometimes go 2 or 3 groups of mobs before I have to drink now in a heroic. And I did a normal mode last night where I barely drank at all.

I love the new boss mechanics, there are a few my guild group hasn't been able to take down yet. I imagine that's because we are missing a mechanic or two... and we still need a couple of our members to get out of the sub 300 greens they are wearing.


Serious Suggestion: reforge your gear for more spirit. Unless Armory doesn't show reforging, looks like you haven't done any of your gear yet. It's surprisingly cheap to reforge (like 5g avg per piece) and you could have a lot more spirit instead of say mastery.

Reforging is pretty necessary as well at this point to make things easier.
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