I agree with the holy Paladin changes.

85 Tauren Paladin
2595
My roomate is a resto shaman and since cata came out our experience as healers has been completely different. Holy paladin=OP. resto shaman=terrible. QQ about the nerfs or accept blizzards challenge to be a better player. I think I'll choose the latter.
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89 Blood Elf Paladin
0
I could not bring myself to race change my BE to a tauren just because they look so goofy when you try to cast holy heals. I always thought of tauren as a nature healer class.
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85 Tauren Paladin
2595
i could not bring myself to roll a paladin before, just because my only options were belf (lol) or Alliance. i always thought of belfs being an alliance race.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
2725
The problem though is that their stupid changes overall have actually made healing somewhat boring. The only way they seem to have been able to efficiently tune us to require lots of mana was to capitalize on the "small", "fast", and "big" heals. All the other heals were either totally destroyed so they heal for nothing, or were made so expensive it's never worthwhile to use them.

Resto shaman are in a bad spot because healing rain is too small, short, and expensive to use often, and chain heal got more expensive and it heals for less now. Their only real option at all is the three basic heals. Everyone else at least has a few viable options.
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85 Tauren Paladin
2595
I've also noticed that players, especially in PvP, will run OUT of healing rain, not that it's a problem for intelligent people.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
2725
I've also noticed that players, especially in PvP, will run OUT of healing rain, not that it's a problem for intelligent people.


Yet the same people in PvE will happily stand in anything, even when it's killing them.
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90 Human Paladin
8665
The problem with the holy paladin build was that they were too mana efficient because light of dawn hit raids like a truck. Their solution was to not only bring down the base healing of light of dawn by 40% by also eliminate the way that we build light of dawn to be used quickly.

I think they took a horrible approach to this entire process.

The big part of the fun of playing as a paladin healer is that it was building a rotation and you worked to keep the rotation. Holy shock, holy light, holy light, Word of glory for tank healing. I actually did not use Light of Dawn very much because I enjoyed the 30% chance to get back those points and typically only 2 or 3 people needed healing anyway. So I felt I was smart healing. As another poster stated, by making the changes they have made I find myself not casting holy light at all.

The only purpose to casting holy light before was because it was a mana efficient move that generated holy power. I didn't even care about the fact that it healed because you never really noticed it anyway, what's a 10k heal going to help on a 150k tank? HOWEVER, it was really nice to see when your rotation was working their hp would steadily STEADILY increase, it pretty much matched the damage incoming in most situations. Without the generation of holy power from holy light, I don't ever find myself casting it. Its a 2 second cast that hits like a pebble. I definitely don't have 2 seconds in any fight to cast such a low power spell.

All that needed to be done was a nice huge nerf to light of dawn. The entire concept behind holy pally was supposed to be healing throughput rather than AoE and HoT spells and that has been severly limited by allowing us to only generate a full 3 stack of holy power every 18 sec without using HUGE spells like Light of dawn or Flash of light.

I enjoyed the rotation, it was fun, made me feel like I was doing something exciting. When something came up and messed with the rotation I would adapt, much like a dps class. Don't get rid of the rotation, change it back and make the spells more expensive and weaker or something, just don't take away the fun from the class.
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83 Draenei Priest
3200
It's not really that holy paladins are getting weaker that is objectionable to thinking players, it's the way it was done.

The buggy and overpowered things (protector of the innocent, and light of dawn reflecting onto the beacon) have been left in, and even strengthened (LoD hits unlimited targets now) while actual interesting game play that encouraged decision making with what spells we cast has been gutted - Tower of Radiance not giving holy power from holy light means that ToR (a tier 6 talent!) will see little to no use anymore, and word of glory will still be sidelined for LoD anyway (a 1 point LoD on a few targets heals the beacon for more than a WoG)

nobody is saying that holy paladins weren't stronger than other healers last week, and it'd say there was a point to be made for bringing other healers up to where paladins are, rather than nerfing paladins. but if the designers feel that nerfing paladins is the way to go, I really don't think this is the way to do it, and neither does anyone who is mathematically inclined.
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100 Human Paladin
13120
Posted by Noxyja
It's not really that holy paladins are getting weaker that is objectionable to thinking players, it's the way it was done.

The buggy and overpowered things (protector of the innocent, and light of dawn reflecting onto the beacon) have been left in, and even strengthened (LoD hits unlimited targets now) while actual interesting game play that encouraged decision making with what spells we cast has been gutted - Tower of Radiance not giving holy power from holy light means that ToR (a tier 6 talent!) will see little to no use anymore, and word of glory will still be sidelined for LoD anyway (a 1 point LoD on a few targets heals the beacon for more than a WoG)

nobody is saying that holy paladins weren't stronger than other healers last week, and it'd say there was a point to be made for bringing other healers up to where paladins are, rather than nerfing paladins. but if the designers feel that nerfing paladins is the way to go, I really don't think this is the way to do it, and neither does anyone who is mathematically inclined.


i think what holy light not working with tower of radiance will actually encourage holy paladins to use a heal other than holy light to generate holy power, actually. that would make some sense to me. so would people using WoG, now that paladins have to use more than holy light to generate holy power, since WoG is free and free is pretty efficient.

