Ready to stop complaining about Feral Druids?

85 Blood Elf Paladin
Og
7670
Posted by Alki
I notice how hard it is to get away from you damn Druids ... lol. Aspect of the Fox shooting on the run does nothing when people squat on you and slow you to where you can't get away. When you do get away, you're immediately intercepted, charged, only to have that same person squatting on you again. WTB distance requirement removed, kthx!

All is fun in love and war. Just know that if you're getting wrecked by someone you can't see ... it's me hiding in a bush or behind a rock wearing full PvE gear.

I'll stick to my new Hunter though. Fun in PvE, not so fun in PvP.


how to guide hunter V feral. trinket pounce and wing clip right away. disengage and start laying into him. when he feral charges, blow deterance and lay some traps. after this. pray to god you can kite him around your traps and kill him b4 he gets a second charge.
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100 Blood Elf Warrior
7580
The reason people complain about ferals is they have the whole package for a melee. Stealth, interrupts, cyclone, roots and root breaks, bear form to survive getting bursted, and all that is backed up by crap tons of burst. Over the course of a fight it feels like sp, warriors, and destro all deal more damage and can have stronger burst when the stars hit right(I know today I killed a resto druid from full in 4 gcd even when he had hots rolling). Are ferals overpowered...maybe but if it is anything that makes them op is not likely the damage. Besides it is hard to complain about damage when no one has resil at all. I ate a 22k frostbolt when not deep frozen today...I doubt anything close to that will happen once I am in full pvp blues.
Edited by Tipsygiggle on 12/14/2010 10:42 PM PST
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85 Tauren Druid
6190
12/14/2010 10:32 PMPosted by Tailswipe
You can't really make an argument based solely on damage output and who should do the most damage. I understand what you mean about burst vs. sustained damage, but let's not try and act like Ferals need 20 seconds to do adequate damage to a target. Warlocks and Shadow Priests are easily dispelled. Nothing dispels a bleed (lol Dwarf). I don't mean to compare pluses and minuses of each spec, but no class really should hold the title of highest single target damage, and especially not if they have considerable utility outside of their damage.
notice i said pressure and not damage, there is significant difference between the two. my point is simply that pressure MUST be higher than the pressure of the more bursty specs to have any hope of actually working in a pvp environment. i am not really sure how anyone could argue a spec should have less burst and less/equal sustained pressure (NOT damage, pressure- the sum total of CC, damage, etc).

in a real pvp environment, ferals simply do not burst people down anything like what a warrior can do, for instance, let alone any non dot caster. it just doesn't happen.

yes, lock and spriest dots are dispellable, but they can be applied to multiple people at range with no short term resource limitation besides a short cast time or the GCD. bleeds being undispellable is a strength, no doubt, but you cannot ignore the strengths of the other methods of dot application there.

if the spec is too strong, it will be painfully obvious to everyone in less than a week. nerfs will come fast in that case.
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85 Tauren Druid
6190
Posted by Dawnfist

how to guide hunter V feral. trinket pounce and wing clip right away. disengage and start laying into him. when he feral charges, blow deterance and lay some traps. after this. pray to god you can kite him around your traps and kill him b4 he gets a second charge.
pounce and ravage do not work on camo'd hunters. no reason to even consider pounce anymore in those duels.

not that it affects the end result though.
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1 Orc Shaman
0
Arms Warriors have far more out of control damage atm. Its just not as noticeable because warriors suck in unorganized BGs (which is what 90% of pvp in this game is).

Feral just needs the rake bug fixed, and maybe even slightly nerfing Rake/Rip even further and it will be balanced. They don't need to completely destroy the spec like they did in BC, Bear form has pretty good damage and Feral has an interrupt now, 2 things that were really holding the spec back before.

Giving Warriors their own HoJ was kind of a bad idea, but the main culprit is the damage they can do inside of a CS duration. Maybe toning down of CS would help balance that.

I just don't want to see any specs made non viable because of knee jerk over nerfing.
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85 Tauren Druid
6190
12/14/2010 10:58 PMPosted by Flexxconexx
I just don't want to see any specs made non viable because of knee jerk over nerfing.
if that happens, i'll give you one guess between arms and feral which one it will be.
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85 Tauren Druid
2320

I mean don't you think your spec "might" be just a tad over the top?


No. What I think is that Rake is bugged, the good arena players know it, and they are stacking Mastery to exploit it.

And don't you come here and tell me that 20k crit Ravages (Ambush equivalent) or 30k crit 5CP full-energy + Tiger's Fury Ferocious Bites are too much. Warriors can repeatedly hit you with 30k crit Mortal Strikes. Mages can repeatedly Shatter crit you with Ice Lance spam for 20k... or just spam it at unfrozen targets for 7k. Warlocks can deal the upside of 50k damage in a single Shadowfury.

I'm sick of your entitlement complex. Feral Druid damage is middle-of-the-pack in PvE WITH the Rake bug. That's when they can go full-bore and maintain all of their buffs. Everything a Feral Druid can do in PvP another class can do better -- and that includes DoT pressure.

Frankly, I'm not sure how I'm going to kill Warriors and Warlocks once the Rake bug is fixed. They are already passively regenning life faster than a full stack of DoTs can bring them down.
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85 Tauren Druid
6190
Posted by Primuz
All you have to do is read Arena Junkies class forums for about 15mins and know that the Feral Druid and Frost Mage nerfs will be coming to a patch near you. Just about every class is complaining about it.

