Triage Healing: Getting over "green bars"

85 Dwarf Paladin
11575
You've obviously never stepped into a T11 heroic raid. It's so, so, so painfully obvious that you haven't. Healing is far worse than it was in LK in regards to people being at risk of getting one shot, having to spam non-stop to keep people full or they risk falling over dead in seconds (along with 4-5 other people who get hit by unavoidable damage).
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85 Draenei Shaman
3635
After spending a month with the "new model" it is clearly not as good as the old one. It sets a new precedent that questions why healers are even needed. The entire concept of a healer is to heal mistakes and damage that comes from a result of those mistakes.

Any other system is going to be mindlessly cookie cutter because it will require healers to follow a specific rotation that is based on boss damage and abilities. Anything that happens outside of this rotation is then outside of the healers ability to correct.

This expansion makes healing even more mindless than ever before. Go back to BC mechanics. It was perfect.
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58 Draenei Death Knight
0
Yes, everyone has more stamina. No, you may not let people get low on health. A mistake made at full health is fairly minor. That same mistake made at low health could mean a wipe.

Sorry, you have to do your best to keep players at high health. This will be stressful because your heals are very light compared to mana. But do it, or we'll get a healer who can.

I have no idea why this thread of bad advice was stickied. Blue cant be that clueless about their own game, can they?
Edited by Lel on 1/4/2011 9:42 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
11845
I have no idea why this thread of bad advice was stickied. Blue cant be that clueless about their own game, can they?


This from the guy who thought heroic Gunship was a hard healing fight. I don't think we need a grain of salt, we need a handful.
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58 Draenei Death Knight
0
01/04/2011 10:37 PMPosted by Faveokatro
I have no idea why this thread of bad advice was stickied. Blue cant be that clueless about their own game, can they?


This from the guy who thought heroic Gunship was a hard healing fight. I don't think we need a grain of salt, we need a handful.


You are a moron. Never did I say that. Just go diaf
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90 Tauren Shaman
13195
I think one issue that healers have is that it's not so much that the dps is standing in stuff. Most of the attacks raid bosses have are either unpreventable or incredibly destructive. There isn't much of a middle ground in raid design - there aren't many things that you can stand in where it sucks up the mana of the healers, but doesn't prove much of a problem to you. Blizzard has said they want to get back to the "mana sponge" mentality, but I think they were largely unsuccessful in this goal. Mana does matter, but health is still extremely dependent on the healers.
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100 Human Priest
19865
You've obviously never stepped into a T11 heroic raid. It's so, so, so painfully obvious that you haven't. Healing is far worse than it was in LK in regards to people being at risk of getting one shot, having to spam non-stop to keep people full or they risk falling over dead in seconds (along with 4-5 other people who get hit by unavoidable damage).


Yeah I've done one heroic boss and I'm already dreading more with the size of heals but I don't think making the damage really low is the answer as I'd find that pretty boring, I'd rather see AOE heals in general (particularly for non priests since ours is the best though it still feels a bit low) buffed.
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90 Goblin Shaman
8250
i havent done Heroic Raids yet but ive done quite a few Heroic 5 mans and i gotta say i dont understand why people are QQing so much about them. All it takes for a smooth Heroic run is people that know what they're doing and a decent set of gear. I agree a lot with the OP, my mentality in Heroic 5 mans is not trying to keep everyone at full health, its to keep the tank at full and the dps at 50+. With teh tank kept near full it allows you to turn your attention to dps getting low, then you can go back to keeping the tank to full. Heroic 5 mans are now meant to take skill, if you run in and try to AoE everything down its gg corpse run. You need to CC, plan pulls and actually think about things again, and i love that, it weeds the good players from the facerollers of Wrath
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86 Blood Elf Paladin
7735
01/05/2011 6:43 AMPosted by Aeona
it weeds the good players from the facerollers of Wrath

QFT


I'd rather random up with a casual who tries than with an elitist who yells and otherwise makes the run unpleasant.
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85 Night Elf Druid
6850
I'm sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree with your philosophy on "getting over green bars."

I have just started raiding, and have a few heroics under my belt at this point. There is almost always 1 boss in every instance that has unavoidable AoE damage. Keeping people low on health is dangerous.

I'm not saying that everyone needs to be green all the time. Yes, there are times when people will end fights with less than 50% health, but making it a habit to keep dps low is dangerous in my opinion, and poor advice to give.

Right now, my guild is trying to do Magmaw, and the unavoidable raid-wide damage that he does is high. Leaving anyone low for too long is extremely dangerous. Now obviously, Magmaw is an extreme example, but I think it brings the point across.

It's great to say that DPS shouldn't stand in the fire, and it should be okay if we leave them at like 60% health for awhile, but that isn't the truth. There are situations (many of them), where the encounter was not built to that healing model.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
8455
01/04/2011 5:48 PMPosted by Zaroua
You've obviously never stepped into a T11 heroic raid. It's so, so, so painfully obvious that you haven't. Healing is far worse than it was in LK in regards to people being at risk of getting one shot, having to spam non-stop to keep people full or they risk falling over dead in seconds (along with 4-5 other people who get hit by unavoidable damage).


Exactly. What happened to "slowing down healing"? Why does every encounter seem to have unavoidable Raid damage that needs to be healed RIGHT NOW or the next mechanic will insta gib someone?

