Healers taking the brunt of the Cataclysm

90 Worgen Druid
3710
12/13/2010 10:56 AMPosted by Mxahan
12/13/2010 10:54 AMPosted by Shøul

here's how it works:

druid: expensive powerful heal... clearcasting proc = free cast with cast time? OMG is that a coincidence? NO! I use an expensive heal every single time I get a clearcasting proc, why? because it's FREE! I haven't played my shaman or priest since cata, but I'm sure they have similar ways of conserving mana.


Not every healer is a druid and not every healer has clearcasting.


So what class is your healer? I'm sure there's a mechanic for mana efficiency.
Edited by Shøul on 12/13/2010 11:08 AM PST
100 Gnome Warlock
12550
In all honesty, I've stopped levelling both my healers (priest and pally). I may go back to them in a few weeks, but for right now, healing is thankless, stressful and no fun.

It's mainly due to the fact that tanks and DPS are very slow to adjust to the new normal. I'm still seeing tanks with their 120k health pool thinking they're still playing Wrath. They rush in, grab 2 groups and I'm supposed to keep them alive. When I don't and we wipe, I get told that I suck and then get vote-kicked.

When I do get a tank with a clue, it's slightly better, but the OOM issues are incredibly frustrating. It just feels like there's no room for error whatsoever. And that, to me anyway, is not fun in the least. I can see how the Wrath paradigm needed to be adjusted (it really was a no-brainer), but I think the pendulum swung too far in the other direction.

Bottom line - my healers will remain on the shelf until things are loosened up a bit. I suspect a LOT of other healers are doing the same thing cuz the DPS queues on my realm group are skyrocketing. Unintended consequences?
100 Human Paladin
16955
I'm having a great time. At first I found myself drinking after every pull, but my gear is starting to get to the point where I don't drink as often in heroics. The mages run out of their cakes faster than I do, and we still have pullhappy tanks. If you use the right abilities, its fairly easy to manage your mana.

Don't lower the challenge, rise to meet it.
85 Human Priest
7480
12/13/2010 10:34 AMPosted by Nethaera
Those in your group will also need to be conscious of whether or not they're putting out enough DPS, taking too much damage, and more.

Thank you for this ^^. I think it's great for the game in the long run.

12/13/2010 10:34 AMPosted by Nethaera
That said, we're keeping an eye out for how healing is going and should we feel there need to be adjustments, we'll make them. As many have noticed, we're starting to get a larger population of level 85 players who will be running through the content and getting better gear to compliment their spells and abilities. That should help some.

I know the forums are awash in healer QQ, but please do give your new design a chance to succeed before considering changes. We've barely begun to see how it will work at higher gear levels and so far it's looking good to me. Stay strong Blizz!
85 Tauren Druid
6090
12/13/2010 10:55 AMPosted by Jotch
The only concern I have, is that all the weight of group maintenance is being pushed back to the healer once more. We have the greatest responsibility now. If the game were designed well, each role should have an equal representation of responsibility in an encounter.


I disagree with that.

There's a lot more unforgiving mechanics in Cataclysm than before. The dps are more often than not getting one-shotted for their own mistakes and no healer is going to be able to save them.

Responsibility is getting spread to everyone in the group to maintain damage to a minimum so that healers can do their jobs.

It use to be that a healer could overcome a group's stupidity by sheer healing throughput. Now the group's survivability is no longer the responsibility of one person because it is no longer possible for one person to stop all the damage.
Edited by Bifrons on 12/13/2010 11:10 AM PST
90 Worgen Druid
3710
12/13/2010 11:08 AMPosted by Marudas


Don't lower the challenge, rise to meet it.


THIS!
36 Worgen Warrior
160
12/13/2010 11:06 AMPosted by Kurnea
12/13/2010 10:56 AMPosted by Mxahan
[quote="14063605387"][quote="14060006928"]10-15 percent of max health on a heal that takes an 8th of your total mana?

That is off in my book.

I'm not asking for a spell that heals people to full health.

