The Real Healing Issue

90 Worgen Druid
4880
There are a lot of threads talking about the difficulty of healing heroics (and in my case, healing the regular dungeons) and the issue of running out of mana. I actually don't think that it's a problem with running OOM. I think that the mana limitations (and cost to the healing spells) actually make it challenging in the right way, having to decided which spells to cast when. The real problem lies in the spells being underpowered.

To give a druid healing example, Rejuvenation currently heals for about 15k over 12 secs. That number would have been great a week ago, but a week ago we didn't have tanks with 150k health in questing items taking hits of 30k-40k from trash. Trying to heal a boss in a 5 man and having the tank die before I can get off 3 spells is embarrassing, and I'm ashamed to say I've left groups after 1 or 2 wipes because I felt that I couldn't heal them.

For many people right now, healing is frustrating, embarrassing and not fun. Personally, I feel that this could be resolved not by making our mana last longer, but by bringing our heals up to current HP and Dungeon damage standards.

What do you guys think?
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85 Gnome Priest
4615
The real issues is dps not paying attention to boss mechanics and forcing healing to heal when they arnt supposed to, this leads to healers running oom, this leads to wipes. This brings us back to the golden rule of wow: (pug)dps are bad.

Thats right dps is the root of your problem, the only thing you can do to fix that is dont run pugs. The fact you have no control over whether you go oom or not (for the most part) is an issue. Gear is a solution for sure.

But consider: You (yes all of you, and me ^_^) asked for harder heroics. You got them, just not in the way you expected. Its like playing corrupt a wish.
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90 Draenei Shaman
8150
12/12/2010 11:08 PMPosted by Tidas

For many people right now, healing is frustrating, embarrassing and not fun. Personally, I feel that this could be resolved not by making our mana last longer, but by bringing our heals up to current HP and Dungeon damage standards.

What do you guys think?

It's not even the first tier. You do realize our heals get stronger the more we gear right?

We CAN'T have heal amount go up too much to start. If we do, we get right back to the same problem as wrath, were we heal for too much. The way it's set now is damage is tuned for our current healing, then ramps up the further we gear, but our gear won't inflate too much to be stupidly OP once we get into later tiers.

Healing is fine, and will scale the further we gear. Deal with it.
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85 Draenei Shaman
2880
12/12/2010 11:26 PMPosted by Legolasstabr
12/12/2010 11:18 PMPosted by Jynus
We CAN'T have heal amount go up too much to start. If we do, we get right back to the same problem as wrath, were we heal for too much. The way it's set now is damage is tuned for our current healing, then ramps up the further we gear, but our gear won't inflate too much to be stupidly OP once we get into later tiers.


That's a load of crap. Neither BC nor Wrath required you to completely regear your toon just to be able to heal normal mode dungeons, even at the beginning. I know people who were doing BC Heroics effortlessly in Tier3, and I was personally still wearing at least some Tier4 all the way into WotLK Heroics.

These dungeons (Non-heroic!) are supposed to be healable by people who are just leveling their characters, that means basically having all the same sort of gear we're stuck with right now because it's the begging of the expansion pack.


Um, the non-heroic dungeons are totally healable with quest gear and whatever you pick up from the dungeons you run as you go.

So, what's you're problem, do you need to learn how to play, reroll? I'm doing just fine as a resto sham with 43k mana.
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85 Night Elf Priest
7275
12/12/2010 11:32 PMPosted by Lishaw


Um, the non-heroic dungeons are totally healable with quest gear and whatever you pick up from the dungeons you run as you go.

So, what's you're problem, do you need to learn how to play, reroll? I'm doing just fine as a resto sham with 43k mana.


you picked the right class when you first hit the toon creation screen.

if you picked a disc priest you'd be f#$)ed.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
6490
12/12/2010 11:14 PMPosted by Balticataz
The real issues is dps not paying attention to boss mechanics and forcing healing to heal when they arnt supposed to, this leads to healers running oom, this leads to wipes. This brings us back to the golden rule of wow: (pug)dps are bad.

Thats right dps is the root of your problem, the only thing you can do to fix that is dont run pugs. The fact you have no control over whether you go oom or not (for the most part) is an issue. Gear is a solution for sure.

