Holy Paladin nerfs?

42 Undead Hunter
250
I'm curious how the "bring the player" is going to work for AoE healing now with paladins. Our "spammable" AoE heal is now either going to cost us either 16000 mana (2 DL's and a HS on the Beacon) every 6 seconds or have an effective 15 second cooldown for a paltry 5k heal on 6 people. Meanwhile, Holy Radiance in a raid setting hitting 25 people is so capped that you'll get maybe a few hundred health a tic on each person. We have no preemptive heals, our Mastery is still pretty terrible, and we have plenty of mana problems with less ways of addressing them because of the "MS yourself for less mana than an innervate" that is Divine Plea.

Something has to give here, unless you want to go back to the "Holy Pally on the tank only" model of healing.


But other healers have spells that can hit all 25 targets easily and spells that heal for more than 5k with less than 16k mana cost and 6 second cd?

Please elaborate?

85 Blood Elf Paladin
8600
12/21/2010 8:26 AMPosted by Shìne

so youre saying that you wont be satisfied till pallys are not just "efficient" but "fun" also.

although i do sort of agree with that, please realize that the other healing classes are not even "efficient" let alone "fun"


I think you miss the point of playing a game.


How is paladin healing not fun? I rerolled paladin in ICC - and well, it's like 500x more fun now than it was in ICC. I have more than 2 spells to cast...

Also, I BoSac is amazing now as well.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
8600
12/21/2010 8:30 AMPosted by Rotshot
I'm curious how the "bring the player" is going to work for AoE healing now with paladins. Our "spammable" AoE heal is now either going to cost us either 16000 mana (2 DL's and a HS on the Beacon) every 6 seconds or have an effective 15 second cooldown for a paltry 5k heal on 6 people. Meanwhile, Holy Radiance in a raid setting hitting 25 people is so capped that you'll get maybe a few hundred health a tic on each person. We have no preemptive heals, our Mastery is still pretty terrible, and we have plenty of mana problems with less ways of addressing them because of the "MS yourself for less mana than an innervate" that is Divine Plea.

Something has to give here, unless you want to go back to the "Holy Pally on the tank only" model of healing.


But other healers have spells that can hit all 25 targets easily and spells that heal for more than 5k with less than 16k mana cost and 6 second cd?

Please elaborate?


Holy paladins are pretty solid on raid healing still. People seem to equate raid healing with 5-25person aoe heals, which isn't the case necessarily. No one is better at triaging single targets up like a paladin is. We can still use aoe heals quite often, but unless you want us to be clones of priests, I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Priests are a bit better at aoe healing than us. We're a bit better at tank healing than priests. We can both do either job well.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
8600
12/21/2010 8:43 AMPosted by Råge
[quote]

How is paladin healing not fun? I rerolled paladin in ICC - and well, it's like 500x more fun now than it was in ICC. I have more than 2 spells to cast...

Also, I BoSac is amazing now as well.

There always was more than 2 spells to cast since vanilla, maybe you just sucked.


Hard mode lich king - Keep beacon up, cast Holy Light on the tank. Throw in HS on movement. Aura mastery in the rotation. Keep shield up on. Okay, so trivial buffs to keep up, one cd to blow in a rotation. Hard stuff. Diverse healing, yep.

You could hand of sac with bubble but there wasn't much else you would want to do since FoL was weak as crap.

Please, elaborate on what I'm missing as a paladin.
90 Dwarf Paladin
12105
Paladin healing is awesome right now, we actually have to pay attention!
85 Dwarf Paladin
5300
i wish we have a go to aoe heal even if it is on a 1min CD that actually HEAL alot.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
6855
12/16/2010 1:11 AMPosted by Zehn
So we go from an actual honest to god heal rotation which Blizzard has been trying to get us to do since the dawn of the game to...once again stacking haste to the exclusion of all else and mashing holy light?

Epic.

Watch out Shaman, they'll be coming for healing stream totem next once a Blizzard dev realizes just how well it's scaling now.


Funny I always stacked INT pre-cata, now my gear is stacked to spirit for regen, int for sp and mana pool. Haste when possible with Enchants/Gems as Haste/Int/Spirit in that order. Crit became far less of a concern. Though it shouldn't be forgotten.

General Rotation:
Shock, Holy, Holy, Holy, Shock, Holy, Holy, Holy, Shock, DoL, etc..