the change pretty much forces the rest of the paladin's healing arsenal back into use, because players found that they could make paladins work the way they have in the past (i hit this one button and heal the best forever ololololol i think it goes), which kind of breaks the entire healing model they've adopted for the game.

and if you've gotta be mad, get mad at the top guilds who just crushed all released normal raid content using only holy paladins to heal their raids.
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90 Human Paladin
8665
The problem doesn't lie with holy light being the one spell we would cast, because that has never been the case for me. I've been healing heroics for about 4 days now and they still challenge a lot of groups. I would have to pop CDs and cast Flash of lights, recover tanks by casting light of dawn before I could go back to my old rotation to ensure he didn't die, and throw holy shock on dps or whoever needed it the most.

The fact is holy light does not do enough healing for the long cast time, and the only TRUE benefit to casting it was to bring up a little big of generate some holy power that would later pay off. The move was just there to generate holy power, with the healing as the side benefit.

Nerfing light of dawn was a good choice, but here's another good choice, don't have it redirect to the tanks! Then give us back the ability to generate some holy power without depleting our mana pool or waiting 6 sec in between. I mean, if you want me to go up and whack the boss with crusader strike, I'll do that.

The fact that holy light no longer has a place in my typical rotation is extremely sad, seeing as how it is supposed to be my main heal.
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83 Draenei Priest
3200
i think what holy light not working with tower of radiance will actually encourage holy paladins to use a heal other than holy light to generate holy power, actually. that would make some sense to me. so would people using WoG, now that paladins have to use more than holy light to generate holy power, since WoG is free and free is pretty efficient.

the change pretty much forces the rest of the paladin's healing arsenal back into use, because players found that they could make paladins work the way they have in the past (i hit this one button and heal the best forever ololololol i think it goes), which kind of breaks the entire healing model they've adopted for the game.

and if you've gotta be mad, get mad at the top guilds who just crushed all released normal raid content using only holy paladins to heal their raids.


I think we're talking about different things here. I am not a raider.

I already used all the paladin heals - but in a pvp environment the extra time it took to cast holy lights more than offset the increased mana efficiency. now it both takes even longer and heals for even less. it's basically not a viable option, and I don't think having less options is interesting gameplay.

I'm hardly 'mad' though, I play the game from the perspective of more than one class, and even on my paladin I will be happily swapping beacon around and play near it's potential.
Edited by Noxyja on 12/14/2010 9:28 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4105
Posted by Martana

and if you've gotta be mad, get mad at the top guilds who just crushed all released normal raid content using only holy paladins to heal their raids.


Check the kill pics of any of the world top guilds, none of them did it with "only holy paladins" :P

The fact is, Holy Light is completely worthless without its HP generation. With 99% of the players I group with having 100K+ life pools, Holy Light is a drop in the ocean, and in Heroics, in the time it takes to cast it on someone getting hit, they've already taken twice the damage it heals :P

The only reason I used HL is to generate power, or to patch up warlocks after a Lifetap :P

If Blizzard wanted to fix the LoD "abuse" they percieved, they just A: make it not hit the Beacon. This was the only issue with it as I saw...The raid/party healing it does is pathetic, IF it can manage to hit all 5 people which almost never happens. Unless you're in a raid and run up to the melee group around the tank and shotgun them in the face. If it didn't bounce half of it's heals to the Beacon, there wouldn't even be an issue.

I went OOM plenty of times pre-nerf, in no way did I see myself as OP or any better than any other healing class...

Basically, Blizzard saw a hangnail on our thumb, and proceeded to chop off our arm to fix it.
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85 Human Paladin
3550
This is the first nerf I've ever seen that NO ONE agrees with, even when they were ok with getting nerfed. Most of the other classes, while generally happy we were nerfed are also sorry to hear how it was done. Maybe Blizz will rethink this a little. Here's hoping.
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90 Undead Mage
Syn
0
12/14/2010 7:59 PMPosted by Harpslayer
My roomate is a resto shaman and since cata came out our experience as healers has been completely different. Holy paladin=OP. resto shaman=terrible. QQ about the nerfs or accept blizzards challenge to be a better player. I think I'll choose the latter.


You're an idiot if you agree with these nerfs. There is far too much damage, far too little mana regen, and without having a 'reasonably' cheap way to generate holy power, paladins have virtually zero aoe healing ability. I don't disagree that the other healing classes are in shambles, that doesn't mean that ruining the holy power synergy is the way to fix it. 6k mana for a single point of holy power is ridiculous. What's that? there are mobs that do damage to multiple targets? Let me cast Holy Radiance. Oh **%*, there goes a huge chunk of my mana. Maybe, if I'm lucky, after I blow even more, I can get to 3 stacks, and heal everyone in the group for another whopping 4k.

Yes, paladins can judge for 15% of their mana, which is immediately consumed by a single spell cast. It's like bailing out a sinking ship with a dixie cup. Unfortunately, when the entire group is taking relatively significant damage, and you have to choose between who lives and who dies, based solely on available resources, there is a problem.

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