Holy Paladin nerfs?

85 Human Paladin
6385
Posted by Maugris
It wasn't the your toons level that was in question, it was your cata raid experience. Thank your for the compliment, buddy! I knew that I wasn't a moron, but I didn't realize that I was "supra intelligent". Good show!


Again, level and raid experience has nothing to do with boycotting the LFD queue as a healer.

...and going for the intentionally misspelled word... really?

I take it back, you are not supra intelligent. You sir, are supra-derpra intelligent.
Community Manager
I guess GC shirked his forum responsibilities =(


He's not shirking anything. Who do you think we talk to in order to get more information? He's keeping an eye on things and we're making sure we get it to you.
85 Human Paladin
6120
Edited to kill a double post
Edited by Winterborn on 12/15/2010 11:27 AM PST
85 Blood Elf Paladin
7260
Posted by Nethaera
I apologize for the delay in answers. I was not attempting to avoid questions here. I have a bit more information for you:



It is intended that Protector of the Innocent and Light of Dawn transfer healing through Beacon of Light. Furthermore, we didn’t feel that changing either of those would have fixed the problem. When we looked at the numbers, paladins were getting far more Holy Power from Holy Light using Tower of Radiance than we had predicted they would. This wasn’t a problem of paladins topping healing meters or anything like that. The problem was that paladins could heal much more efficiently than other healers. Healers of equal skill should run out of mana at about the same time. In this situation, we didn’t want to buff everyone else to the paladin level, because we think the experience of priest, druid and shaman healers is playing out as we intended. (But we will keep monitoring things.) We understand some healers still don’t feel that they have enough mana to be able to do their jobs and we understand the design has changed somewhat from the Wrath of the Lich King healing model. However, the heroic dungeons are intended to be challenging. Moreover, the Cataclysm expansion has only been live for a week. Players are still improving their gear, learning the boss fights and getting familiar with the new healing philosophy.


1. Using the mechanics you gave us, we found the best way to heal(we became smarter healers). Divine Light and Flash of Light costs are too high to be used consistently. You may say you don't intend for us to use these spells that much. To this I say that these two spells along with holy shock(a terribad heal if i ever saw one) are our only effective means by which to gain holy power. You have broken our class mechanics, and you just come back here and say that's just the way it is?
2. You say you want healing to similar to how the priests, shamans, and druids have it? Take off the Mortal Strike of our Divine Plea. Give us effective raid heals. I mean effective ones... not something that heals for 500 a tick. I want a chain heal as well. I wanna negate the majority of a tanks damage through a shield. I want to have hots. In return, give them our mana regeneration, and we'll call it fair.
3. Heroic dungeons are meant to be a challenge, not something that gives us high blood pressure. You've confused the terms hard and challenging.
4. There are many of us thatwere in full 346 gar three or four days into the expac. Though it's been a week, we've been getting used to the play style for a while now. The issue isn't getting used to it. The issue is you keep changing it to make us jump through more and more hoops to just be on par with others. Holy Paladins have terrible mana regeneration and mana regeneration abilities with horrible consequences attached to them. The way we were able to make up for this difference in mana regeneration was our "free" heals that you based us around this time. You have nerfed the only viable and reliable way to gain holy power, shoved it up our... well I shan't say, and told us to learn the fight mechanics. You're out of touch with your player base here, and it's becoming more and more evident.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
9155
Posted by Nethaera
I apologize for the delay in answers. I was not attempting to avoid questions here. I have a bit more information for you:



It is intended that Protector of the Innocent and Light of Dawn transfer healing through Beacon of Light. Furthermore, we didn’t feel that changing either of those would have fixed the problem. When we looked at the numbers, paladins were getting far more Holy Power from Holy Light using Tower of Radiance than we had predicted they would. This wasn’t a problem of paladins topping healing meters or anything like that. The problem was that paladins could heal much more efficiently than other healers. Healers of equal skill should run out of mana at about the same time. In this situation, we didn’t want to buff everyone else to the paladin level, because we think the experience of priest, druid and shaman healers is playing out as we intended. (But we will keep monitoring things.) We understand some healers still don’t feel that they have enough mana to be able to do their jobs and we understand the design has changed somewhat from the Wrath of the Lich King healing model. However, the heroic dungeons are intended to be challenging. Moreover, the Cataclysm expansion has only been live for a week. Players are still improving their gear, learning the boss fights and getting familiar with the new healing philosophy.