I think they did quite will in introducing a rotation. The above being base and and you still would have situational changes as needed.
85 Human Paladin
4610
I have healed as a paladin for some time now and I will say for awhile we were very mana efficient. I would come out of some very hot and heavy battles full of mana before cat. I have adapted I think as well as most with the new changes and I must say that yes some of the problem is the rest of the group not knowing there role but heals are light and mana is scarse one wrong move by a group and they wipe I can't heal them through. I have been kicked out of instances that no one CC's or the tank goes pre LK heroic run through no stops needed. I do like the challenge now in healing was kinda boring for a time but then again that was also because I spent alot of time getting gear to make it so. Blizz you got to keep in mind LK at 80 with 200 or lower blues was a bit of a challenge you nerfed it seems cause healers had it to easy well...... we are in 250+ gear in instances designed for 200...... I hope its easy or ya suck. I have every healing class and so far Pallies got it bad, my Disp priest holds its own as my druid though mana is a problem and while your at it help shammies out to haven't run mine in 80+ areas but the ones i have run with are hurting had to back up heal with everyone I have run with long casting time and mana shortage is killing them poor shammies. (off soap box now :-) )
85 Blood Elf Paladin
4580
I have been raiding since the change to paladins and yes i do see our mana pool dropping faster, but i have no problems getting it back up. Based on which encounter determines how i bring it back up, ill use magmaw 10 man for example since it has wonderful lull periods. Believe it or not i am on raid healing for magmaw with beacon on the tank. HS stays on CD every time its up, spam HL on raid when they need heals (if daybreak procs YAY i get HP even faster). Once pillar is up we spread once person has agro on all the worms everyone jumps back into stack formation (HR and LOD). Obviously there will be times spamming HL wont be enough healing and we have to change to FoL or DL, or when you see the tank take a big hit and u have to spam him (yay more HP generation). Once magmaw slams to the ground spend 5 seconds finishing up any healing then run into melee, judge and melee for mana while u use ur spt trinket and plea. Even if you were at 20k mana left you can easily get back to ur 90-100k mana pool before the end of the crash phase. Rinse and repeat.

We are not borken, we are not just MT healers, and LoD and HP are not completely useless, they all have a place in our arsenal of healing.
85 Human Paladin
4610
I play a healing druid they are fun and easy to play actually throw enough hots on your group and maybe alittle boring out of all the healers I play them all 80+ but a shammie (coming soon) druids are not in need. Holy priests and Shammies had some room for improvement and now Pallies need some tinkering. As for wining pallies every spec of every class has a nice list of complainers if you don't like the pally whine page go back to your classes whine page we don't have enough tissues for other classes cutting in on us :-)
85 Human Paladin
4610
I play a healing druid they are fun and easy to play actually throw enough hots on your group and maybe alittle boring out of all the healers I play them all 80+ but a shammie (coming soon) druids are not in need. Holy priests and Shammies had some room for improvement and now Pallies need some tinkering. As for wining pallies every spec of every class has a nice list of complainers if you don't like the pally whine page go back to your classes whine page we don't have enough tissues for other classes cutting in on us :-)<br/>
85 Blood Elf Paladin
5550
12/15/2010 11:32 AMPosted by Nethaera
Blizzard, you ever think maybe you needed to buff the other classes and not nerf this one? My Priest is still about as broken and unfun as it could possibly get




Just so we don't turn this into a priest vs. paladin discussion, we have already applied some adjustments to priests in some hotfixes and will be updating our hotfix listing shortly. We already acknowledged (Bashiok did) that we were aware of priests perhaps needing a slight boost. That boost has already occurred, and again, we will continue watching to see how all of these changes are working out.


slap in the face
85 Human Paladin
4610
Reflecting on some of these posts across all the healing specs I think although some tweeking is in order I think the real issue is alot of us that play healers are used to being the hero. Many of times I have been or seen a group run HoS (LK) where someone pulled every Mob at the crossing or HoL they pulled every black Iron dwarf and giant and the healer (with the combined effort of a smart tank) pull a group out of a sure wipe. That is not really a feat that healers can pull off anymore, Tanks need to tank smart DPS need to know how to DPS and yes believe it or not its not just hack and slash sorry to dissapoint. If you don't know your role or how to play it Healers included you are at a big dissadvantage in Cat which is actually nice.
3 Tauren Paladin
0
Any stealth nerfs in the latest round of hotfixes?
Edited by Holyribeye on 12/22/2010 11:00 AM PST
85 Troll Shaman
7550
I still think paladin efficiency and throughput is to high. Would like to see them brought down a bit more, and bring other classes up a bit more.
85 Draenei Paladin
4915
You're still going on about this?!.... /palmface

Ok, here's the thing. When I saw this thread 1st I was at work, just browsing on my break and bumped onto it, had no idea about any nerf, wasn't playing at a time and when I read it I thought "daaaam! I wonder how bad is it?" thinking it's for valid legitimate reasons that this thread was so big and growing so fast...

