Prot paladin suggestion minus Word of Glory

85 Blood Elf Paladin
6060
Hello.

Just wanted to say that I personally feel WoG is way overpowered as a prot paladin. Maybe it scales poorly from 80-85 so it's not as ridiculous, but I kind of doubt it. Anyway, since I feel like this skill is going to get nerfed into the ground at some point (rightfully so), I wanted to suggest some ways to change/de-emphasize it for prot and still give them something cool in later tier talents.

My suggestion is two things:
1) Add this to Sacred Duty: A 50/100% cast time reduction on the next Exorcism after you use Judgement
2) Add this to Guarded by the Light: 50/100% increased critical strike damage on Exorcism (unless I'm mistaken and it now crits for 200%, unlike all other hybrid caster's spells), and a % damage bonus to Exorcism. You could also make this so it only applies when you have Holy Shield active, but I think being tied to Judgement's cooldown (practically speaking at least) is enough of a restriction.

What I think this would do is a few things:
    Get away from WoG for Prot, which seems pretty ridiculously OP now
    Give Prot paladins another button for single target tanking (I personally feel like this is still missing just one thing in its rotation, while AOE tanking is great)
    Give good Prot players another way to keep their threat up on boss fights
    Give Prot paladins a way to do their own version of "tab-Sunder" in a situation where they might need a quick threat boost on a second mob being tanked, but can't/shouldn't do the full AOE tank rotation


I'm sure you are coming up with your own solutions internally, but personally I feel like the nerf hammer's going to drop on WoG sooner rather than later, so I might as well throw out a suggestion that I think would let you take Prot paladins in a new direction instead of nerfing a spell that's not overpowered for the other two trees. This is also why my current tank spec doesn't have WoG talents (aside from GBTL).

I also want to say that GBTL makes WoG a win button in pvp for me. Not that I pvp that often, but it just straight up ruins almost any class's hope of killing me because I can and will survive long enough for 3 holy power and a WoG. This is probably incredibly obvious, though.
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84 Human Paladin
1600
It scales VERY poorly. With buffs I am @ about 94k hp and WoG at 3 hp still heals for about 13k. a 1 hp WoG right now is like 1 or 2 ticks of renew :(
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
2550
Indeed, as of right now I feel that WoG is a nice tool and it adds to survivability, which is nice. And has saved me a few times, in near death moments where I needed just a few seconds of relief. There is no chance my 13k hp save is gonna help much in endgame cata tanking, so I see no need to nerf this or any other ability at the moment. Paladins right now are exactly where they should be, at least protection wise. At first it was a little odd but now I see the changes really give us more options in how we tank. The Holy Shield changes irritated me at first, though with the mastery it only makes sense and have come to see that.We have more Oh #@%@ buttons than ever, and that makes me happy as we always lacked them on a not ridiculous CD such as how LoH used to be. 10 mins unspecced ain't bad though. In any case, why would you want them to nerf something that is perfectly balanced. You can either spend that HP to heal you, or to deal dmg/create threat. Unless needed, we're going to spend it on damage...I see no problem here.
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85 Human Paladin
3745
shhhh...don't be spread rumors about Word of Glory. It's an extremely fun mechanic, and adds diversity to the Protection tree.

It's interesting being a more defensive and healing orientated tank, as this is what I signed up for.

And as for another button for tanking, why? I like the simplicity of the single target crusader strike and multi-target Hammer of the Righteous. We have so many cool-downs to use now, and having a simple threat rotation allows us easily splice in those cds at the right time.

Lore-wise, why would a Protection Paladin go around Exorcising her/his enemies? Leave it to the Retribution Paladins.
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92 Human Paladin
3020
With 118K health self-buffed, 3HoP WoG heals me for...15K. 22K if I crit. The only time it can be considered reasonably OP is if you get an EG double crit out of it, which I'll admit is pretty sweet.

