Healers will soon be the "rare" spec

90 Night Elf Druid
11435
Did some more healing since I last posted. Three groups, two failures, all in stonecore. In the first failure, the tank had barely 50k health and never used cooldowns. After three wipes on trash sans CC, he vote-kicked me because I couldn't keep him alive. Second failure was with a feral druid tank that again, had only 60k health and when I said "I need you to CC in here, or I will get overwhelmed." he told me that the instance was easy and I should suck it up. Then he pulled the third trash wave pull while I was drinking and died in 4 seconds, and I left willingly.

Final group was with a prot paladin with well over 120k health at level 85 who had no problems at all, with a group that used both mage and hunter CC, and the that went out of their way to interrupt Earth Conjurers (the ones that turn into giant elementals). We were done the 2nd boss in in the same time it took the first two groups to get to the first boss.

The lesson here is that, I think, the new dungeons require everyone to be on the ball. You can't just be a DPS and derp around anymore, or you can and will wipe the party. I'm not sure if this is a good or a bad thing, but like I said before I am not touching the LFG system for heroics unless its a mostly guild group, I think.
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85 Troll Druid
2360

12/10/2010 6:21 AMPosted by Kressilac
I guess I've had good groups. Save for the first group in Tides where I came into the group midstream, had never seen the instance before and the group disbanded after the first wipe on the first boss. *shrug*

Second group I was in had a couple wipes, new tank and me giving it my second try to get the first boss down. Wiped once, group stuck together, we got her down. Rest of the instance went smoothly and I wasn't blamed for stupid stuff happening. We were all learning.

That said, If Blackrock is your first instance, Tides will wake you up. Blackrock is no harder to heal than a heroic ICC 5 man. Tides on the other hand is much harder. The trash hits as hard as Blackrock's bosses and there's much more deadly stupid on the ground that DPS can stand in.

My advice, keep you and the tank up. If DPS isn't getting out of the stupid let them die.


Well you are still a lower level, I had no problem with normal instances except Grim Batol when I was 84 and Lost city.

But on heroics those are giving me nightmares.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
7755
I expect either Blizzard is going to make some significant changes soon, or PuGs will simply die a painful death.

In my mind the best innovation Blizzard ever put in was random LFD. I have given it credit for that many times. I have always run many PuGs, not because of any need, but simply to meet others and hopefully, help others.

But now there is EVERY reason not to PuG, ever, unless you just have to do so. And fortunately, I do not. Nor, I expect, do other long time pve raiding healers. When I and others withdraw from the randoms, the consequences may be what Blizzard wants. But I doubt it. Those large numbers of customers playing dps may be given a lot of perks, but they are not going to be able to do instances without a good healer.

And good healers will be able to do it all in guild. The reasons not to PuG are many, and the only reason to PuG is extra JPs. And any good pve raiding healer is not going to need JPs from PuGs.

Once healers get into the habit of only doing guild runs, things are not going to be good for PuGs. And putting that genie back into the bottle will be interesting I expect for Blizzard. I am sure Blizzard does not hate healers. But it has been unfair to healers imo, by simply putting too much on their already bowed backs.

The good healers will survive. The same cannot be said for PuGs and random LFD.
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85 Undead Priest
2790
The OP speaks truth. I was a disc priest, but am now full shadow. No plans on revisiting the broken spec. There's no incentive to be the healer. It's frustrating, boring, less fun, and you feel so underpowered compared to DPS classes.

And to me that's the straw that broke the camel's back. You feel soooo weak as a healer. Our biggest, most powerful healing spells barely move a tank's health bar. It feel like I'm still level 80 healing 85's.

And it's not simply the ineffectiveness of our healing spells. It's their inefficiency as well. We go OOM way to quickly, since we don't have a large enough mana pool, and our spells are way too costly. We used to have a comparable health/mana pool, in that each pool was relatively the same size. Now our mana pool is about half of our health pool, and yet our spells still cost more.

Hence, I'm now shadow. The next time I login, I'm respeccing my offspec (disc) to a PvP shadow build, so I can separate myself further from this broken spec.
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85 Draenei Paladin
2755
I agree. I have not healed much content yet but I already see the old healer blame cropping up. I however want NO nerfs to content, just some other way of addressing to non-healers that they might have more responsibility than pressing attack buttons. C'mon Blizz get your best people on it stat.
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85 Human Paladin
4475
12/10/2010 10:06 AMPosted by Kura
Did some more healing since I last posted. Three groups, two failures, all in stonecore. In the first failure, the tank had barely 50k health and never used cooldowns. After three wipes on trash sans CC, he vote-kicked me because I couldn't keep him alive. Second failure was with a feral druid tank that again, had only 60k health and when I said "I need you to CC in here, or I will get overwhelmed." he told me that the instance was easy and I should suck it up. Then he pulled the third trash wave pull while I was drinking and died in 4 seconds, and I left willingly.

