Holy Paladin nerfs?

85 Blood Elf Paladin
6085
Just in time for Season 9! Amazing!
81 Undead Warrior
2955
this fix has effectively ruined healing heroics for the strong majority of HPallys who MUST farm heroics.
1 Night Elf Priest
0
I don't understand is the, they are nerfing a rotation that had been tested for weeks or months on beta. Why put out a nerf "now?"

All of these spells have been tested, debated, logged, and talked about for weeks. There's no secret.

That's just plain bad customer service.

90 Human Paladin
14150
I as a Holy Paladin kinda upset they didn't mention this in the hotfixes i jumped into a heroic for my daily valor points after 1 wipe cause the tank decided to pull without cc... lol got a instant boot from grp 2nd tank comes in i do my normal healing with Holy Light to gain Holy Power * to help with my mana to heal the rest of the grp that just sit in aoe or pull random aggro... now apparenlty we r suppose to use Divine Light and Flash of light on the tank to gain holy power? oh wait both of those cost almost 7-8k mana per cast..... so u don't want us to use Holy Light? that heals less than anything we got on the board? I forone used Divne Light / Flash on bad cases thus the arcane orbs in H.Vortex Pinn or Divine Light when tank is taking alot of dmg or i fall behind when healing the dps. But thanks Blizzard i think your tryin to get rid of Paladins
85 Goblin Mage
2765
lol horrible bandaid fixes are horrible.

Man the devs have gotten really bad. There needs to be some serious firing going on over there...

And also, how about some more communication between players and devs so were not standing around saying wtf is going on?

85 Blood Elf Paladin
6765
Typical Ninja Nerf .....Can you atleast like tell us next time? kthnxbye
81 Goblin Warlock
2830
You hotfix this change with no change to talent text, no patch notes, just a random forum reply to let us know? Seriously? That's a pretty pathetic move, Blizz.

Also, how exactly would you like us to heal all the AOE damage in Heroics now? Light of Dawn was an amazing tool used right, but now in order to build it up it is gonna use way more mana than it should.

This is a perfect example of not thinking anything through.

OMG My foot hurts. Cut off the leg!
85 Human Paladin
2655
12/14/2010 1:37 PMPosted by Nethaera
These hotfixes were intentional and we wanted to share more information about the "why" for you all here:

Mana is supposed to matter for healers, and in the case of Holy paladins, that just wasn’t happening. We were seeing raid groups attempting to learn new bosses where the other healers were out of mana while the paladins were still at 90% of mana. We also thought the experience of paladins healing harder heroic dungeons was inconsistent with that of other healers, or our design intent. We thought it was only a matter of time before groups started going out of their way to stack paladins for raids or recruit them for dungeon runs, which of course is not our intent. For this reason, we thought it was important to address this point now rather than sitting on it until a future patch.

The main culprit for the increased paladin efficiency this was Holy Power from Tower of Radiance. We were seeing a strategy develop where paladins would cast Holy Light on a Beaconed tank, and then cast Light of Dawn on the raid (and use very few other spells). This strategy was remarkably successful considering how simple it is. The Holy Power-based heals are supposed to be an important component of the paladin kit, but because Holy Light is designed to be super efficient, the overall strategy was too efficient. The intent of Tower of Radiance was to make directly healing a Beacon of Light target less punitive, but instead it was becoming the only smart way to play. You can still generate Holy Power by using Flash of Light or Divine Light on a Beaconed target, or through a variety of other ways. Remember, overall it isn’t balanced if paladins are just as mana efficient as other healers and have several mana-free spells.

Light of Dawn was adjusted because it was completely eclipsing Word of Glory. We lowered the healing of Word of Glory late in development, but also redesigned Light of Dawn. They had fallen out of sync, and Light of Dawn was just too good.


Nethaera, couldn't this have been avoided by not changing LoD to use Holy Power? During beta LoD had a longish(in raid damage context) cooldown and a higher target limit. The removal of the CD is what created this issue.

Why can't it just be reverted to that model, rather than eliminating a source of HP for WoG blasts on a tank. Why not institute a cooldown - say 15 seconds - into LoD again?

While this is a nerf to our AoE healing ability and mana efficiency(a warranted concern), I feel it is a far more significant nerf to our single target healing when it matters: burst damage.
Edited by Daroller on 12/14/2010 2:17 PM PST
85 Worgen Priest
3065
To be honest it's a little sad to see the healing community cannibalizing itself over these changes. When one type of healer gets nerfed, we should all understand and try to help. Yeah there were jerk paladins doing the, "It's fine, l2p" shpeel over the last week, but that doesn't make this nerf warranted. Instead of dancing on paladin healing's grave, we should be asking why they didn't help other classes be brought into line with the prior paladin healing experience. Going, "ha ha." is just going to divide the issue even more.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
9040
Wow, seriously... This is intentional? I was hoping it was a bug...

