Holy Paladin nerfs?

85 Night Elf Priest
5910
Please do not nerf paladins please. Please, my guild needs healers, and druids and paladins are the only ones in my guild who heal any more most of the shamans and priest play other classes now.
90 Draenei Shaman
8150
This thread continues to baffle me when paladins max throughput is still best in game over the length of any raid encounter.... what exactly are you guys wanting?!? I must be missing something here, best healer class in game, yet ur broken... wat??
85 Night Elf Priest
5910
Please do not nerf paladins please. Please, my guild needs healers, and druids and paladins are the only ones in my guild who heal any more most of the shamans and priest play other classes now.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
7260
01/02/2011 10:18 AMPosted by Qylere
I really only miss sacred shield. The mastery shield doesnt do it. Mana effiency is a problem? Learn to heal differently. We have a free heal and im sure blizz intended us to use it a full power, which means we have to prioritze again and be smart again. Use what gets you holy power and healing rolls fine. Go stand next to the tank, right where we plate wearers are supposed to be. Imo, im glad healing isnt just FoL anymore. Happy new years everyone


FoL? Back to grade school for you kiddo. We've been spamming Holy Light for years now.
I'm rockin a pretty steady 5-7k HPS on most dungeon encounters...i have no complaints...
85 Blood Elf Paladin
7260
01/02/2011 11:45 AMPosted by Asculapius
I'm rockin a pretty steady 5-7k HPS on most dungeon encounters...i have no complaints...


/facepalm Yeah... We can heal stuff still. Yes... we are having to watch our mana closer than Bill Clinton at a cankles convention. What most of us are upset about is how for one glorious week we had options. We could truly raid heal or tank heal and do either decently. Our 31 pt talent was worth something. We had a steady flow of holy power without having to spec into pvp talents (something Zarhym suggested- proof the guy's got no clue about holydins). For that one week, we were fun.The first time holy paladins have been fun in years. We were elated to do more than spam holy light. The stealthnerf took all that away. We're just Holy Light spammers for the most part. Now we just shock on cd... or use a dps talent (crusader strike) to get holy power to cast an abysmal Word of Glory (yeah... a baseline paladin talent's better than LoD- our 31 pt talent... f^&$ed up isn't it?) or if you really wanna waste your holy power to get it to stop blinking, you LoD and watch 5 ppl's health bars go up 4%. I guess in a way we're a little bit more than Holy Light spammers, but after all the hype Blizz made about how we'd be fun and have a real toolbox, I'm left with buyers remorse. They delivered for one week, then nerfed us into oblivion with the rest of the healers. Currently, there's little challenge in content (the strategies are simple enough to understand), simply the ulcer-making grief of knowing your tank will die 2-4 minutes before he does and that there's nothing you can do about it, because your heals are too weak, your mana regen talents set you farther back in mana than when you started, and you can't risk throwing a Divine Light or a Flash of Light because that sets you back 9% of your mana pool- thus making your tank die faster.
You've done more than make mana a priority Blizzard. You've made it a noose around our necks as we balance on the precipice.

Edit for spelling error.
Edited by Snerus on 1/2/2011 12:04 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10515
i dont have any either, i did before i had to relearn the mechanics, but now i love it. it doesnt mean i stay at 80% mana when there is no CC....because I dont.

fact, you only perform as good as the group you are in.

also, get spirit, its your friend.
65 Blood Elf Death Knight
10430
...
Edited by Xep on 1/2/2011 12:08 PM PST
65 Blood Elf Death Knight
10430
derp
85 Blood Elf Paladin
7260
01/02/2011 12:03 PMPosted by Sikmode
i dont have any either, i did before i had to relearn the mechanics, but now i love it. it doesnt mean i stay at 80% mana when there is no CC....because I dont.

fact, you only perform as good as the group you are in.

also, get spirit, its your friend.


Just under 2k spirit. Until I'm regenning 5-6k mana every 2 seconds, I'm going to oom faster than an ethiopian chasing a doughnut down a hill. Even at 9k mp5- 1/2 of how much it costs to throw a Divine Light or Flash of Light, Your mana would drop faster than a dress on prom night.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10515
So, if you are using crusader strike to gain HP, then why are you speced into improved judgments? Put those points into paragon or blessed life.

Edit, not saying that you are, just the context from the above post makes it seem you do. Whether you do or dont CS, its just my opinion, that getting DP to a 40 seconds CD, and using it every CD, is worth more than 20 yard, when you already get 10 from enlightened judgements.
Edited by Sikmode on 1/2/2011 12:18 PM PST
85 Blood Elf Paladin
7260
01/02/2011 12:15 PMPosted by Sikmode
So, if you are using crusader strike to gain HP, then why are you speced into improved judgments? Put those points into paragon or blessed life.