It just seems OP before 83 or so because of the absolutely miniscule health pools by comparison.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
2550
Exactly. RIght now my 85 lock friend has over 100k hp and I'm still below 60k. >> so..yeah. << Yeah, a 3x HP WoG X2 crit, is nice..but that's still barely half your health unless you wanna pop AW for a lil boost >> and even then in endgame that's gonna probably get eaten in moments, so...A little bubble when at full health is cool though, for a period of heavy damage as Blizzard would say.
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92 Human Paladin
3020
Well, don't get me wrong, WoG is simply amazing for alleviating healing burden over time if you don't have DPS riding your threat ceiling like a pack of aspie rodeo clowns. A single WoG will save your healer in the neighborhood of 5-7K mana, and that's absolutely nothing to sneeze at.
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85 Dwarf Paladin
6010
I think you should run some heroics, and report back. I like being able to toss the odd heal to other melee, or casters even.


In terms of rotation yes its simple, but its effective. And when you are tanking you needed to be more focus on the encounter then damaging abilities. This was the intention for having it this way. And imo its working great.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
2550
I like to take everything directly into endgame style scenarios, as that's what concerns me most. While 5-7k mana isn't anything to laugh at for sure, if you see you're at 20% health and have 2-3 HP you're either gonna look to pop a CD or WoG. If you pop WoG you might make it long enough for the healer to get yo back up, but regardless they were gonna have to continue healing you. So I don't really see it as a save for mana, unless you're casting it on someone else, which I can see as being very helpful, for sure; just doesn't -really- save the caster any mana if they had to heal you anyway. If you're spamming it on yourself, then well yeah it'll help, but does anyone really do that? And I'm kind of getting tired of talking about WoG. XD It is a good skill, very useful, not broken at all. We should just leave it alone.
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85 Human Paladin
5190
One thing you guys re forgetting is that WOG also scales with attack power, if your in a boss encounter with heavy tank damage, once your vengeance is stacked your WoG will crit for almost 40k. and since threat isnt an issue, and shouldnt be at all. giving us another attack to use while tanking and taking away defensive ability would be so pointless that it boggles my mind that anyone would even ask for it.
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85 Human Paladin
3295
Infact, it scales so poorly that its a waste now to even spend talent points on Guarded by the Light, since you'll hardly be at full hp to gain the absorb shield and even if you are it'll maybe absorb one hit from mob before it fades.

Must remember to respec when servers go up again.
Edited by Krèèdz on 12/14/2010 6:00 AM PST
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85 Dwarf Paladin
2920
Why are we crying about WoG? Or is this one of those 'complain about everything' threads that has been 'cleverly' disguised as legitimate discussion?
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92 Human Paladin
3020
Well, nobody's really crying about WoG. It's more one of those "we have a versatile, useful, and well-balanced tool at our disposal, therefore it's going to be nerfed" things. Kind of.

If anything, most of the people in the thread are talking about how good it is.
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85 Undead Priest
3465
idk why it wont post on meh paladin but w/e...dear OP...srsly you want them to nerf paladin..why would you ask for such a thing...2+ stacks Hp WoG on large facepull trash = threat. stacked with veng its rediculous and takes sooo much of the pug heals who is oom every pull anyways. we now have more options then ever and you are asking them to take 1 away. takeing a little of the burden off heals is OP...obviously you are 1 of the players still trying to play as if its WoLk launch not cata i would suggest finish lvling and un few pug heroics...WoG is you friend


ps: when being chased by deathwing with your friends..trip a friend you can always make a new one
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85 Dwarf Paladin
2920
At least it hasn't derailed into crying.

Yet.

I can't tell anymore. Best to view all threads in these forums with scrutiny.
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85 Human Paladin
5190
yeah, I love how people blindly talk about things and dont pay attention to the replies..


When you have vengeance stacked to 13k ap, in a raid. your wog will be hitting for around 30k non crit. its a great tool to alleviate healing pressure, or to pop as a cooldown for the bubble right before a breath or a high tank damage ability
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