Many arena shadow priests have stopped DOTing

20 Human Paladin
300
I have been reading various reports on the forums here and arena junkies about the debut of the arena season last night. And I was interested to read that many shadow priests have turned into mind spike/mind blast bots since their DOTs can be laughed off with dispels and cost too much mana.

Shadow priests are a DOT class. If it's getting to the point where many experienced shadow priests decide not to cast DOTs at all then something needs to be adjusted with the mana cost and lack of dispel protection of our DOTs.

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85 Night Elf Warrior
2895
This may be intended. Blizzard did call shadow priests bursty, so perhaps they meant to steer shadow priests away from dots to make them more bursty.

But that doesn't really make sense. It will be fixed eventually.
Likewise, Affliction warlocks are having the same problem.
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85 Dwarf Paladin
5385
You know, it's true. I fought some in the arena yesterday and I was seeing lots of mind spikes/mind blasts/SW:D while their DoTs seemed to fall off VERY often.
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85 Night Elf Rogue
4915
12/15/2010 7:09 AMPosted by Stoutfist
You know, it's true. I fought some in the arena yesterday and I was seeing lots of mind spikes/mind blasts/SW:D while their DoTs seemed to fall off VERY often.


Because their dots aren't worth keeping up when your opponent has a defensive dispel at their fingertips.

Why waste endless GCD's and 70% of your mana bar refreshing dispelled dots when you could just spam mind spike/mind blast/SW:D and be able to actually contribute for more than 1.5 minutes?
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85 Dwarf Paladin
5385
Uh... Doesn't vampiric touch kind of screw dispellers over? Also, spamming dispels is a good way to go oom as a healer nowadays.
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20 Human Paladin
300
<blockquote data-quote="15361863011"><div>Posted by Kayolyn</div>This may be intended. Blizzard did call shadow priests bursty, so perhaps they meant to steer shadow priests away from dots to make them more bursty.



</blockquote>



If that were the intent then Sin and Punishment wouldn't exist as a talent, nor would shadowy apparitions and a lot of other things that feed off our DOTs.

They clearly WANT us to cast DOTs and they want those DOTs to have *some* dispel protection. But with the mana cost for DOTs it's a mana loss in pvp to cast them when they can be dispelled more cheaply AND the sin and punishment fear puts psychic scream on DR. So we're at the point where it's better to not cast them at all.

The spec is obviously not working as intended now in pvp and needs to be adjusted.
Edited by Johayn on 12/15/2010 7:21 AM PST
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20 Human Paladin
300
12/15/2010 7:17 AMPosted by Stoutfist
Uh... Doesn't vampiric touch kind of screw dispellers over? Also, spamming dispels is a good way to go oom as a healer nowadays.


VT is a joke now- dispelling it on yourself (but not your teammate) gives a 3 second AOE fear that puts other fears on DR. Basically it's a free fear ward for the other team.
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90 Human Warlock
17825
Likewise, Affliction warlocks are having the same problem.

There are people out there finding pvp sucess with affliction spec without using DoTs? I find that very suprising and more then a little hard to believe. My DD spells dont seem to do anywhere near enough damage on their own to make that any sort of a viable option.
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85 Human Priest
4730
Posted by Johayn
[quote="null"]15364262756




VT is a joke now- dispelling it on yourself (but not your teammate) gives a 3 second AOE fear that puts other fears on DR. Basically it's a free fear ward for the other team.[/quote]


it's an aoe horror. it puts our horror on DR. still, you're right. i'd gladly take a 3 sec horror than full dot dmg.
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20 Human Paladin
300
Posted by Lyssah


it's an aoe horror. it puts our horror on DR.


I haven't confirmed this myself (got other toons to level to 85) but I've read a number of reports that it was putting psychic scream on DR. Hopefully that was fixed.
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85 Human Priest
4730
<blockquote data-quote="15361263363"><div>Posted by Lyssah</div>



it's an aoe horror. it puts our horror on DR. </blockquote>



I haven't confirmed this myself (got other toons to level to 85) but I've read a number of reports that it was putting psychic scream on DR. Hopefully that was fixed.



to be fair, i haven't tested it either. but i know it's supposed to be a horror effect. can never tell with blizzard tho
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85 Human Priest
4730
Posted by Môradim
spriest dots *should* tick for good amounts. making VT/DP/SWP weak kinda makes no sense.



affliction locks, same reason



wish everyone thought like you, but that's not the case. when they do tick for good amounts, classes that can't dispel/wipe complain. sometimes classes that can wipe still complain. (lookin at you mages with your block AND mage armor) but i'm satisfied. 3x mindspike + instant (almost guaranteed crit) mindblast is the result of both, that complaining, and quick-kill adds. it both does more damage, and consumes less mana in the time frame it takes to get our mastery up, stack archangel, and cast those dots.
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85 Night Elf Druid
9535
Posted by Môradim
spriest dots *should* tick for good amounts. making VT/DP/SWP weak kinda makes no sense.



affliction locks, same reason
It's not that spriest dots are weak damage-wise, it's that they're just completely negated by a dispeller. Dotting takes a lot more mana than dispelling, so all you have to do is dispel their dots and they'll run OOM faster than you while doing no damage.

VT's dispel mechanic not working properly (and being on DR, in the first place) needs to be fixed.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
11995
Dots just cost too much period. Shadow is having mana trouble in PvE on multi-dot/AoE situations compared to other classes and in PvP defensive dispel is too powerful in relation to the mana cost of dots.
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85 Orc Warrior
4400
Shadow priests are a class


wat
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3070
Uh... Doesn't vampiric touch kind of screw dispellers over?


You eat a small horror so you just make sure to top people off before dispelling.

Also, spamming dispels is a good way to go oom as a healer nowadays.


Healing makes you go oom nowadays.

A dispel is still cheaper than healing through the damage. You don't blindly spam but you don't let fresh dots remain up either.
Edited by Lizaminelli on 12/15/2010 2:42 PM PST
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85 Undead Mage
4650
shadow priests arent really a pure dot class anymore. it used to be similar to affliction, but they now have better direct damage abilities. that doesn't mean their DoTs should be so weak (in many ways like mana cost and dispels).
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DoTs are ridiculously expensive, for both PvE and PvP. There's not really an option to forgo DoTs for PvE, so right now, we just suck it up. But it's no fun spending literally 1/6 of our mana in the first 3 seconds of a fight to put up our DoTs (well, ok, not the FIRST three seconds because of our crazy ramp up time, thanks to Empowered Shadow and Dark Evangelism, but same thing).

DoTs need to have their mana cost cut by a decent amount. And for other mana problems, here are the solutions I saw on another thread:
Bump up Masochism to around 15% max mana.
Remove the mana gains from Dark Archangel and Dispersion so we can actually use them for burst and survivability.
Increase Sin and Punishment's Shadowfiend reduction on Mind Flay crit to 20 seconds at max rank.

Now, we have only 2 mana cooldowns, and we can use DA for burst and Dispersion for defense (instead of using them on cooldown for mana).
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85 Tauren Druid
2010
For some clarification:

Sin and Punishment does indeed DR Scream. It does not go off if you dispel your teammate (so you can just spam dispels. Infinitely) and the 'horrify', if dispelled on yourself, DRs with itself as well.

The AOE isn't large enough to make a difference; you have to stand on people to get the 'aoe' effect.
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