Edit, not saying that you are, just the context from the above post makes it seem you do. Whether you do or dont CS, its just my opinion, that getting DP to a 40 seconds CD, and using it every CD, is worth more than 20 yard, when you already get 10 from enlightened judgements.


I don't CS. I'm not a dps. My spec is the currently accepted best raiding spec. Getting away from myself, and moving to holydins in general, my previous statements throughout the last month or more have still rang true. Something's going to have to give, and judging from Blizz's lack of response to any real issues stated, I'm going to predict it'll take them losing some money.
90 Human Paladin
0
OK I read some of this, and I have this to stay to Blizzard.

There is a problem with this new intent of yours to basically make running out of the mana the new focul point of challenge in Catacylysm. What it does is basically make it seem it is the fault of the healer everytime a wipe occurs. It has nothing to do with the fact the dps are getting attacked by adds, or they aren't watching where their standing, ect...

For example, the dps in my group run around attacking adds on their own, taking huge amounts of damage all over the place and I'm forced to spam everything my arsenal just to keep them alive till I go OOM. Then i have to listen to these stupid comments like "mana goes so fast in CATA"

It's not fair to healers having the entire group dependent on their mana bars yet making that mana bar completely dependent on how at least 5 other people play. In theory i agree with you - and I actually like the new healing model over the last one - but a lot of healers are going to quit playing because they will get sick of taking the blame everytime something goes wrong.

This is how you need to fix this. First - allow for in-combat raises, so foolhardly dps can die and then be raised later to finish off the fight. Make it to where a well played healer and tank can outlast their opponent on their own, albeit may take a very long time, or at the very least stalemate the fight and stay alive. Do not turn fights into dps races to where the healer has to stress at keeping them all alive else it means a wipe. This will make fights longer, more skill-based, and a lot more fun.

Basically if your intent is to make success more dependent on competent healers and tanks, which is what it seems - then you need to give them something in return.

Make it to where DPS are just there to make a fight shorter, but make it to where they are not nessassary for survival. If you make this change, and allow for a well played tank and healer to actually thrive despite the DPS, you will see these two classes become more played - and you won't see the huge over-abundance of DPS classes everywhere because they never feel the stress of winning or losing on their shoulders.
Edited by Brotherdale on 1/2/2011 12:51 PM PST
85 Draenei Shaman
6645
I love how the only one's who feel 'healing is fine' are paladins. A few druids, shamans, and priests may say that now and again, but they are usually not in raid content yet.

I am glad they haven't locked the thread. They have received some flack for locking or even deleting threads discussing legitimate issues in the game before. Which ultimately makes them look immature, unprofessional, scared of dissent, and tyrannical. There are probably 2 real reasons they haven't locked it. They want to see the comments and monitor the issue or the people with the authority to shut it down are on vacation.

If a change is coming, it will probably be a while. Given the comments about 'healing working as intended' I expect them to follow their WotLK model. Keep it tough for a while then a give out a steady flow of a content nerfs so that the end game is more accessible to casual players.

I do find it disappointing that changes like this don't appear to get much testing. You would think that they would get 25 blizz staffers to get in a raid and test this stuff out with a variety of item levels to see how things work - maybe the lack of balance among the healers is an aberration but it does come across as if this was not sufficiently tested before release.

A pure crystal ball guestimate as to when we will see some meaningful changes that address the issues healers are having right now: Late February at the earliest.
85 Troll Shaman
7550
I am still having concerns about the efficiency and throughput of holy paladins tbh. I am not saying they are ridiculously Op or anything like that, but they are still well above all other healers currently. holy priests being behind them only slightly, but the real problem here is druid and shaman healing.

While we all know that druid and shaman healing is really subpar compared to holy healers( priest and paladin) I don't yet know if druids and shamans should get a buff or if paladins and priests should get a nerf. My thought on it is that paladins should be brought down slightly and druids and shamans should be brought up to match holy priest heals.

My biggest concern here is paladins efficiency via throughput. which mainly stems from holy light, beacon of light, and protector of the innocent combo. While granted paladins might be a bit lacking in the AoE department still(light of dawn is still a great tool to be used every CD no one can argue with that), I feel this combo more then makes up for it. Average hit with holy light is about 9k, add 4.5k from beacon and another 4.5k from protector and you get a 18k non crit heal that costs 2k mana. No other healer currently has this amount of healing power tacked on to there efficient heal.