Can you guys just get rid of tower of radiance all together? Replace it with a +5% crit talent, that be more useful than ToR in its current state. Unless the new idea is, you spend a lot mana on a tank your not focusing on so you get a free heal... yeah.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
7235
Posted by Nethaera
I guess GC shirked his forum responsibilities =(




He's not shirking anything. Who do you think we talk to in order to get more information? He's keeping an eye on things and we're making sure we get it to you.


This is why this would be a perfect time for a Class Q&A or a Twitter Dev chat!!

WTB!!
85 Human Paladin
6120
Posted by Nethaera
I guess GC shirked his forum responsibilities =(




He's not shirking anything. Who do you think we talk to in order to get more information? He's keeping an eye on things and we're making sure we get it to you.


I'd love to know what he thinks of all of this. Que times, people quitting healing roles to go dps or quitting altogether. You guys catered to casuals for 3 years. How is any of this going to make WoW successful? Its going to cost players due to frustration. The LFD system isn't going to work in a vanilla must CC all setting. And vanilla WoW didn't net you guys 8 million or so players. BC near the end and Wrath did. If vanilla was so awesome why didn't they play then?
85 Blood Elf Paladin
4580
Posted by Nethaera
I guess GC shirked his forum responsibilities =(


He's not shirking anything. Who do you think we talk to in order to get more information? He's keeping an eye on things and we're making sure we get it to you.


If he is keeping an eye on things, any response to upping the % proc of daybreak, or maybe reducing the 50% redux on divine plea?

Also how fast did you expect Paladin's to generate HP?

1 every 6 seconds,
2 every 6 seconds?
3 every 6 seconds?
3 every 12 seconds?
85 Worgen Priest
1760
Oh my god people. I am a casual player and am not having any problems healing. I'm a priest ( Apparently the worse healer) And I can heal heroics just fine. What are you guys doing wrong?
90 Human Paladin
13800
12/15/2010 11:19 AMPosted by Winterborn
Casual is joe blow, he's knows how to heal, he doesn't read EJ but he's learned how to keep people up in instances and manage his mana. He works jobs and doesn't have the time or the patience to relearn this system. He probably came in at the end of BC to Wrath or Wrath all together and those systems are what joe blow knows as healing. He's frustrated right now because as hard as he's trying groups are dying and or kicking him out and he can't figure out what he's doing is wrong. He gets frustrated and either rerolls something else or decides he has better things to do than play this game he can't spend hours to relearn for various reasons and quits. THAT is a casual in short. And THAT is the majority of players.


Amen to that. This describes almost our entire guild, who work and have families, and play for fun. Suddenly, it's no longer fun and if those of us who heal stop doing so, then the whole guild suffers (and in the case of randoms, to a small extent the whole battlegroup).

I know I don't have time to sit and experiment with mechanics when they change; I read one or two fora and go from there, so when something changes in a big way without any warning, it'll take me (and my guild) that much longer to recover. I mostly play Healadin and DK tank. Both of those mechanics changed drastically with patch 4.0, and it's a steep learning curve when you aren't a top-tier player.

And doing changes without warning so we fail in our instances? That's just cruel.

[GryphonMD]
85 Human Priest
3585




2. You say you want healing to similar to how the priests, shamans, and druids have it? Take off the Mortal Strike of our Divine Plea. Give us effective raid heals. I mean effective ones... not something that heals for 500 a tick. I want a chain heal as well. I wanna negate the majority of a tanks damage through a shield. I want to have hots. In return, give them our mana regeneration, and we'll call it fair.







