So elemental has huge issues...

85 Draenei Shaman
9780
12/15/2010 8:36 AMPosted by Ieyasu
I found Earthquake to be useful on Magmaw parasites and Maloriak on poison phase to kill adds. Could just be me though. Earthquake has its uses 5% of the time.


This.
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11 Gnome Mage
0
12/15/2010 9:02 PMPosted by Minotaurum
Whatever happened to the knockdown effect Earthquake was supposed to have?

Seems that'd make it useful.


It has a knockdown effect on it.

The chance is so low and the price that you have to pay for that low chance is so high, though, that it's really no surprise that you didn't know that. :)


In either event, everything else aside, the mana issues NEED to be addressed.


Again, it may feel like a lot, but Elemental is already better off in this regard than almost every other caster due to the low cost of Magma and the negative mana cost of Thunderstorm. It's possible that it'll be a problem for everyone in the future, but it's apparent that they simply don't want casters to be able to AoE forever.

If your concern is that the mana cost is too high to make it worthwhile in PvP, that's another issue altogether, and is more related to the fact that the spell is trying to be a utility spell, but really is not well suited for that purpose.
Edited by Strawberry on 12/15/2010 9:46 PM PST
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85 Goblin Shaman
4990
12/15/2010 9:40 PMPosted by Strawberry

Again, it may feel like a lot, but Elemental is already better off in this regard than almost every other caster due to the low cost of Magma and the negative mana cost of Thunderstorm. It's possible that it'll be a problem for everyone in the future, but it's apparent that they simply don't want casters to be able to AoE forever.


But you're missing my point. Once elemental is OOM, we're OOM and that's it. We spam lightning bolt every other GCD. Even when we can tstorm on CD, we can get off a flame shock and that's about it...maybe refresh a totem or two.

Other casters, if they oom...

Shadow priests automatically gain 10% of their mana when they deal damage with SWD. They have repleneshment, they have dispersion, which regenerates 36% of their mana, they have dark archangel which I believe still returns mana, they have shadow fiend which returns mana and hymn which returns mana.

Mages have mana gems and evocation.

Warlocks, well I don't even have to mention warlocks.

--

And elemental shamans...we can't even get enough mana back once we're oom to keep our standard rotation. Why would you even try to defend anything related to our current mana issues.

The only classes who have some advantage while aoeing are the endless power bar classes. When I tried to aoe the adds on magmaw, I was OOM before magmaw hit 90%-95% health.
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90 Goblin Shaman
17185
I haven't had any issues with mana this expansion so far. And I top the meters, so maybe it's an issue only with you?


EDIT: Oh, I see your problem. You aren't hit capped. Get some more hit and it will be a lot better.
Edited by Urasim on 12/16/2010 9:18 AM PST
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85 Goblin Shaman
4990
12/16/2010 9:14 AMPosted by Urasim
I haven't had any issues with mana this expansion so far. And I top the meters, so maybe it's an issue only with you?


EDIT: Oh, I see your problem. You aren't hit capped. Get some more hit and it will be a lot better.


lol, you're wrong. I'm in pvp gear. I'm capped at 17.06% hit while raiding with spirit flask and spirit food so don't just assume everyone has no idea what they're doing.
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11 Gnome Mage
0
12/16/2010 5:10 AMPosted by Ruhn
Shadow priests automatically gain 10% of their mana when they deal damage with SWD. They have repleneshment, they have dispersion, which regenerates 36% of their mana, they have dark archangel which I believe still returns mana, they have shadow fiend which returns mana and hymn which returns mana.


Similarly, we gain 2% of our mana sometimes when we cast Lightning Bolt, we have clearcasting which greatly reduces our mana output to start with, and we have Thunderstorm which restores 10% of our mana every 35 seconds. Replenishment and mana regen buffs are raid-wide, so we'd have those too.

Mages have mana gems and evocation.


And they still run out of mana faster than anybody else.

Warlocks, well I don't even have to mention warlocks.


Can't deny that one. Warlocks have always had infinite mana, although it is a little more risky these days since stealing healer mana isn't always a good idea.

The only classes who have some advantage while aoeing are the endless power bar classes.


This point is what I'm worried about long-term. It seems to me that it's crazy not to just bring Death Knights, Rogues, Warriors, and Hunters for fights with AoE, since they can literally AoE forever, whereas all casters are limited to a few casts before we start having serious mana problems.

I'd be in favor of a dramatic reduction across the board of mana costs for caster AoE. The damage reduction is enough of a deterrent for us AoEing down instances. All the excessive mana cost accomplishes is to make non-mana-based classes more powerful on AoE fights.

Point I'm trying to make is that Elemental isn't so bad off in this regard relative to other casters.
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85 Night Elf Druid
7130
I don't even know why we still use finite mana on DPS casters. The only spec that can actually turn Extra Mana into Extra DPS is Arcane.


You could give elemental (or balance, or Shadow or anyone else) infinite mana, or zero mana cost DPS spells and it wouldn't effect the DPS balance at all.
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I will say elemental is a lot of fun for grinding mobs and leveling. All those big crit numbers and extra spells flying out kill mobs pretty quick, which hides any mana problems. Only in 3+ min sustained dps situations will you have mana problems, or if you try to cast a bunch of heals.