Final group was with a prot paladin with well over 120k health at level 85 who had no problems at all, with a group that used both mage and hunter CC, and the that went out of their way to interrupt Earth Conjurers (the ones that turn into giant elementals). We were done the 2nd boss in in the same time it took the first two groups to get to the first boss.

The lesson here is that, I think, the new dungeons require everyone to be on the ball. You can't just be a DPS and derp around anymore, or you can and will wipe the party. I'm not sure if this is a good or a bad thing, but like I said before I am not touching the LFG system for heroics unless its a mostly guild group, I think.


It just feels much more rewarding for the entire group when everyone pitched in to finish the instance than the normal tank + spank and healer blanket heals everyone encounter.
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85 Human Priest
4385
12/09/2010 10:47 PMPosted by Amoy
-In a perfect world-
dps would not stand in the stupid,
they'd cc,
tanks would wait for healers to drink,
tanks would not chain pull or over pull,
the group would recognize the real cause for wiping and address it,
without blaming the healer who did nothing wrong

^^this will never happen

healers should be able to cover some small mistakes made in groups
there is currently no breathing room


/agree

Sadly, it was easy to see this coming. Healing in vanilla WoW was very much like this. Because of limited mana pools and poor combat mana regen, effective healers had a priority system that often involved dps not getting heals. This was necessary if one wasn't going to be OOM halfway through the fight. DPS understood this (or they were dead a lot) and did silly things like watch their threat, use health pots etc because they knew there was a good chance they weren't going to get a heal.

Flash forward to cataclysm. Mana pools are much larger but so is the damage being taken and combat mana regen is basically non-existent. This is/has brought the return of healers having to do what they did in vanilla WoW. The problem is that most tanks/dps and yes, healers, weren't around in vanilla WoW. All of their experience is with BC and WotLK where mana was very, very rarely an issue.

I think things will get better for both healers and the rest of the group but the learning curve is going to be steep. In the mean time healers will continue (out of ingnorance) to bear the brunt of the blame for wipes. The inevitable effect is going to be precisely what the OP is saying..............healers are about to become a much more rare commodity.
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85 Troll Shaman
7935
Oh poor you, did the internet hurt your feelings? You want me to talk to its mommy for you? :'(
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81 Goblin Shaman
1400
12/10/2010 10:50 AMPosted by Shylena
I expect either Blizzard is going to make some significant changes soon, or PuGs will simply die a painful death.
.


Or, pugs will become more like they were in BC, where they were game for wiping in the name of learning and knew how to mark and cc.
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90 Night Elf Druid
11085
12/10/2010 10:50 AMPosted by Shylena
I expect either Blizzard is going to make some significant changes soon, or PuGs will simply die a painful death.

In my mind the best innovation Blizzard ever put in was random LFD. I have given it credit for that many times. I have always run many PuGs, not because of any need, but simply to meet others and hopefully, help others.

But now there is EVERY reason not to PuG, ever, unless you just have to do so. And fortunately, I do not. Nor, I expect, do other long time pve raiding healers. When I and others withdraw from the randoms, the consequences may be what Blizzard wants. But I doubt it. Those large numbers of customers playing dps may be given a lot of perks, but they are not going to be able to do instances without a good healer.

And good healers will be able to do it all in guild. The reasons not to PuG are many, and the only reason to PuG is extra JPs. And any good pve raiding healer is not going to need JPs from PuGs.

Once healers get into the habit of only doing guild runs, things are not going to be good for PuGs. And putting that genie back into the bottle will be interesting I expect for Blizzard. I am sure Blizzard does not hate healers. But it has been unfair to healers imo, by simply putting too much on their already bowed backs.

The good healers will survive. The same cannot be said for PuGs and random LFD.


I hope no one just skimmed through this.

With the LFD system, I don't understand why everything expects the whole player base to perform like players from Paragon or Vokda? It's a PUG, you meet random people and you have -fun-. It shouldn't be more penalizing than 10 man raids.

If the elitist people wanted 'challenges', there are so many other outlets for them to get 'challenged' by, because god-forbid that the most accessible instances for the majority of the player base isn't as hard as Heroic Lich King. Things like 10/25 man raids/heroics are there for people to feel 'challenged' and stroke their epeen.

But hey, I want to play with my friends and have fun without sinking 1 hour 45 mins into a Heroic Deadmines run. Why is it that heroic dungeons are now as long as raid instances? I felt that 30 minute runs felt about just right, they were bite sized and not too draggy. Yes, I agree they could have been a little harder at the beginning of wrath, but right now it's just overkill.
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85 Orc Shaman
2870
Most of us that are posting i would say are from vanilla times... We all know, and are in the mindset of, 5 people make 1 group...