But consider: You (yes all of you, and me ^_^) asked for harder heroics. You got them, just not in the way you expected. Its like playing corrupt a wish.


Agree, you're oom'ing because the tank/dps arnt doing something right.
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85 Human Paladin
4185
The other option is to get a better tank.

I'm being serious.

Every tank has short cds (30secs to 1 min) that they should be using at the start of a damage heavy pull to to create a buffer for the fight. Every tank has self healing capabilities that they should be utilizing and doing so in a manner that is most productive to succeeding.

Say a 3-4 mob trash pull with high damage.

A prot pallie should be using Divine Protection in a responsible, early time frame in an attempt to buffer the damage while all the mobs are alive. The pallie should also be using WoG a TON. It's absolutely amazing especially since it scales with vengeance.

There's a lot of ways that a tank can play, but you need to find one that knows how best to play in accordance with the new healer model.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
6490
It's all about team work now, it's an MMO, work together and you'll get better results.
WOTLK took team work away.
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90 Gnome Priest
7745
12/12/2010 11:08 PMPosted by Tidas
There are a lot of threads talking about the difficulty of healing heroics (and in my case, healing the regular dungeons) and the issue of running out of mana. I actually don't think that it's a problem with running OOM. I think that the mana limitations (and cost to the healing spells) actually make it challenging in the right way, having to decided which spells to cast when. The real problem lies in the spells being underpowered.

To give a druid healing example, Rejuvenation currently heals for about 15k over 12 secs. That number would have been great a week ago, but a week ago we didn't have tanks with 150k health in questing items taking hits of 30k-40k from trash. Trying to heal a boss in a 5 man and having the tank die before I can get off 3 spells is embarrassing, and I'm ashamed to say I've left groups after 1 or 2 wipes because I felt that I couldn't heal them.

For many people right now, healing is frustrating, embarrassing and not fun. Personally, I feel that this could be resolved not by making our mana last longer, but by bringing our heals up to current HP and Dungeon damage standards.

What do you guys think?


Shammys dont know the mana issue so they think the underpowered healing spells are passable. The ones that have it worse are priests, but is bad for all healing classes. Ur solution is one of many but the situation is horrible if you liked to heal before cataclysm as a priest healer, because now is is a lot more demanding (taking care of every point mana) and frustrating (underpowered spells) and is mainly ur class so people with tell you soon: you are a pires? stop being a healer a shammy can heal the same amount for twice the time u can, why would we want you?
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90 Dwarf Shaman
10315
12/13/2010 12:01 AMPosted by Hopefreya

Shammys dont know the mana issue so they think the underpowered healing spells are passable. The ones that have it worse are priests, but is bad for all healing classes. Ur solution is one of many but the situation is horrible if you liked to heal before cataclysm as a priest healer, because now is is a lot more demanding (taking care of every point mana) and frustrating (underpowered spells) and is mainly ur class so people with tell you soon: you are a pires? stop being a healer a shammy can heal the same amount for twice the time u can, why would we want you?


Class imbalance does not mean that the healing system is broken. If certain classes need adjustments that can be made. Although I have see plenty of priests post here that they feel fine and have grouped with my priest friend several times and we get through heroics just fine with him healing.
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85 Night Elf Druid
4310
I can see why you are having problems... you dont have natures swiftness and you put 1 point into nature's bounty.

I THINK, that if you missed the boat on those two talents, then you may be missing it on other points w/ regard to healing.

For example:

-Do you understand how to use ToL? ToL is used in response to high pressure situations. You pop it and get life bloom running on ur group and use the OoC procs to regrowth while you weave in Healing Touches or Nourishes on the tank.

-Symbiosis means that you want to have a HoT up before you cast a nourish, ht, or regrowth. In pressure situations, Gift of the Earth Mother allows you to do just that since Rejuv will have an instant direct heal.

-Use OoC procs wisely. You should have lifebloom running on the tank. If your tanks is low (or ur entire groups health is looking good), then its a no brainer, use it to refresh LB. If someone in your group is low and the tank is good, regrowth them/HT them (whatever is appropriate).

