A question for the "healing is fun!" ppl

90 Blood Elf Priest
7910
12/13/2010 2:35 AMPosted by Kaels
12/13/2010 2:25 AMPosted by Elraine
[quote="14063099437"][quote="14063096822"]Healing being hard, one would assume, would be my own skill would play a part if we clear an instance or not. Atm, it doesnt.

This.


So healing sucks because you don't feel like a prima donna spamming heals on people doing an encounter poorly.[/quote]
No, healing sucks because it's boring and lost most of its class flavour, and because our spells suck.

Healing is not hard because there's no real difference between a marginally-competent healer and an outstanding one - either will do fine with a group that does fight mechanics correctly and has enough DPS, and either will fail with a group that makes any mistakes or has low DPS.[/quote]

The same could be said for every expansion before this. Properly done encounters make all damage predictable. "Healing isn't hard because a decent and amazing player can complete a perfectly executed fight" is a stupid argument.
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85 Goblin Shaman
5215
12/13/2010 2:40 AMPosted by Elraine
"Healing isn't hard because a decent and amazing player can complete a perfectly executed fight"


I agree, but we all said that in wotlk right? THIS IS FACEROLL CHANGE IT. Remeber? Thats the reason they changed it in the first place, and I agree, wotlk was easy, something needed changing. It's still just as faceroll, cept we dont get the satifaction of those big numbers. I'm not trying to say change it back to wotlk, but this is broken too, its just as boring. Atleast in wotlk i could join a lfd without dreading what group comp we had (tried running a heroic with 3 fury wars? yea it doesnt go smoothly) or how many people know how to interrupt/move out of glowing things on the ground.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7910
12/13/2010 2:45 AMPosted by Sentrytotem
12/13/2010 2:40 AMPosted by Elraine
"Healing isn't hard because a decent and amazing player can complete a perfectly executed fight"


I agree, but we all said that in wotlk right? THIS IS FACEROLL CHANGE IT. Remeber? Thats the reason they changed it in the first place, and I agree, wotlk was easy, something needed changing. It's still just as faceroll, cept we dont get the satifaction of those big numbers. I'm not trying to say change it back to wotlk, but this is broken too, its just as boring. Atleast in wotlk i could join a lfd without dreading what group comp we had (tried running a heroic with 3 fury wars? yea it doesnt go smoothly) or how many people know how to interrupt/move out of glowing things on the ground.


Who really cares about the size of the numbers? Leave that to people who look at gear score. A bad healer will get you no where in cata heroics. Many of the bosses I've done I would not trust a lesser skilled person to heal. I run with guild groups so I avoid the festering LFD pool of players. The point is that everyone needs to play well. Saying healing isn't hard because you can't completely carry a raid or heroic 5m is stupid. "Tanking isn't hard enough because I can't be a super star and carry everyone" or "DPS isn't hard enough because I can't do this encounter without the aid of others".

The problem with wrath was that there absolutely zero thought into what spells you used and tanks ran the risk of getting globalled. Healing was easy because you could mash your 2 button all day, it was stressful because if your finger slowed down for a bit your tank would die. It was boring because it required no decision making.
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85 Goblin Shaman
5215


12/13/2010 2:55 AMPosted by Elraine
It was boring because it required no decision making.


But thats exactly what im saying in my post. Did you even read it? There isnt any decision making, everyone, like you, who thinks this new system is awsome say the same thing. DECISION MAKING, L2ADAPT, i've already listed exactly why there isnt any.
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90 Night Elf Druid
6805
12/13/2010 3:02 AMPosted by Sentrytotem
12/13/2010 2:55 AMPosted by Elraine
It was boring because it required no decision making.


But thats exactly what im saying in my post. Did you even read it? There isnt any decision making, everyone, like you, who thinks this new system is awsome say the same thing. DECISION MAKING, L2ADAPT, i've already listed exactly why there isnt any.


Of course theres decision making! I get to choose between Nourish spam or Rebirth.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
8995
I'm not sure exactly what the original posters question is, but I'll try to answer. I'm using all my spells (especially cooldowns and trinkets). And mana potions.