This is just QQ. I mean really, asking for everyone's abilities? this is why people think paladins are not happy unless they are massively OP. It is also completely obvious that you have no idea how other classes work. Negate most of a tanks damage through shields? LOL.
Edited by Vidomina on 12/15/2010 11:30 AM PST
85 Human Paladin
11370
Posted by Nethaera
I apologize for the delay in answers. I was not attempting to avoid questions here. I have a bit more information for you:

It is intended that Protector of the Innocent and Light of Dawn transfer healing through Beacon of Light. Furthermore, we didn’t feel that changing either of those would have fixed the problem. When we looked at the numbers, paladins were getting far more Holy Power from Holy Light using Tower of Radiance than we had predicted they would. This wasn’t a problem of paladins topping healing meters or anything like that. The problem was that paladins could heal much more efficiently than other healers. Healers of equal skill should run out of mana at about the same time. In this situation, we didn’t want to buff everyone else to the paladin level, because we think the experience of priest, druid and shaman healers is playing out as we intended. (But we will keep monitoring things.) We understand some healers still don’t feel that they have enough mana to be able to do their jobs and we understand the design has changed somewhat from the Wrath of the Lich King healing model. However, the heroic dungeons are intended to be challenging. Moreover, the Cataclysm expansion has only been live for a week. Players are still improving their gear, learning the boss fights and getting familiar with the new healing philosophy.


Thanks for your feedback Nethaera. I for one have no issues with the changes yesterday although I dont feel that what was done is going to fix the issue at hand. Now, I just use CS, judge more and still end fights with full mana (5 mans). I feel though that the entire HP concept is broken now just when people were getting into the grove of the new mechanic. Its the 3rd radical playstyle change in a month. Cant be good for the whole of the player base.
85 Tauren Paladin
4960
Well tbh I never used that LoD strategy >_>;; I didn't think about it. I was bummed about the HL issue, but it didn't affect my playstyle much at all since I'm playing the way they say it was intended, so to me this wasn't a big change, but to each his/her own.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
3060
Oh absolutely PvE is better from wotlk, but i was carrying the other healers and now that im nerfed, what are we suppose to tell the other healers, sorry your not good enough get out? If thats the attitude you're going to see a lot of guilds reformatting their guild ranks your lfg que is going to be up to two hours for dps. All the healers who have jobs, kids, and dont have time to research rotation, experiment, run heroics till you drop just to get one piece of gear. Also the fact that i raged and you say its not going to help blizzard change things, it shows that people are raged at their changes and maybe they might get the impression that they should look into it.
Community Manager
12/14/2010 12:09 PMPosted by Highbeams
Blizzard, you ever think maybe you needed to buff the other classes and not nerf this one? My Priest is still about as broken and unfun as it could possibly get


Just so we don't turn this into a priest vs. paladin discussion, we have already applied some adjustments to priests in some hotfixes and will be updating our hotfix listing shortly. We already acknowledged (Bashiok did) that we were aware of priests perhaps needing a slight boost. That boost has already occurred, and again, we will continue watching to see how all of these changes are working out.

85 Goblin Mage
5045
Posted by Nethaera
I apologize for the delay in answers. I was not attempting to avoid questions here. I have a bit more information for you:







It is intended that Protector of the Innocent and Light of Dawn transfer healing through Beacon of Light. Furthermore, we didn’t feel that changing either of those would have fixed the problem. When we looked at the numbers, paladins were getting far more Holy Power from Holy Light using Tower of Radiance than we had predicted they would. This wasn’t a problem of paladins topping healing meters or anything like that. The problem was that paladins could heal much more efficiently than other healers. Healers of equal skill should run out of mana at about the same time. In this situation, we didn’t want to buff everyone else to the paladin level, because we think the experience of druid and shaman healers is playing out as we intended. (But we will keep monitoring things.) We understand some healers still don’t feel that they have enough mana to be able to do their jobs and we understand the design has changed somewhat from the Wrath of the Lich King healing model. However, the heroic dungeons are intended to be challenging. Moreover, the Cataclysm expansion has only been live for a week. Players are still improving their gear, learning the boss fights and getting familiar with the new healing philosophy.


/applause

I'm thankful that Blizzard gets this, and I hope you don't cave to QQ.
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