To be fair, when I have been in groups that wipe, its because one or more ppl werent paying attention and took massive amounts of avoidable damage. I have not had any problems healing. My very first dungeon in Cata was a success (although def took a second for me to get used to it).

*Get Natures swiftness immediately.
Edited by Híppy on 12/13/2010 12:13 AM PST
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85 Night Elf Priest
7275
12/13/2010 12:03 AMPosted by Bnizzle
12/13/2010 12:01 AMPosted by Hopefreya

Shammys dont know the mana issue so they think the underpowered healing spells are passable. The ones that have it worse are priests, but is bad for all healing classes. Ur solution is one of many but the situation is horrible if you liked to heal before cataclysm as a priest healer, because now is is a lot more demanding (taking care of every point mana) and frustrating (underpowered spells) and is mainly ur class so people with tell you soon: you are a pires? stop being a healer a shammy can heal the same amount for twice the time u can, why would we want you?


Class imbalance does not mean that the healing system is broken. If certain classes need adjustments that can be made. Although I have see plenty of priests post here that they feel fine and have grouped with my priest friend several times and we get through heroics just fine with him healing.


yeah, but how do you fix priests?

from a disc perspective, from someone who raided disc throughout wrath..

a) penance output, PWS absorb amounts, and prayer of healing output need to be tripled.
b) grace needs to be a passive buff on the priest, not on a target. or it needs to be a buff like beacon that remains on the target you place it on, at the very least.
c) the mana return from rapture needs to be raised to its pre-nerf state.
d) the reduced mana cost and boosts below a certain % of target health on flash heal needs to return to the disc tree, to make flash a viable filler spell again.

do that and disc priests are the #1 healer again, and their precious "hard" heroics (that aren't hard, they're just made to appear that way by higher numbers and limited healing output) are trivial again.

it's not the classes, it's the entire healing design of the expansion that's flawed.
Edited by Xayd on 12/13/2010 12:15 AM PST
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12 Undead Rogue
0
12/12/2010 11:32 PMPosted by Lishaw
Um, the non-heroic dungeons are totally healable with quest gear and whatever you pick up from the dungeons you run as you go.

Yes it is, but again...

So, what's you're problem, do you need to learn how to play, reroll? I'm doing just fine as a resto sham with 43k mana.


... you're a level 82 shaman.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
10315
12/13/2010 12:14 AMPosted by Xayd
[
yeah, but how do you fix priests?

from a disc perspective, from someone who raided disc throughout wrath..

a) penance output, PWS absorb amounts, and prayer of healing output need to be tripled.
b) grace needs to be a passive buff on the priest, not on a target. or it needs to be a buff like beacon that remains on the target you place it on, at the very least.
c) the mana return from rapture needs to be raised to its pre-nerf state.
d) the reduced mana cost and boosts below a certain % of target health on flash heal needs to return to the disc tree, to make flash a viable filler spell again.

do that and disc priests are the #1 healer again, and their precious "hard" heroics (that aren't hard, they're just made to appear that way by higher numbers and limited healing output) are trivial again.

it's not the classes, it's the entire healing design of the expansion that's flawed.


You wouldn't need to do all of those things to adjust priests, maybe a couple of those things could bring them in line with the other classes. You do understand that this entire game is numbers and that altering the numbers adjusts the difficulty of encounters. So your point of the heroics being artificially hard because of low healing numbers is just ridiculous. How can you judge the entire healing design in the first week of its implementation?
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90 Dwarf Shaman
10315
12/13/2010 12:18 AMPosted by Cus

... you're a level 82 shaman.


...you're a level 12 rogue, so automatically we should ignore what you say, and there could be no possible way you have an alt, or you played beta or anything else.
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85 Night Elf Druid
4310
I love when ppl go into attack mode. being lvl 85 does not mean the OP knows his class (and if he doesnt, it also doesnt mean he should get flamed for it). The OP is complaining about healing but doesnt have Nature's Swiftness. That alone is amazing to me and makes me wonder if the OP knows his class that well.

As a rule of thumb, you should say to yourself, "What am I doing wrong." And bring ur experiences and parses to the forums (if you are going to post about it) and try to get help. If it's not you, it will be clear, otherwise a thread like this is almost purely anecdotal.
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