...and I'm not talking about something like healing Saurfang's Marked target or Frost Tombs in KT. I'm talking about the whole group getting hit for 70% of their health while the RL is yelling about getting them all to a safe zone before we get hit again.

The encounter designers seem to be in LK land while the class designers went the other way.
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85 Tauren Druid
4440
OP Ghostcrawler alt, confirm/deny? As it seems that the OP is in the "lets try to convince everyone this healing system is super-duper awesome!" when it's not.

Or it could theoretically be if the raid/dungeon designers knew you were changing the healing system drastically like this, maybe want to let them know that beforehand next time.
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85 Night Elf Priest
2700
The OP is right and wrong, as is everyone else.

The ACTUAL problem is more basic than that. This game wasn't designed for people with perfect concentration. It's a game played by mostly 16-25 year olds who have alot of real life going on...school, weekend jobs, exams...etc. The OP writes like a philosophy major. I mean really?

What I'd like to know is when will the majority of the players start to say...Hey this feels like work. I mean let's face it, we play this game for gratification, instant satisfaction. This is where we feel good about something we've played for. If most players have to research their fight, focus their concentration too hard and can't brag about top DPS (we've all done it), then most players will consider this new play style as requiring too much work and decide that it's just not worth it.

That's my new year's prediction.

P.S. Yes people have to be topped off because if one hit takes you to 60% then next one will kill you.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
11145
01/04/2011 5:48 PMPosted by Zaroua
You've obviously never stepped into a T11 heroic raid. It's so, so, so painfully obvious that you haven't. Healing is far worse than it was in LK in regards to people being at risk of getting one shot, having to spam non-stop to keep people full or they risk falling over dead in seconds (along with 4-5 other people who get hit by unavoidable damage).


Agreed, This triage model system only really works on a few fights.
Magmaw for example just throws all these triage guides outside of the window because people need to be topped before the next spew then you efficiently get them up during the down time.
It isn't a triage model its the most efficient way to achieve the goal. (Killing the boss = goal).
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85 Dwarf Priest
3580
While I applaud Ashella's effort at putting out a logical post to explain the current healing environment, she, like most other posters, have missed the real issue with healing. Ashella's post addresses in a very logcial, thought out manner the current environment. I feel it is absolutely accurate for the most part. But her accuracy in describing it does not deal with the problem. The problem is not in the logic of the new system, it's in the emotional impact on the person who chooses the healing archetype as their preferred roll in an MMO.

When someone chooses to become a healer, for most it is an emotional decision not a logical one. We don't choose to heal for the group because it is a logical choice to help the group, though some may be trapped by that reality with their particular guild makeup. We become healers become we like the idea of helping others, of healing them.

For us to be 'healers', we have to visually see something for our efforts. We need to see that we have, indeed, healed someone after we throw a spell. When i have to throw five 'heal' spells over a 12-second time frame just to see someone's health bar go up by one quarter, I don't feel like a healer. I feel like a 'bot.'

This issue could so easily be remedied simply by having our inexpensive, ineffective, long-cast heal actually heal enough that we notice the bar move. It would make the healer feel like a healer again, satisfying the emotional need that the majority of healers became healers to get.

I have not seen another post addressing this particular issue in the light that I have cast, but I think it is the underlying issue not being discussed by the healing population. People choose rolls in MMO's for a reason, whether it be DPS, tank, or heals. The Devs are not taking this into consideration when it comes to the healing archetype.

I did not like the Wrath healing style at all. Not one bit. I am not a twitch healer. I'm an old guy who very much likes what has been done in the Cata expansion. But this one little thing needs to be changed, or the healer player base will continue to decline.

I don't have to have mega stats to prove this. Just look at the queues for instances. It says it all.

Just my opinion of course, among many.

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85 Night Elf Priest
2700
P.S.S.

More importantly, will this new play style start creating elitist %@*%s?

For example, you’ve been playing with your “best friend/girlfriend/whatever” for 2 years. He/she doesn’t have the best situational awareness and after raiding unsuccessfully for a few weeks, your Guild Master/Raid Leader decides that player triage is required. Now your best friend can’t be part of the raid because he/she dies too quickly. With this new style healing, there’s just no room for someone who may get hit by a tornado/stand in fire/whatever, even if that person is fun and makes your 3 hours of raiding enjoyable. There seems to be a lot of boss fights in this expansion that require perfection.

So either you end up playing with the best players who may not get along or raiding will be only for the top guilds/players. Either way, it’s going to be bad for Blizzard’s bank account, especially since they just added how many new players with the next-to-free upgrades just before release? I’m sure those guys are all like “WTF just killed me??”.
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85 Night Elf Priest
2700
Healing is about conserving your mana. Rather than watching everyone's health go up and stay up -- you should concern yourself with keeping that blue bar up while keeping everyone else alive.


Are u for real???? So I win if I have full mana??

The best post I ever read said: As a healer - if you have mana at the end of a fight, you are either lazy or overgeared for what you are doing.
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85 Human Priest
3025
Great post, some excellent points here and very well said Ashella.
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85 Human Priest
3025
"The best post I ever read said: As a healer - if you have mana at the end of a fight, you are either lazy or overgeared for what you are doing."

Or prudent, skilled, and ready for the unexpected:)

Blowing the tank every fight because you can, doesn't make you a good healer.

This kind of thinking in Cata: makes you a future liability.
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