But a healing spell that takes that much mana should probably heal more in the range of 30-40 percent of a person's max health, otherwise there's no point in using it when you could instead use 'heal' 3 times for less mana and more health.


here's how it works:

druid: expensive powerful heal... clearcasting proc = free cast with cast time? OMG is that a coincidence? NO! I use an expensive heal every single time I get a clearcasting proc, why? because it's FREE! I haven't played my shaman or priest since cata, but I'm sure they have similar ways of conserving mana.


Not every healer is a druid and not every healer has clearcasting.[/quote]

All healers have a process for being more mana-efficient, and from what I've heard druids have the toughest time of it. For holy paladins, we're now more dependent on using holy power to cast mana-efficient heals. I try to spam Holy Light and Holy Shock when possible, and after 3 points in holy power I cast a Word of Glory(or a Light of Dawn if the situation presents itself). Keeping this rotation, I can heal for quite awhile without needing to rely on Flash of Light or Divine Light, though both still get used occasionally.

With the stamina that players have now, players don't need to be immediately topped off. What needs to happen is keeping mana-efficient rotations going on as long as possible. When the party starts to ease into the red, that's when it's good to burn a cooldown or two and cast some bigger heals, but only just enough to keep the party safe. After a particularly brutal ability by a boss, you often have a long enough opportunity to get the party healed up using your mana-efficient rotation.[/quote]

This isn't my point.

I can heal, i can get through the heroics.

The problem is when you look at it from a mathematical standpoint, people don't take damage as fast as they used to. This allows us to use our slower casting spells with more leniency. Our generic 'middle' heal is a long-er cast time, so it's not so bad to use it.

Why waste mana using one big heal, when we have the time to cast our 'middle' heal 3 times for more health and use less mana in the process, it seems to go against what blizzard was trying to do.
90 Worgen Druid
3710
12/13/2010 11:10 AMPosted by Vir


The difference in Vanilla is that bad players wouldn't get groups after a few failures. Either guilds would decide not to pug with them, or someone would post on the forums about how bad they were. This would force them to prove they got better to get into groups. With the dungeon finder, server transfers, etc bad players can just keep finding groups and just blame the tank or healer when the group wipes.


You're not being held back from organizing in-server groups. If you are doing random dungeons with 100% PUGs and complain they're bad, you're being lazy and deserve bad groups. If you want GOOD groups, ORGANIZE IT! you'll coast through randoms as a group of 5.
100 Troll Priest
14935
12/13/2010 10:34 AMPosted by Nethaera
It's definitely challenging to heal in Cataclysm and that's by design. We want players to pick and choose what spells to use and when. Those in your group will also need to be conscious of whether or not they're putting out enough DPS, taking too much damage, and more. You'll probably be pulling out more "tricks" from your bag than you've been doing in awhile. You're also going to miss a time or two, run out of mana at a bad time and find yourself trying to figure out just what went wrong. Even experienced healers are going to have to dig their heels in a bit.

That said, we're keeping an eye out for how healing is going and should we feel there need to be adjustments, we'll make them. As many have noticed, we're starting to get a larger population of level 85 players who will be running through the content and getting better gear to compliment their spells and abilities. That should help some.




Challenge is a great thing, and it was largely missing from WotLK, especially in the 5 man game. Mana mattering also brought something back that was largely missing.


However, it doesn't change the fact that more often than not, we as healers feel the brunt of the group, even if the DPS stands in crap they shouldn't, or didn't handle something correctly a boss does, or hell, doesn't even have basic CC.


Having to manage my mana again is fun. Not being in control of the group anymore doesn't feel as much fun. I know this is why you guys made this change in the first place, but it's going to take some getting used to. Especially since it's harder to get gear to gear up as a healer in the first place because of bad/unvaried quest rewards, not enough faction reward gear, and a very messy profession system at the beginning of an expansion.


Right now, doing a pug heroic is impossible. This is fine if it's by design. It doesn't mean that it isn't frustrating as hell though to deal with.