I took a lil break before Cata and when I reactivated my account I really hated paladin heals... And I have other 5 80s that I hated... Paladin heals were the only class I really stickied...

Now, this changes really BLOW... It was seriously crappy to start with (I can't hardly finish a PUG if no one is CCing) and this is a kick on the nuts...

I don't know... Maybe I'm in the wrong game now...
90 Human Paladin
10440
On the Omnitron Council last night, I used Holy Light 9 times over a 6 minute, 20 second fight.

Divine Light was 32% of my healing, and Beacon was 23.7%, and my holy power generation was just fine.

In 5-mans this morning, I'm now struggling a bit, while over-gearing by an entire 13 item level tier.

I don't understand a change that is going to make heroics more difficult than a raid encounter, for me, when there's a bug that would probably bring us in line if fixed (PotI).
Edited by Trexokor on 12/14/2010 2:16 PM PST
85 Blood Elf Paladin
4260
I don't know about other people but I've never once finished a Heroic, Baradin Hold etc at anything > 10% mana and neither have the other healing classes I've played with. We're just as mana starved as any other class be it in a raid or dungeon environment and this change only compounds that problem even further.

12/14/2010 1:37 PMPosted by Nethaera

The main culprit for the increased paladin efficiency this was Holy Power from Tower of Radiance. We were seeing a strategy develop where paladins would cast Holy Light on a Beaconed tank, and then cast Light of Dawn on the raid (and use very few other spells). This strategy was remarkably successful considering how simple it is. The Holy Power-based heals are supposed to be an important component of the paladin kit, but because Holy Light is designed to be super efficient, the overall strategy was too efficient. The intent of Tower of Radiance was to make directly healing a Beacon of Light target less punitive, but instead it was becoming the only smart way to play. You can still generate Holy Power by using Flash of Light or Divine Light on a Beaconed target, or through a variety of other ways. Remember, overall it isn’t balanced if paladins are just as mana efficient as other healers and have several mana-free spells.


I'm not sure this is really a correct assessment of the situation. The reason you were seeing the efficient use of Holy Power was due to the fact that Light of Dawn was procing Beacon of Light which is where the problem lies. The problem was not in us using Holy Light to generate Holy Power or even using our Holy Power to throw out a Light of Dawn as both of those tactics are key pieces to surviving many encounters in Cataclysm Heroics.

12/14/2010 1:37 PMPosted by Nethaera

Light of Dawn was adjusted because it was completely eclipsing Word of Glory. We lowered the healing of Word of Glory late in development, but also redesigned Light of Dawn. They had fallen out of sync, and Light of Dawn was just too good.


Again not due to Light of Dawn itself but the procing of Beacon of Light which skews the numbers immensely. The nerf to Light of Dawn seems a bit much given the nature of so many AOE fights in Cataclysm where we rely on it to keep our party up and our only other option is Holy Radiance which is a complete waste of 10k mana imo.

I honestly hope the Blizzard designers sit down to rethink this one and have another go over the data to look more closely at it as right now you're basically pushing Paladins out of their healing roles and sidelining us. We're of no use to any heroic dungeon group or an AOE heavy raid when we're throwing a 5k Light of Dawn for 3 Holy Power and hurling expensive heals just to generate that disappointment.
Edited by Raithios on 12/14/2010 2:17 PM PST
85 Human Paladin
0
Meh... I hated going OOM on trash until I discovered how quickly I could get HP and use LoD mana-guilt-free. I stopped using Word of Glory completely and thought that was strange but didn't crunch the numbers to see if it was better for the tank. I'm not terribly surprised at the LoD nerf so WoG is definitely better on a single target now. But the tower of radiance change is gonna mess with the playstyle quite a bit.

Considering the really long cooldown on Holy Radiance and it's massive mana cost I'm very dissappointed at the nerf in LoD frequency. Plus no more HL on the Beacon really brings us back to WotLK healing style, spamming HL on the non-Beacons and tossing out a big heal on the tank when needed. This really downplays the Holy Power system quite a bit which was fun working towards that free AOE heal. Again, it's going to be too weak and infrequent to matter, so we'll be back to single target healing for any meaningful effect.

Tower and LoD use wasn't enough to keep a tank alive in my gear. I had to work in Shocks, Divine, and Flash to keep the tank alive while aoe healing the rest. Holy is my offspec and I don't want to be overwhelmed when I occationally have to do it. I guess I may look into tanking...
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11560
The problem was LoD and PotI transferring through Beacon. Since this wasn't changed, I can still cast 1 point LoDs for plenty of tank healing.

But I suppose I have three free talent points now? I can go pick up Denounce again so at least I don't oom in 10 casts while soloing. Only while healing.
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