The tank keeps the mobs from hitting other people (Not rounds up everything he "thinks" he can handle)

The DPS focus fire on the tanks target and CC what isnt beneficial to kill at the time, or the group cant handle (Not impatiently wait to show off how high they can get there DPS)

The healer maintains a good influx of cost effective heals for the duration of the fight (not facerolls the keyboard while Alt+Tab'ed out watching hulu)

When people start understanding that these 3 parts make 1 machine and everyone has multiple duties, that may not be in the character description (Blow stuff up and get the lootz). Our stress will slowly melt away... But until that time Blizz needs to make every instance play a non-stop loop of the Benny Hill soundtrack!
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12/10/2010 2:48 PMPosted by Wheaux
But until that time Blizz needs to make every instance play a non-stop loop of the Benny Hill soundtrack!


Yes, they totally should. It'll be awesome. =D
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85 Human Priest
3360
So far, these are the points/thoughts I've compiled over the last few months. Learning what's coming in Cata and how people are acting/thinking in Wrath Heroics. (Which, by the way, is why I never minded running Normals if only to get away from Drama Llamas in Heroics. :P)
  • Remember/Learn what "CC" is, it may make a fight last longer, but it should help go a little smoother. Strategy!
  • LoS means "Line of Sight". LoS is useful. LoS also means I can't heal you. (See Also: "Out of Range".)
  • DPS should know what "Count to Five, Stay Alive" means.
  • Start bringing pots, food, and band-aids even to regular dungeons. No matter what.
  • On that note, go train First Aid and learn where your "Oh Crap!" Buttons are for your class.
  • Don't Stand in the Bad Stuff!
  • Heals can pull aggro. Try as we might, Healers can and will still get aggro. Especially on group pulls. So... help keep the mobs off us if you can? (Refer back to "CC" for this.)
  • All the Haste in the world still won't completely remove Cast Times. Mana is more precious than it was in Wrath. Be patient.
  • I don't mind taking a dungeon slow, and you probably shouldn't either. The slowness of a pug may be what keeps you alive.
  • Target the Tank. Type /focus . Type /assist . Shoot. As a Tank: Target the Healer, then type /focus . Take note of the little blue bar. When it's empty; or near empty; you should probably wait to pull that next group.
  • Stop trying to top the DPS Meter. That's so Wrath... I firmly believe that surviving an encounter is always better than whose e-peen is bigger. I feel that Recount should mostly be used to judge yourself, but more often than not, it's spammed with a "Hey, look! You guys suck, I'm on top". If you're up there, grats, if not, well.. your goal should always be to be above the Healer on the DPS Meter. Which should be a piece of cake if you don't get distracted by the shiny things near your computer for the entire of the dungeon. :P
  • If you wanna Tank, queue as Tank. If you wanna DPS, queue as Damage, if you wanna Heal, queue as Healer. But if you queue as both Tank and DPS, pay attention to what role you got. If you're on a class that can't queue as Tank, then remember that when you queue. I hope this doesn't continue throughout Cata. DPS who think they're Tanks wasn't fun in Wrath Heroics. I do not look forward to seeing more of it in Cata...


12/10/2010 2:48 PMPosted by Wheaux
But until that time Blizz needs to make every instance play a non-stop loop of the Benny Hill soundtrack!

/agree XD

Also, I didn't start playing WoW until TBC. But Kara used to take time, skill, and cooperation. You needed strategy and it still taught me all about what CC was, how it really helped on pulls, and what working as a Team can do. If you get a good group in in a PuG, feel especially lucky. I love running with at least two other people I know... We're guaranteed that if one of the other two fails miserably and gets us killed a lot due to stupidity, they will get the boot, or if they try to boot one of us, it'll fail. Security in a group can help you feel better overall, yes, but shouldn't mean you can just slack off altogether. It's always been a balancing act, it was just a lot easier when there was an endless mana pool and AoE Facerolling was the way to go. I don't think I'll miss the "Well I should probably just DPS some so I don't look bad back here" method of Healing. I didn't mind throwing a SW:P or maybe spending a minute to cast a Holy Fire on what the Tank is hitting... but I would much rather be Healing than being forced to DPS due to mechanics.

I don't think I'll get to the point I want to quit healing. Even in terribad groups, I've managed to do it... I want to see for myself just how "horrible" it is to heal in Cata, so I'm heading off to work on that... but it really helps to go into things with the right mindset. So... I've been preparing myself while I waited for my expansion to arrive in the mail. I have it now, so it's time to get working. I'm hoping things improve soon... but either way I plan to enjoy myself with the new things to play with in the game.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
16565
It gets easier I promise, but then again I haven't pugged anything yet and have been running with friends and guildies since. We have also always been in vent for the runs so I can tell the tank or dps things they need to know, like I'm drinking, getting low on mana, pop cooldowns etc.

Now, I won't be stepping into LFD groups until I have some raid gear and can cover a few mistakes. Right now, play has to be near perfect because there really isn't any breathing room for healers.
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85 Draenei Shaman
4230
Ele for Pugs w/o Vent
Resto for Guild or Friends w/ Vent
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86 Blood Elf Paladin
7735

Though... I will say I am no longer playing my warrior... - I don't like what they did with the class


So your opinion is that they messed up the warrior class...yet you flame people for stating the same about their healing class? Right....
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