DECISION MAKING, L2ADAPT


If you find that your decision is "to keep the party alive I have to spam heals and go oom" that means that your party members aren't making the right decisions. If healers were able to carry them through that, it means that healers would be reducing the amount of decisions that dps and tanks would have to make.
Edited by Wasselin on 12/13/2010 3:07 AM PST
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85 Goblin Shaman
5215
12/13/2010 3:05 AMPosted by Wasselin
If you find that your decision is "to keep the party alive I have to spam heals and go oom" that means that your party members aren't making the right decisions. If healers were able to carry them through that, it means that healers would be reducing the amount of decisions that dps and tanks would have to make.


I'm fine with insta killing ablities, I'm fine with mobs hitting so hard you have to use CC on every pull untill we're all in t15. I'm perfectly ok with a heroic instance taking well over an hour to do because i have to sit and drink every single pull. What I'm not ok with is being forced to heal with 2 spells or risking oom'ing myself if anything random happens.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7910
12/13/2010 3:02 AMPosted by Sentrytotem
12/13/2010 2:55 AMPosted by Elraine
It was boring because it required no decision making.


But thats exactly what im saying in my post. Did you even read it? There isnt any decision making, everyone, like you, who thinks this new system is awsome say the same thing. DECISION MAKING, L2ADAPT, i've already listed exactly why there isnt any.


I dismissed your reasons on grounds of being misguided. If you think there's no decision making in Cata heroics then you're either being intentionally disingenuous or have ab absurdly high standard for decision making.
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85 Goblin Shaman
5215
12/13/2010 3:16 AMPosted by Elraine
I dismissed your reasons on grounds of being misguided. If you think there's no decision making in Cata heroics then you're either being intentionally disingenuous or have ab absurdly high standard for decision making.


I must have a absurdly high standard then, because to me there is no decisions. Its use riptide on any dps that has taken dmg, healing wave tank untill end of pull. Someone screw up? Maybe one riptide/ghw. Its even worse in full guild runs. If someone screws up, they generally dont do it again, and 99% of the time riptide has them at 100% hp before they do.

So tell me what decisions i have to make?
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
8995
12/13/2010 3:09 AMPosted by Sentrytotem
12/13/2010 3:05 AMPosted by Wasselin
If you find that your decision is "to keep the party alive I have to spam heals and go oom" that means that your party members aren't making the right decisions. If healers were able to carry them through that, it means that healers would be reducing the amount of decisions that dps and tanks would have to make.


I'm fine with insta killing ablities, I'm fine with mobs hitting so hard you have to use CC on every pull untill we're all in t15. I'm perfectly ok with a heroic instance taking well over an hour to do because i have to sit and drink every single pull. What I'm not ok with is being forced to heal with 2 spells or risking oom'ing myself if anything random happens.


If you didn't have the risk of oom'ing yourself then there would be no decision to make at all, and you would probably only be using one spell.

So tell me what decisions i have to make?


Maybe you can tell us what type of decisions you would like to make? I'm getting confused as to what your point is. What do you want exactly?
Edited by Wasselin on 12/13/2010 3:25 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7910
12/13/2010 3:20 AMPosted by Sentrytotem
12/13/2010 3:16 AMPosted by Elraine
I dismissed your reasons on grounds of being misguided. If you think there's no decision making in Cata heroics then you're either being intentionally disingenuous or have ab absurdly high standard for decision making.


I must have a absurdly high standard then, because to me there is no decisions. Its use riptide on any dps that has taken dmg, healing wave tank untill end of pull. Someone screw up? Maybe one riptide/ghw. Its even worse in full guild runs. If someone screws up, they generally dont do it again, and 99% of the time riptide has them at 100% hp before they do.

So tell me what decisions i have to make?


Hrm so well done trash pulls don't require much thought in healing? Who would've thought?

Please stop using near-perfect executions or intentionally easy pulls as a reason to say healing doesn't require thought. Go into a new boss encounter and tell me you don't have to make decisions on what heals to use during a learning period. Difficulty in healing has always come from progression not pulls that are on farm status.
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88 Blood Elf Paladin
7615
12/13/2010 2:23 AMPosted by Svyre
You appear to be complaining that your numbers aren't big enough, when we are all still in, or not even in, the first tier of content.

"I'm less effective in dungeon blues than i was in endgame wotlk gear, omg blizz" appears to be the complaint, not spell choice, or having to not stand in fire, or something.