Seems anything with a mage or feral druid on the team is a auto loss. 2800 players dropping 500 MMR to bad ferals and frost mages.
players losing matches to a spec they are unfamiliar with and complaining does not in itself mean there is an issue. i am not saying that there isn't an issue, simply that you have to take it with a massive grain of salt.

like i said before, it will be painfully obvious in about a week if the spec is overperforming. there won't really be any argument one way or another once real data and rankings starts showing up with hard numbers. if the spec is overperforming, i expect and welcome nerfs.


Also Cihlardr you keep saying that ferals don't have good multiple target damage pressure but if you read AJ, alot of the complaints are coming from people saying "The feral dotted us both up", and our healer couldn't heal through the damage.
the only time it is really possible or worthwhile to do that is if you pop zerk and the grim batol trinket and happen to get 2 rips up at once. aside from that, the CP's simply aren't there.

that's not even really the most effective use of the CD unless you are running with a spriest or aff lock, and doing that pretty much eliminates the possibility of effectively either of the people you bled up.

While I keep hearing that most of the damage is coming from bleeds, I am seeing screenshots of 20k FBs, and 17-19k Shreds???
ferocious bite and shred are simply not big parts of our damage, i don't know what the confusion is. unless the FB kills someone, it's a total waste vs refreshing rip (plus hitting for that much means he dropped an entire energy bar on someone, better spent on rake).

I mean don't you think your spec "might" be just a tad over the top?
i think the rake bug needs to be fixed yesterday, and i think some of the control needs to be reduced. i think that if the spec is showing itself to be too powerful based on rankings and such it will probably need to be toned down further.

the concern is that we are going to swiftly be going from a situation where many ferals are in pve gear with heavy mastery attacking others in mostly pve/crafted pvp gear to ferals in relatively low mastery pvp gear attacking people in resilience. assuming the rake bug does get fixed, doesn't it seem possible that they would overshoot their mark given those circumstances?
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85 Tauren Druid
6190
Posted by Primuz
[quote="null"]15363459160


It's possible. I feel for you dude because I have been there. Your spec is slightly overtuned and you are happy that it is finally viable and competative. It needs some small adjustments but you fear you might get gutted.

Warriors are over the top too but if feral/warrior/paladin is to strong you can expect that feral will pay the price for it.[/quote]yeah, knowing what numbers i am seeing, i can't imagine if i had the grim batol trinket. the combination of that and the rake bug is obviously broken.
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85 Troll Druid
4445
30k crit 5CP full-energy + Tiger's Fury Ferocious Bites


I wouldn't mind seeing a Tiger's Fury change, 15% bonus for 6 seconds every 30 seconds.

Also Cihlardr you keep saying that ferals don't have good multiple target damage pressure but if you read AJ, alot of the complaints are coming from people saying "The feral dotted us both up", and our healer couldn't heal through the damage.


You understand what it requires in order for a feral to multi dot right?

My warlock has focus macros to for dotting.

20k Shreds under what circumstances?
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85 Tauren Druid
2320
"They're class is OP, but mine isn't. You're comparing us to an OP class. Stop it!"


OP? What's OP?

How about Elemental Shaman producing massive burst if left to free-cast for as little as 6 seconds, while touting the best interrupt in the game and backed up by totems and Purge?

Have you seen Death Knights and their over-the-top Necrotic Strike stacking to prevent any sort of effective healing on a target? Let's not forget their powerful cooldowns, Death Grip, Strong ranged snare, interrupts, Silence, and excellent burst on demand.

Even Shadow Priests can produce some pretty insane pressure, and their DoTs tick as hard as a full run of Feral bleeds once built-up into their damage buffs. They do run out of mana fast, but until then they can really dish the pain.

Heck, even Ret Paladins get those occasional strings of magical crits. Exorcism can generate a 30k crit in current gear under the right circumstances. I suppose Ret Paladins are OP now?

Rogues and Hunters need some help in PvP; I get it, OK? I even mentioned it in my original post. But just because other classes can actually kill people in PvP doesn't make them OP. As much as everyone complains about Frost Mages, almost EVERY class is getting to that same level. They may not output the sheer inane on-demand burst of a Frost Mage, but they can certainly generate big hits.

Having said that, those kinds of hits are few and far between, and sinking a 30k crit into someone who have 100k-120k HP unbuffed doesn't have the same impact as the big number might imply -- especially if it cannot be done repeatedly (which most classes can't).

This is the same issue that I'm trying to drill through your wall of nerf-calls for anything that manages to kill you in PvP: those HUGE numbers you are seeing right now are not really that impressive. Landing a 30k crit is exciting, but it doesn't have the impact that it did in WotLK. Without the big hits or heavy pressure fights would last several minutes instead of the 15-30 seconds that one would expect.
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44 Undead Mage
0
12/14/2010 12:11 PMPosted by Sigfodr
Nice distraction tactic though, you'll notice mages aren't quite as powerful anymore so that ship has sailed, but I do agree that warriors and locks are at a point where they can beat an opponent with 100% hp without requiring any real skill.

Wut?

Did I miss something?

Or are you talking about Demo Locks letting their pets solo people in a HoG root + FG stun with FroStorm?
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85 Worgen Mage
2060
Posted by Primuz

While I keep hearing that most of the damage is coming from bleeds, I am seeing screenshots of 20k FBs, and 17-19k Shreds???

I mean don't you think your spec "might" be just a tad over the top?

That's actually not that impressive. That's less than 20% of your hps. Plenty of classes can hit harder than 20k.
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