Healers taking the brunt of the Cataclysm

85 Goblin Warrior
0
It really is fine. A little gear makes a HUGE difference, as does having people that have experience with the fights. Our Heroics runs the first night, and the second night, were like night and day. The first night we wiped like jerks, I was sitting at 10-20% health more often than I'd like to remember and bosses took forever to die. The next night, we took less stupid damage, we learned how to mitigate damage better (Heroic Leap is the unsung hero of tanking oh-#%!# buttons), our DPS got more comfortable conserving their mana, we learned what we should, and don't need to use our CC on and a dozen other things that are a part of the learning process that makes your 2nd kill feel a hundred times easier than your first.

Its like raiding on a much smaller-scale and its absolutely awesome.
85 Tauren Druid
6090
12/13/2010 10:34 AMPosted by Nethaera
It's definitely challenging to heal in Cataclysm and that's by design. We want players to pick and choose what spells to use and when. Those in your group will also need to be conscious of whether or not they're putting out enough DPS, taking too much damage, and more. You'll probably be pulling out more "tricks" from your bag than you've been doing in awhile. You're also going to miss a time or two, run out of mana at a bad time and find yourself trying to figure out just what went wrong. Even experienced healers are going to have to dig their heels in a bit.

That said, we're keeping an eye out for how healing is going and should we feel there need to be adjustments, we'll make them. As many have noticed, we're starting to get a larger population of level 85 players who will be running through the content and getting better gear to compliment their spells and abilities. That should help some.


I like the new direction. Things could use some minor tweaks here and there but nothing that requires a major overhaul.

Challenge is a good thing and it's only been a week in so far.
85 Draenei Priest
6210
I definitely do think that healers are feeling the brunt of cataclysm because they decided to actually make healing hard again. DPS is the same as always, dont stand in fire, kill the mob (granted mana using dps have been having problems too, this also just requires a little play tweeking by the player). Tanking is still not a huge deal so long as the tank can actually see when mobs arent attacking him.

Healing, however, is very different. In WotLK, Bad healers could totally heal hard raid because mana was infinite. Most classes could spam their fastest heals and never oom. Now, you can tell who the intelligent healers are. Smart healers can clear multiple trash pulls on a 65k mana pool, whereas bad healers will oom on one trash pull with 80k mana pools.

Learn how to heal right, paladin is one of the most over powered healers at the moment.
30 Orc Hunter
8750
How come healers are the only role that have a challenge/hard time with? How come blizz can't make DPS or Tanks roles challenging/headache? Healers have the only challenging role, tank? All you gotta do is make sure the mobs are on you who cares, DPS? Hah, mindless DPS, they can auto-attack and go afk watching youtube videos.

Edit: It seems like blizzard is punishing healers this expansion.
Edited by Zoemg on 12/13/2010 11:28 AM PST
36 Worgen Warrior
160
12/13/2010 11:23 AMPosted by Kurnea
12/13/2010 11:12 AMPosted by Mxahan
The problem is when you look at it from a mathematical standpoint, people don't take damage as fast as they used to. This allows us to use our slower casting spells with more leniency. Our generic 'middle' heal is a long-er cast time, so it's not so bad to use it.

Why waste mana using one big heal, when we have the time to cast our 'middle' heal 3 times for more health and use less mana in the process, it seems to go against what blizzard was trying to do.


You waste mana on one(or more than one) big heal because it takes less time to heal that amount of health. Ideally, it shouldn't be used, but I've run into a few situations where towards the end of the fight the tank was below 10% health and about to take more damage than my normal rotation can mitigate. Sometimes a holy shock, holy light, holy light, +word of glory just isn't enough. Sometimes it takes a Divine light, holy shock, holy light+word of glory to keep the fight going.

Now I admit I'm not the biggest WoW nerd and could be wrong with my thinking, maybe the math doesn't support me. But as I've been figuring out my healing rotation, there have definitely been times when my gut just screams "Divine Light on that guy, right now, or you could wipe."


This is a very good step in the right direction, and Cata is definitely 'better' than WotLK healing.

However, those situations don't come up very often, this leads to us not using those other spells most of the time.

I would like to be able to use my aoe heals and feel like they made a difference.

I would like to be able to use a big healing spell in more than an emergency situation, considering how fricking big the health pools are now.
85 Goblin Priest
8270
Blizzard just gave us the roll of babysitting.. "get out of fire, cc skull target, stop pulling from the tank, I'm oom don't pull" you get the idea.
85 Human Mage
3765
12/13/2010 11:26 AMPosted by Zoemg
How come healers are the only role that have a challenge/hard time with? How come blizz can't make DPS or Tanks roles challenging/headache? Healers have the only challenging role, tank? All you gotta do is make sure the mobs are on you who cares, DPS? Hah, mindless DPS, they can auto-attack and go afk watching youtube videos.


