Will a mastery change fix ret?

85 Human Paladin
1990
Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
Mastery is a new stat for us, and while it's working great for some talent specs, we'll almost certainly have to tweak it for others in a future patch (Unholy and Retribution come to mind, because their masteries currently affect sources of damage that just aren't large enough to be competitive).


So it's true, even GC admits that our mastery isn't up-to-par with other talents. What kind of mastery changes do you guys think will make ret more competitive?
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85 Tauren Paladin
0
I actually like our current one... Though I only ever seem to use the procs to use Zealotry and Inquisition, maybe it could integrate one of those somehow?
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10 Gnome Rogue
50
the current weak mastery is ret's biggest issue right now.

a mastery that made mastery a decent stat would bring ret back into line with other dps specs.


before it was +holy damage but that combined with inq made exorcism overshadow TV which was declared unacceptable. Ret has been under-performing since that change.


I don't have any really good ideas for a ret mastery and I haven't seen any purposed, so it may take some time before it gets resolved. But it's good to have confirmation that it will be resolved.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
13855
The problem is that we probably have the most fun mastery of any DPS. But also the worst scaling stat.

I want to keep HoL in some form. But it can never work with the mastery stat because it is limited by eating a GCD and only replacing a spell you would have hit anyway with TV rather than having a brand new damage source.

The fixes would seem to be either moving HoL off the GCD, so the TV you get from it is 100% free although that would require a fix to zealotry as it wouldn't work with an off GCD HoL.

Failing that, and whether or not they just make HoL a talent then the options are:

1) holy damage buff
This clashes with inq and will cause more issues with exo.

2) total damage buff
Seems logical

3) Proc or DoT
Is an equally viable fix. I just have the personal issue that we already have a ton of passive damage going on, personally I would rather gain from mastery from the button I press hitting harder, rather than recount just telling me that mastery did XX% of my DPS through a passive buff. But that is possibly just me. Although we do already have seals and censure for passive DoT and procs.

Those are ways to fix mastery within the current ret build. To me the most logical stop gap fix to ret is simply to make inq the mastery, HoL the 31 pointer and zealotry the level 81 spell.
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85 Human Paladin
1990
12/13/2010 11:32 AMPosted by Zamm
Those are ways to fix mastery within the current ret build. To me the most logical stop gap fix to ret is simply to make inq the mastery, HoL the 31 pointer and zealotry the level 81 spell.

This is most logical. Except zealotry would have to changed for Holy.

Very good suggestion.
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85 Human Paladin
1990
12/13/2010 11:36 AMPosted by Vir
HoL = Damage Buff.
Inquisition = Haste Buff.

This would be pretty boring, but it would be a quick fix. Because of how haste works with crusader strike, keeping Inquisition up would be important. Mastery as a damage buff would just bring us in line with other dps classes.
I agree that our mastery has to be a dmg buff. Making Inquisition a haste buff however will allow Holy specs to get 50% haste with Divine Favor.
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85 Human Paladin
2130
I posted my ideas here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1406728239


1) Works as it does for Word of Glory and Inquisition. However, the next Templar's Verdict that is cast hits twice or some damage is converted to holy damage. (Controllable, gives Paladins burst, and doesn't interfere with the GCD. Let it stack up to 3 times.)

2) Turn it to the old Seal of Command. A chance to deal a percentage of weapon damage as holy damage. (Ties right in with Inquisition too. No need to mess with GCD, but the damage should offset the loss of a free full TV or WoG or Inq.)

3) Immediately cast TV at full Holy Power. (Uncontrolled, works within current system, but lacks the WoG/Inq tie-in.)
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90 Dwarf Paladin
13855
12/13/2010 11:40 AMPosted by Yuee
12/13/2010 11:32 AMPosted by Zamm
Those are ways to fix mastery within the current ret build. To me the most logical stop gap fix to ret is simply to make inq the mastery, HoL the 31 pointer and zealotry the level 81 spell.

This is most logical. Except zealotry would have to changed for Holy.

Very good suggestion.


Could it just work off all HoPo generating spells, just add holy shock to the list (and whatever the other prot one is).


That would seem to be the only thing that needs testing. And inq is pretty much worthless for prot and holy as it stands anyway. TBH do those things (and revert to 3s CS SoB) and ret is fixed for PvE simply by juggling some existing spells a little.
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85 Dwarf Paladin
8460
GC's wording of "tweak" leads me to think they're just going to make numerical adjustments

Now zealotry I think they should just change completely. Give us a 31 point talent that "completes" the spec, which has synergy with the rest of the tree/abilities instead of clashing with DP/HoL.
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I dislike the idea of having Inquistion changed into haste so that mastery could affect damage. What would happen when the 85 raid gear has enough haste on it to reforge out of it, and still maintain a 3 sec gcd cs? You remove inquisition completely from ret rotation and then its trading one useless abilitiy for another.

The only thing I thought of for a scaling, somewhat balanced for pvp and pve thing I can think of to fix mastery is have it changed to a passive bonus, that affects the bottom and top end crit damage of TV / WoG. Threat in the beginning of a fight could be dangerous if you get chain procs so I'd like to see a better solution...
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
10015
12/13/2010 11:32 AMPosted by Zamm
Those are ways to fix mastery within the current ret build. To me the most logical stop gap fix to ret is simply to make inq the mastery, HoL the 31 pointer and zealotry the level 81 spell.


This would not work. Hand of Light and Zealotry work at cross purposes. The better your hand of light chance gets, the weaker zealotry gets. At a certain point, zealotry would actaully become a dps loss were you to use it and start working extra crusader strikes into your rotation (which of course you wouldn't do, but you get the idea).
Edited by Carmie on 12/13/2010 1:39 PM PST
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85 Human Paladin
1990
But if HoL was a talent, it'd be a static % and wouldn't affect it so much.
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