Guess what...

Got home, had a shower, logged in, qued to my 1st dungeon... quickly realised I'm hardly affected by the change.
Soon after that got right item level for heroics, aaaand guess what, healing just as usual, not complaining too much at all. Capable of compensating even for very bad and reckless tanks, no CC, just charging in, managing to cover for bad dps standing in all kinds of 'wrong'...

One thing that got nerfed and needed a nerf was Light of Dawn, which still works just as well, and now that we have it cleared out that Beacon passing all LoD heals to the tank as was our own talented self heal is infact intended and not accidental, it does make full sense - LoD was healing for too much before compared to others, now it's fine, team still gets healed, tank still gets 20k+ hp spikes with it (your positioning IS important when using it), everything else is fine.

Holy Light not generating Holy Power anymore was needed - the idea of all the changes was to remove paladins need of spamming one heal over and over... instead, paladins resorted to familiar spamming again - this time on the tank even for no reason to get 3HoPo charges asap and LoD everyone - again, needed or not - and proceed again with spamming on the tank.

Should've known better when I read all that whine about how bad things are... forum whine will always be forum whine...
100 Blood Elf Priest
14480
I guess you could blame my Paladin's name-Nerfmeimop. Light of Dawn with huge health pools is really powerful. The Paladins in my guild know when to use it properly and although not top HPS on some AoE heavy fights they will always be required to tank heal.

When those Holy Paladins run out of mana because their Divine Plea applies a 50%- healing debuff then I will channel Hymn of Hope for them because without their Hastey heals due to Judgements of the Pure and the nice absorb mastery to all of your heals keep the tank up as long as they pick a safe spot while casting. Without them I'd be a bored Discipline Priest but with them I'm able to know when the tank is in trouble and pop a Pain Suppression or take over tank healing because crits give them -10% physical damage taken.

As far as complaints about priests being OP, in a way yes because a shield is basically another form of a HoT and adds life to players while it is not affected by MS and is a basically instant guaranteed 10-14k heal guaranteed. (All while not including the glyph which adds another 2-4k raw healing).

What I mean is learn to play as a team and you will enjoy your class more. If another healing class is OP then they make your job easier and in time they will be nerfed. Before the Healing Priest hotfix that gave priests insane mana regeneration Heroic dungeons were slightly difficult when everyone stayed at 50% and I had to use all my mana regeneration CDs just to end the fight at exactly 2% mana thanks to low dps in LFD tool cheating the system.

If you want to play the highest HPS class I suggest you roll a more AoE heal oriented class. All healers are support classes to one another but that does not mean one is less than another. Btw I always secretly wanted to be a Holy Paladin only to stack intellect but I refused because Beacon of Light is brainless/free healing. As a Discipline Priest I can now be a mana tank finally!
85 Human Paladin
2985
12/20/2010 8:25 AMPosted by Teriz


I don't like the stealth nerf, however. Blizzard should've consulted the community first before nerfing ToR and LoD, or at least warned us that the changes were coming. I noticed the changes last Tuesday before there was even a Blue post on this and I assumed it was a bug. Not cool, Blizzard.


As if the Paladin community wouldn't have whined like spoiled children if blizzard had told them the nerf was coming...


NO ONE likes being nerfed. Anyone of any other class would "whine" like a "spoiled child" if they were being nerfed. A nerf is one thing, a stealth nerf is entirely another.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
3665
Not being able to use HL to build holy power sucks but a lot of the times I'm using Divine Light on the tank anyway. All that means is you'll almost never heal your tank with HL unless damage is stupid low or IoL procs.

I'm more peeved about the LoD change. It was OP because 50% of heals were transfering to the beacon, thus healing the tank for a huge chunk. All Blizzard needed to do was remove the transfer effect and it would of been fine.

With the -40% nerf to LoD, it now heals for about 5-6k with 3 stacks of holy power. When everyone is at 100k+ health, that barely moves their health bars. There aren't many situations where I would use LoD over WoG unless I know I can hit all 5 targets. As a 31 point talent, this skill is very underwhelming.

Another problem is I find myself holy power starved a lot. HS is a very slow way to build holy power if I'm not spamming my mana intensive heals on the tank. And meleeing with Crusader Strike is very situational. If our judgments gave holy power as well (akin to how does with ret), I would say we're in a pretty good place.

Honestly though, the nerfs aren't that bad. Don't fret... just be smart about using your CD's and use them often! =]
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