My next concern would be free healing. Light of dawn and word of glory not only heal for competitive amounts compared to other healing spells, but they are free. Word of glory averaging 17.5k and flash of light averaging 24.7k. WoG is free and instant making it a great way to get a tank back up in health in a sticky situation. FoL then WoG for average non crit of 42.2k plus a min of 10% from mastery = 46.42k on one target for the cost of one flash heal is pretty nice. as a shaman I would Riptide-healingsurgex2(HS=FoL) and hope for a crit on one or 2 of the HS's for a return of 1700 mana on a 5.5k spell

Another concern I have is divine plea. Why is there a 50% reduction in healing on this spell....glyphed it gives 15% mana back over 10 seconds with a 2 min CD. thats 15k mana every 2 mins or 625 MP5. Assuming you have 100k mana. Which as a paladin you should be stacking int. seal of insight is 225% base mana over the same amount of time. Average of 24k base mana, thats 54k mana returned in 2 minutes or 1500 Mp5( includes cost of judgement). divine plea works the same way as hymn of hope, that is no healing from you while active, My paladin healers will warn me when they divine plea, so I know to be healing more, while they pop it then judge and go into melee to proc insight while its active. So all this really does is serve to reduce my efficiency by making me heal for more while increasing theres. the reduction is not a good design and should be taken out. the glyph should be changed to reduce the Cd by 30 seconds instead of more mana. making it less MP5 but also not having to worry about the 50% debuff while active. or make the glyph remove the debuff, which would add another PvP choice for glyphs to ret and prot paladins.

Let me finish by saying that while healing still has some problems to be fixed, cataclysm is a welcome change in how we heal. I for one am very happy to be done with the wrath model of healing.

85 Blood Elf Paladin
3410
So i realized my holy light was not generating holy power when healing my beaconed target in heroics. so i checked my spec and i have tower of radiance maxed. so then i figured might as well submit a ticket. 2 days later i get a reply in mail saying to go to the forums to fix my issue wha tis going on with my talent and hl not generating holy power?
85 Troll Shaman
7550
01/02/2011 2:49 PMPosted by Syreth
So i realized my holy light was not generating holy power when healing my beaconed target in heroics. so i checked my spec and i have tower of radiance maxed. so then i figured might as well submit a ticket. 2 days later i get a reply in mail saying to go to the forums to fix my issue wha tis going on with my talent and hl not generating holy power?



Read the talent.
85 Tauren Druid
6455
nerf paladins or buff other healing spec simple as that. . .The game should be balanced.
90 Human Paladin
7690
Honestly I don’t see what all this fuss is about. I play a holy paladin and I was a little disappointed with the hot fix but if there’s one thing I've learned it to roll with the punches.
I have to ask how many of the healers QQing in this thread actually raid regularly. I raid 10 mans with a resto druid and a holy priest. On an average 7-9 min boss attempt I will almost always top HPS pulling 9.5 - 12k HPS. The resto druid can definitely come close to rivaling my output however I notice the priest lags behind a lot only out putting around 5.5. - 8.5k HPS, this is probably due to the player however I'm not going to pretend to know anything about holy priests.
I'm new to holy this xpack and from what I've read on this thread and EJ I've have been healing quite different from "just ##*#ing hit LoD every time it's up because it's output with beacon is lolololololololol". Because we have a resto druid and holy priest I try to stay focused on the tanks as much as possible. Because of this mentality and my general lack of reserch (><) I almost never use LoD. I use WoG on the tanks a lot, but this is the part where I don't understand the QQing I still HL the tanks a lot and obvi HS every time it's up. I only resort to using DL when I need to (which tends to be a lot in this gear). When lots of raid heaing is needed I pop HR and HL spam the raid but I still tend to stay away from LoD. On a general boss attempt my top three healing spells tend to look like this
  • 1 DL
  • 2 Beacon
  • 3 Holy light/PoI(depends)

  • So to conclude the main reason I don't understand all the QQing is because I'm healing very differently from the "the only way holy pallys are efficient" yet I'm still topping meters and downing bosses. My advice would have to be trying not to a healing model that works for everything all time because that's a little OP and will be nerfed. Instead think about what your doing and who your healing keeping in mind group comp and the encounter its self. If you actually know what your doing and have a handle on your class you should be okay what ever class/spec you are.

    . . . and yes holy might be still be a little imba but shhhhhhhhhhhh. . .
    85 Blood Elf Paladin
    7260
    01/02/2011 3:15 PMPosted by Druidcoin
    nerf paladins or buff other healing spec simple as that. . .The game should be balanced.

    To nerf holydins again would be a kick in the teeth.
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