You also need to really freaking tune the healing classes that exist a hell of a lot more. A holy paladin being able to practically jump into heroics day one without mana issues, while I still have them as a Discipline priest is horrendous design.
Edited by Meia on 12/13/2010 11:16 AM PST
100 Human Paladin
9550
Just adding my voice to those here that healing is quite fun and often challenging now but it is not broken. Mana becomes a major problem when:
  • Large packs are engaged with no CC

  • People ignore/mess up at fight mecahanics

Make sure you are using your full healing arsenal including cooldowns and don't panic. Healing is different now to be sure but the change is a lot of fun if you adapt to it.
Edited by Malodor on 12/13/2010 11:15 AM PST
85 Draenei Shaman
1740
Ive been playing since Vanilla Wow, Ive rolled Priest, Druid, and Pally heals for a long time and for the most part have enjoined most all of my experiences. I always wanted a Shaman and so i lvled one for the release of Cata and within 3 days after it released I grinded from 80-85 and qued for randoms only to find that my heals seem rather weak. Ive changed around some gear and read up on specs and stats but Nothing seems to really help. Chain heal seems to be a joke at this point in the game and even with Earth Shield, and Rip Tide staying up on my tanks I seem to have issues keeping them up and as for my DPS they get left to the side because I either find myself spamming heals on the tank or out of mana because of having to use Healing Surge here and there to keep ppl up. It is my personal opinion that the spells seem greatly under powered. After all there is no reason why my heals at lvl 85 with the outrageously high Item lvl should be just about as strong as they were at 80. And why is my greater heal 1/10th of my mana pool? Kind of expensive. I enjoy a challenge but this is a tad much imo.
85 Human Paladin
5180
I like the new things.

This char I run DPS/Tank/Holy. Holy and Prot are my main focus.

I've not done any heroics(obviously) but I can see the biggest issues being bad dps and bad tanks. Bad healers fall into there sometimes too.

Dps NEEDS to use their dmg avoidance/self healing abilites. Anytime they/you drop below 50%, pop whatever life saving CD you have... Don't "save them just in case" USE them.

Tanks, I cannot stress enough how much easier you make a run if you pay attention to the pulls and use your CD's effectively. Warriors definitely but even more so pallies. Pallies are spoiled, group dmg reduction, ardent defender, AND "shield wall". Bubble if you REALLY need it, ohh and DP > 3HoPo > WoG to save lives...

Healers think that saving everyone is THEIR job now. It's not. It's a group effort, and the sooner people realize that, the better.

Oh and INTERRUPT HEALERS FFS!!! >_> I hate having a rogue, mage and warrior and seeing heals going off constantly...
85 Blood Elf Warlock
7115
You're supposed to have a choice and yet more than half the time you are stuck spamming your crappy efficient heal. What kind of "choice" is that? And you realize the flash type heals are practically useless and not being used? What is the point of those spells? It's particularly bad for druids. Regrowth is a terrible heal. It's almost never worth it to use it.
Edited by Galatea on 12/13/2010 11:23 AM PST
90 Human Paladin
9475
12/13/2010 11:12 AMPosted by Mxahan
The problem is when you look at it from a mathematical standpoint, people don't take damage as fast as they used to. This allows us to use our slower casting spells with more leniency. Our generic 'middle' heal is a long-er cast time, so it's not so bad to use it.

Why waste mana using one big heal, when we have the time to cast our 'middle' heal 3 times for more health and use less mana in the process, it seems to go against what blizzard was trying to do.


You waste mana on one(or more than one) big heal because it takes less time to heal that amount of health. Ideally, it shouldn't be used, but I've run into a few situations where towards the end of the fight the tank was below 10% health and about to take more damage than my normal rotation can mitigate. Sometimes a holy shock, holy light, holy light, +word of glory just isn't enough. Sometimes it takes a Divine light, holy shock, holy light+word of glory to keep the fight going.

Now I admit I'm not the biggest WoW nerd and could be wrong with my thinking, maybe the math doesn't support me. But as I've been figuring out my healing rotation, there have definitely been times when my gut just screams "Divine Light on that guy, right now, or you could wipe."
Edited by Kurnea on 12/13/2010 11:23 AM PST
85 Tauren Paladin
6165
12/13/2010 11:08 AMPosted by Marudas
Don't lower the challenge, rise to meet it.