I am guessing you have not actually played the Cata dungeons if you don't think tanks and dps have a challenging time now. No one is auto attacking and watching you tube and coming back alive in them. I did have one person try it the other day though.
90 Draenei Paladin
5590
I can't speak for everyone else but i have had some simply amazing healers in my heroics the last few days, they seem to be doing alright because they adapted and play very smart. Besides, its pretty continuous of BC, it shouldn't be such a burden.
90 Human Paladin
15845
12/13/2010 11:26 AMPosted by Zoemg

Edit: It seems like blizzard is punishing healers this expansion.


Go fight Ozruk in heroic Stonecore.

Then apologize to your tank for not understanding his pain.
30 Orc Hunter
8750
12/13/2010 11:28 AMPosted by Brangar
12/13/2010 11:26 AMPosted by Zoemg
How come healers are the only role that have a challenge/hard time with? How come blizz can't make DPS or Tanks roles challenging/headache? Healers have the only challenging role, tank? All you gotta do is make sure the mobs are on you who cares, DPS? Hah, mindless DPS, they can auto-attack and go afk watching youtube videos.


I am guessing you have not actually played the Cata dungeons if you don't think tanks and dps have a challenging time now. No one is auto attacking and watching you tube and coming back alive in them. I did have one person try it the other day though.


You're pathetic if you think DPS have a challenging role. I'm a tank btw.
90 Human Paladin
9475
12/13/2010 11:26 AMPosted by Zoemg
How come healers are the only role that have a challenge/hard time with? How come blizz can't make DPS or Tanks roles challenging/headache?


I don't think you understand that damage mitigation is the responsibility of the entire party. The essential goal is simple: Kill them before they kill you. And everyone has an important role in this. With healers, it's balancing mana-efficiency versus keeping people topped off. With tanks, it's keeping agro and taking less damage when possible. With dps, it's a combination of cc along with burning the right order of mobs down as fast as possible, while also using interrupts when needed.

When I go out of mana and am fairly sure I did my best, I ask the party what they could do to take less damage. Are they keeping out of fire? Are they using the right boss strategies? Is there a major aoe spell that needs to be interrupted? Is there a caster who summons mobs that needs to be crowd controlled or burned down fast? All of these are things that dps and tanks can do to help mitigate damage.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
8995
Please don't change things yet. This change is better for the game as a whole. Healing shouldn't be made easier just because some lousy dps and tanks yell at their healer. It has huge repercussions for the whole game.
85 Goblin Warrior
0
12/13/2010 11:31 AMPosted by Zoemg
12/13/2010 11:28 AMPosted by Brangar


I am guessing you have not actually played the Cata dungeons if you don't think tanks and dps have a challenging time now. No one is auto attacking and watching you tube and coming back alive in them. I did have one person try it the other day though.


You're pathetic if you think DPS have a challenging role. I'm a tank btw.


I play Prot mostly, but I've done quite a few heroics as Arms.

Its surprisingly hard to fulfill your role of 'kill that dude quicker' when you have little to no self-healing and they threw in an absolute crapton of anti-melee abilities all over the place (probably to make up for the fact that the ranged DPS are often running OOM very fast).

DPS have always had it easier than the other two roles, but its still nowhere near as pitifully easy as it was in Wrath.
Edited by Bibdi on 12/13/2010 11:36 AM PST
85 Undead Warlock
6455
Those of you complaining I checked your gear and you all have 5+ pieces of dps gear.
that translates into 1000+ spirit you don't have. Learn to gear your character properly before complaing. I see it more and more frequently that boomkins think they can dual spec healer and there just gonna be fine. Your not gonna be fine, your gonna kicked from group.
These not a heroic that isnt completable with random dungeon finder if your geared correctly.
85 Night Elf Druid
4275




12/13/2010 10:34 AMPosted by Nethaera
It's definitely challenging to heal in Cataclysm and that's by design. We want players to pick and choose what spells to use and when. Those in your group will also need to be conscious of whether or not they're putting out enough DPS, taking too much damage, and more. You'll probably be pulling out more "tricks" from your bag than you've been doing in awhile. You're also going to miss a time or two, run out of mana at a bad time and find yourself trying to figure out just what went wrong. Even experienced healers are going to have to dig their heels in a bit.

That said, we're keeping an eye out for how healing is going and should we feel there need to be adjustments, we'll make them. As many have noticed, we're starting to get a larger population of level 85 players who will be running through the content and getting better gear to compliment their spells and abilities. That should help some.


I see your point, but I just want to understand your view of challenge and fun. I swear I am not being sarcastic, thats a genuine question, but, the times I was healing a 85 dungeon successfully I ended up using lifebloom for the 3 stacks and then spamming nourish on tank with ocasional wild growth on group followed by more nourish spam.