I like this one.

12/13/2010 1:49 AMPosted by Marclark

Point proved...you're spamming this most of the time and playing priority wack-a-mole and you think it's fun...moving along.


But this one is ignorant.

Ok, to clarify for anyone in this thread that does not understand this. Healing is playing whack-a-mole and always has been. If you are claiming that healing is not fun now because of this then why the hell did you choose to be a healer in the first place? Actually, why are you playing this game in the first place? Healers play whack-a-mole. DPS play whack-a-mole. Tanks are enablers. All with silly little side games. What do you want? That's WoW.

[quote="14060501642"]My first toon was a Warrior back in BC, and while tanking (and not having fun with that), I'd notice some healers seemed to crumple under the slightest pressure on the group, while others could pull us from the maw of hell. I rerolled a Paladin to be that latter healer - sure a good group wouldn't put me through that, but with extreme skill I could take a mediocre to bad group much farther than another healer could.[/quote]

And this one confuses me. Are you saying you felt Priests and Druids weren't capable or the players themselves? I hope you meant the players because it doesn't make sense to me the other way being Horde and all.
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85 Tauren Druid
3555
Hmm and has it occured to any of you how this might affect your healing class in pvp?

Wonder how much PVP utility classes with healing trees just lost. Wonder if some of you people with more PVP experience can tell me.

Just how effective are the heals going to be against damage classes or if you are in your damage spec for pvp how much does it rely on what are now your extremely really weak heals for support utility to be viable against other dps classes with more damage and cc?

Any idea how much "fun" this is going to be in pvp? For some reason the debate all centers around pve right now.
Edited by Tigwig on 12/13/2010 3:35 AM PST
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12825
12/13/2010 2:40 AMPosted by Elraine
The same could be said for every expansion before this. Properly done encounters make all damage predictable. "Healing isn't hard because a decent and amazing player can complete a perfectly executed fight" is a stupid argument.

You're missing my point. Healing isn't hard because either a decent or an amazing healer can complete a perfectly-executed fight and either a decent or an amazing healer will fail a less-than-perfectly-executed fight. There's little to no grey area where the healer can make the difference between success and failure.

As far as a group is concerned, the amazing healer is exactly the same as the barely-decent healer. The amazing healer doesn't allow them to clear harder content, to progress faster, or even to get sleepy and make mistakes. An outstanding tank or DPS might be able to do any of those things. But an outstanding healer cannot. In fact, under the new healing model, it would be pretty hard to even define "outstanding."
Edited by Kaels on 12/13/2010 3:39 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7910
12/13/2010 3:38 AMPosted by Kaels
You're missing my point. Healing isn't hard because either a decent or an amazing healer can complete a perfectly-executed fight and either a decent or an amazing healer will fail a less-than-perfectly-executed fight. There's little to no grey area where the healer can make the difference between success and failure.

As far as a group is concerned, the amazing healer is exactly the same as the barely-decent healer. The amazing healer doesn't allow them to clear harder content, to progress faster, or even to get sleepy and make mistakes. An outstanding tank or DPS might be able to do any of those things. But an outstanding healer cannot. In fact, under the new healing model, it would be pretty hard to even define "outstanding."


This is completely and outright false.
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85 Goblin Priest
7875
The OP's "fact" or statement has a rather large hole in it. Fun is relative. You can't speak for the entire healing community. What's not fun for you is fun for someone else.

What % of the healing playerbase post on these forums, much less read them?

edit: That's not to say that you can't say that the current iteration of healing is not fun *for you*. I personally like it, it's not spam everyone with nary a care in the world about mana usage. Once people figure out that they don't need to top people off, only heal them enough that they survive the next incoming damage, the stress level will reduce.

Raiding is now about the dps caring not only their epeen on the meters, but how much damage they avoid. Pretty soon they'll be talking about "ha! I only took 10 dmg and you took 1 beeeeelion damage", is what I hope. =p

It actually made my raid more about teamwork.
Edited by Benea on 12/13/2010 3:49 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
Og
8430
Did some raiding for the first time since the expansion last night. Healing is fun.
No more spamming biggest HPS spell anymore. People can actually stay alive at ~50% health for 10seconds+.
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