Well said. People complained about WotLK being too easy... Here's your challenge.

I am enjoying using several abilities that used to rot in my spellbook, for practically every pull to help out the group, especially as ret. Ret pallies have incredible potential to bring your group back from the brink of death right now. You can make a hell of a difference, whether it's stunning a mob(s), CCing something, hitting someone with salv, bubbling, bopping, or throwing a heal on someone who needs it, and it really feels good to know you're pulling your weight by doing something besides rocking the DPS meters. I've also used lay on hands more times this past week than I did through the entirety of Wrath. I welcome the new stress on awareness, teamwork, and focusing on survivability for not just yourself, but your entire group.

I look forward to seeing how my mana pool works when I have more epics, right now healing is a tough job, but people really seem to be beginning to appreciate that fact.
Edited by Brostoise on 12/13/2010 11:25 AM PST
100 Human Paladin
16955
People need to take off their Wrath goggles, sit down and look at what they're doing. You aren't going to be spamming your high cost abilities recklessly anymore, you're a surgeon. You use the right heal in the right place. Using your cheaper abilities as long as possible before it doesn't cut it is key to maintaining your mana. Some undergeared tanks in heroics with no CC going out will get wrecked, but under -reasonable- circumstances, your tank has 130,000hp and I've yet to see a boss that regularly hits for much more than 15-20k tops. Coupled with your tanks avoidance, you don't have to throttle your mana out onto the tank for fear of him getting two shot.

The biggest thing is not what the healers can do though, its what the rest of your group can do. Embrace the power of CC and interrupts. You're talking about fresh level 85s in new content with mostly inadequte gear, chainpulling whole groups will, and SHOULD kill you.

Man (or woman) up and throw down my friends. This is not the Ninja Gaiden of MMO's.
85 Draenei Shaman
5450
12/13/2010 10:34 AMPosted by Nethaera
It's definitely challenging to heal in Cataclysm and that's by design. We want players to pick and choose what spells to use and when. Those in your group will also need to be conscious of whether or not they're putting out enough DPS, taking too much damage, and more. You'll probably be pulling out more "tricks" from your bag than you've been doing in awhile. You're also going to miss a time or two, run out of mana at a bad time and find yourself trying to figure out just what went wrong. Even experienced healers are going to have to dig their heels in a bit.

That said, we're keeping an eye out for how healing is going and should we feel there need to be adjustments, we'll make them. As many have noticed, we're starting to get a larger population of level 85 players who will be running through the content and getting better gear to compliment their spells and abilities. That should help some.



So far I can say as a shaman I think you really hit your mark with the pick-and-choose your spell, and I want to say it's made healing a lot of fun (and I loathed healing through WoTLK cause it just involved me keeping up Earth Shield and spamming chain heal).

I have to decide when the shock, when the unleash weapon, when to riptide, and how to stack my bonuses/group heals to get the most bang for my mana-buck. I have had way more fun healing than DPS'ing so far in dungeons.

I haven't been in heroics yet, but my guess is that the mob damage might be slightly too 'bursty'. I say this because this is the only time I've had the pick-and-choose model break down in regular dungeons. The tank gets smacked for 50% HP (while they are hovering around 50%) and it all breaks down. You have no choice but to spam your flash heal cause you can't waste any GCDs on things that aren't going to get HP rebounding fast (unleash weapon for example).

Now, if the bursty-dmg was followed by a time at which low-rolling group damage takes effect that gives the healers time to pick-and-choose, but if it's not then your group is in trouble. That's a fine line though, as I am sure you can appreciate, because you want that pressure on the healer to pick-and-choose wisely, but you can't give them too much breathing room or it falls back into the WoTLK tedium.

Besides that, there is probably a lot dps/tanks aren't doing that they should be, because they're use to not dying while pulling max dps all the time from WoTLK.

Anyway, great job with healing so far. I've actually be shying away from my DPS spec in dungeons cause healing has been so much fun so far *thumbs up*
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