So, I see and I really understand Blizzard's goal with challenge and the duty to choose wisely our healing spells and when to cast the right one, but right now I really dont see it when all I do is basically spam nourish on tank and occasionally spam nourish on dps after a wild growth or something like it.
85 Blood Elf Warrior
3410
OMG!!! Stop crying...
This new difficult is perfect, no more tank everything and AOE.
Please Blizzard, don't nerf anything, if you want to safe your mana ask to your group use some CC.
90 Human Paladin
9870
When people have more than 100k health, being 5-10k down is not a big deal because that's only a few percent of their total life. As a lot of people have said in the last 7 pages, the name of the game is mana efficiency and intelligent use of your spells.
85 Goblin Priest
11350
In my experience as a Disc Priest, I've seen the cause come from a few key areas:

1) The base mana is where all the extra mana has come from, which makes our spells more expensive. This is pretty natural at a new cap, but is pretty drastic right now. As we get epics and move up tiers, this will gradually decrease in impact, and only affects us right now.

2) CC is now strongly recommended, and every mob that stays free of CC is a bad thing.

3) Drinking is slow.

In recent heroics, I've seen a pretty strong impact on my mana - some fights I can come out down only a little, some drain me as low as 10-20%.

Here are my thoughts:
1) An argument could be made that spells being more expensive at the start and cheaper as new tiers appear gives you the illusion of growing more powerful, but the counter might be that spellpower and haste and crit already do that. Is it intended that expensive spells become more attractive as we progress in tiers? What happens when our mana regen is such that our cheap heal becomes a zero-sum (we regen the cost in the space of the cast), or even a positive gain? Will we just spam cheap heals with crazy output?

2) CC demands are a great thing, and I love to see it - I'm concerned about what happens when things aren't executed perfectly. All our CC tends to happen at the beginning of the fight currently, as any mob breaking free is then in AoE range of the tank, and generally can't be CCed again. We may need more "becomes immune to damage" CC cooldowns in order to effectively deal with the non-perfect scenarios... We'll see. In the meanwhile, any mob that breaks CC long enough to start getting hit then becomes a healer burden. By design, but a big reason for why we get drained.

3) Firstly, it's fantastic that regen now doubles the second we're out of combat, but even still, a lot of these pulls take us down to ~10% of our mana. We then drink, meaning that the DPS and tank sit and wait. With current mana pools, the drinks are filling us up, but over a 30-second window. Why? Even with our own regen, we generally have to sit and drink for 20-seconds to get filled up again, and unlike health, we DO have to be topped off. Add to that any time for re-filling DPS after the fight, and the result is that while they rush-wait-rush-wait-rush, we're constantly busy. This seems counterproductive.

Two Issues:

Problem: Making triage necessary was a positive move, and those of us already thus engaged find the transition relatively seamless. However, I predict that by the third tier of content, we'll be sufficiently stat-stacked to spam our cheapest heals constantly, thus defeating the goal. Hit scales by tier, but our other stats do not. We're starting out weak, and will likely end overpowered, resulting in the need for another "force diminish" debuff at the end, but this time targeted at healers. (Either that, or boss damage is going to go crazy, ending with another round of two-shotting tanks.)

Answer?: Stats scale based on character level, resulting in new 85s bearing the brunt of the cost of all tiers of raiding. While external stats (like Hit and Crit and Attack and Defense) can be countered by increasing power of enemies, internal stats (Spirit, Mana, base cost) are largely linear, and do not. There needs to be a mechanic to make these scale effectively without artificial demands, to avoid the over-under situation.

Problem: Recovering after a fight is largely placed on the healer. Resurrecting the dead, topping off the party, and rebuffing take time, then recovering mana takes more time.

Answer: While buffing and resurrection still fall largely to the healer, the rest of the party needs to consider their health their responsibility, when out of combat. By placing this burden on them, to eat while you drink, the recovery time is reduced, and the rest of the party knows they have a responsibility equal to that of the healer. This is a significant mindshift, as eating has largely been reserved for soloing by classes that can't self-heal, and hasn't had a place in group play for a LONG time... And it hasn't been discussed. It would help to have a "training" communication from Blizzard, but in lieu of that, we may need to be the educators, short-term. Share food with same-server group members and tell them to eat it, and try to obtain/offer conjured food in cross-server groups. The benefits should be self-evident, and with luck, we can correct this portion of the pain, all on our own.

TLDR:
    Mana is going to be most painful right now, and will largely be back to Wrath situations by the last tier of raiding - we can wait it out.

    Have your group drink to recover health between fights, so they have something to do while waiting for your mana.
90 Draenei Death Knight
0
People seem to be adapting. The first thing to learn is that it's not your job as a healer to keep everyone topped off anymore. Especially don't top off us DKs as our self healing is now an integral part of our overall longevity.

Though please fix Priests already. They are horribly broken. It's absolutely not the players in this case.
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