Earthquake is indeed way too expensive for what it does. Skiping that talent point is a fine choice at this time.
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83 Gnome Warrior
1220
12/15/2010 8:02 PMPosted by Noobiesnax
Yay i lasted 45 seconds this time!


teehee
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90 Draenei Shaman
9075
The vast majority of the community dislikes Earthquake. It's useless in PVE because we oom on boss fights before 90% if we aoe adds. It's useless in PVP because of obvious reasons. It should be baseline and mana cost reduced by like 50%.



We need a 31 point talent similar to shadowfury or one similar to dispersion that allows us to restore mana. Currently, once we OOM (which we do a lot in pve and pvp), we're just 100% done. We stand there and spam lightning bolts every other GCD. It's honestly terrible. I thought ranged dps wasn't supposed to have to worry about mana.



Our self-healing OOMs us in PVP quicker than anything else. Other classes who have stuns and control and survivability and greater mobility than us that don't rely on self-heals have greater self-heals than us.



And of course, as already mentioned, our mana issues...We OOM...everywhere...pve, pvp, boss fights, trash...it's terrible. We either need to have mana regen buffed BIG TIME...or we need to have a 31 point talent that restores mana similar to dispersion or evocation.



--



I think what the elemental community wants to know now is if we should stick it out and wait for it to be fixed, go resto or enh now, or just reroll.


EQ sucks. I didn't get it just for the mana cost and I hardly use it. I almost never run out of mana in ele spec in heroics on bosses. /shrugs.
Edited by Ramsei on 12/17/2010 6:58 AM PST
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90 Orc Shaman
14480
Players have voiced their concerns with Earthquake for quite some time and have still yet to receive any news on whether it is being looked at. This was perfectly fine with everything being balanced around 85 and no one 85. However I would wager we have reached a point where there are enough 85s that are not using the spell or even speccing into it for it to be a concern, even moreso because it is our 31 point talent.

I am guessing there are still plenty of players out there that don't take the game as seriously as others that are still specced into Earthquake for now. However once everyone is raiding again players will abandon their leveling specs to copy the specs of the top players on their server. Those top players' specs will be a copy of a cookie cutter spec designed by the number crunchers. If players are still specced into Earthquake, they won't be for long.

I'm sure the devs are looking into it as they are never really "finished" with any class/spec. I do wish they threw us a bone with an update. With everyone so engaged in the game right now I'm sure even more people are following forums and fan sites for any morsel of news.
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85 Draenei Shaman
4520
we are fine guys you worry to much! right? RIGHT!? OH GOD WHY AM I OOM!?!?!?
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11 Gnome Mage
0
12/18/2010 9:17 PMPosted by Minotaurum
Halve its mana cost, increase its knockdown chance to 50% per tick.

BAM! I just fixed Earthquake!


That fixes it for PvP, but in order to get that much of a CC component, it would require a cooldown, which in turn removes it from its role of reliable multi-target DPS in PvE.

This is why the spell is so complicated to fix. :)
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90 Troll Shaman
8015

I was OOM before magmaw hit 90%-95% health.


Maybe because you aren't just supposed to spam EQ for your aoe?
Also how can one QQ about running oom and not be specced into convection?


I'm in pvp gear. ... while raiding

^ I lold
Edited by Shockáholic on 12/19/2010 7:59 AM PST
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90 Tauren Shaman
3130
Earthquake is the worst excuse for a 31 talent point ability I have ever seen, simply appauling.
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48 Human Paladin
240
12/18/2010 9:17 PMPosted by Minotaurum


It has a knockdown effect on it.

The chance is so low and the price that you have to pay for that low chance is so high, though, that it's really no surprise that you didn't know that. :)

Halve its mana cost, increase its knockdown chance to 50% per tick.

BAM! I just fixed Earthquake!


50% per tick would be insane for PvP. I main an elemental shaman and even I will say that.
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85 Draenei Shaman
5710
Elemental is fine.

What needs to change is the perception that Earthquake should be a lolAOE facerolling skill on every large pack.

EQ is just like TS was (and still is, for people that know how to use it) for ages: A SITUATIONAL tool to help reduce a tank's damage intake on very large (usually bad) pulls while still outputting a respectable amount of damage.

It is not meant to be spammed endlessly.

It is not meant to be clipped and moved around constantly.

It is not meant to be an EVERY-PULL attack.

It is not meant to be something you use on every little pack of roving low-HP trash (Stonecore comes to mind here.)

A good example of a proper time to use ES is on the upper outdoor sections of H.SFK. It is far from uncommon to end up with an extremely large pull between the pats and Gargoyles. When a pile of mobs is beating on the tank all at once, and all within EQ range, THAT is when you not only use Earthquake, but let it go IT'S FULL DURATION.

When you clip EQ to recast, you not only give up the damage you already paid for with mana, you also give up the not-insignificant amount of mana regen that occurs during the eight second animation.
Edited by Kharelin on 12/19/2010 10:49 AM PST
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