Holy Light RIP

85 Draenei Paladin
4475
with the hotfix is there really a use for Holy light? Personally ive taken it off my bars and just heal with a divine light every 6s what are your thoughts?
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
0
I still use Holy light...Just because it doesn't generate HP charges doesn't mean it's useless. It's cheap and heals for 7-8k. I use it when i don't feel like seeing the animation of Divine light. Plus you guys are just blowing this change out of proportion. I just hit 85 and started healing dungeons and i'm doing pretty swell. Given i haven't tried heroics, i'll still find a way around the nerf to be a better healer than the other people in my guild.
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85 Draenei Paladin
4475
when u get to heroics and raids ull realise that the holy power it generates was as useful as it could be now it just doesnt heal for enough since the WoG/LoD in between arent frequent enough.
Edited by Draseum on 12/14/2010 8:13 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
2725
Divine Light and Flash of Light will never be mana efficient, they ensured that. I don't really think there's an alternative to using holy light that's good enough you can remove it entirely. This nerf forced the people abusing the talent to have to consider mana, but it forced the rest of us to take an average hps hit. Now if we need to burst heal, we can't mix together four or five heals quickly to make it up, we have to drain half our mana bar throwing out giant heals.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
0
[quote="null"]15364256990[/quote]



This is why i didn't want to come busting down everyone complaining about the changes, i just dont know how it has affected my healing just yet. I'm *cattly* footing in normals so i'm getting used to not having the high HP generation that everyone else had, so maybe i'll adapt easier. I will say that Blizzard should have just nerfed LoD, not ToR, but alas you can never nerf just one thing, it's like eating chips, you can't eat just one.

EDIT: Really Blizzard? P-ussy doesn't just mean that >.> it can be used for old timer expressions that i pick up from my grandpa and dad.
Edited by Xphyr on 12/14/2010 8:17 PM PST
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85 Draenei Paladin
4475
basically what they need to do is improve either mana regen, or increase the healing of holy light to balance this out and y didnt they put it in the patch notes?
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
2725
Abusing the talent???? Im sorry if its in the game its not abuse. Its this sort of thinking that gets paladins nerfed at every turn for the past 3 years.

Toraxa that cant be youre main with only 1600 acheivment points. Whats youre real main??? Shaman? Druid? Sounds like you came on here posing as a paladin to spread fud.




Abuse is the term used by Blizzard. Either way it was a much more extreme use of the talent. This is my main, as much as any character is. My friends and I transferred to another server to play alliance for the past year or so, and thus this character isn't as advanced as he could be. I play a resto shaman too, but she's still 80 and hasn't been played since before 4.0.1.
Edited by Toraxa on 12/14/2010 8:29 PM PST
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85 Draenei Paladin
4475
Still theyre a bit liberal with the term abuse, theyre the ones that put it in game, theyre the ones that allowed LoD to transfer to the beacon (they restricted Holy Radiance) and id assume they did testing so why the change now?
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5520
Posted by Unférth
Abusing the talent???? Im sorry if its in the game its not abuse. Its this sort of thinking that gets paladins nerfed at every turn for the past 3 years.

Toraxa that cant be youre main with only 1600 acheivment points. Whats youre real main??? Shaman? Druid? Sounds like you came on here posing as a paladin to spread fud.


Truly ignorant comment. Blizzards' blue post suggested people were abusing LoD to get mana-free massive aoe heals in raids. Pay attention........
Edited by Gumruk on 12/14/2010 8:37 PM PST
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90 Draenei Paladin
10585
ran heroics tonight, saw no change in my healing style except that I use just a few less HP heals (LoD WoG for the 'tarded) but if I had to point out a significant change I would have to say that LoG is weak as hell.

I mean weak as if hitting targets for under 3k when all 5 of us have over 100k hp. That makes it the weakest heal we got now. Weaking that my Long word glyph HoTs but at least "GoLW" gives me heartsong procs like constantly.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
2725
12/14/2010 8:34 PMPosted by Draseum
Still theyre a bit liberal with the term abuse, theyre the ones that put it in game, theyre the ones that allowed LoD to transfer to the beacon (they restricted Holy Radiance) and id assume they did testing so why the change now?


Yeah. I posted in another thread with three different alternatives they could have used to fix it without screwing us all over. I personally was not specifically using it this way. I was just using holy light as much as I could get away with on everyone so I didn't have to blow a ton of mana on the bigger heals. I've got around 2,000 mp5 in combat so I can almost cast holy lights for free, but the other heals quickly drain me. It was nice though when in a pinch to switch to "Holy crap, save the tank!" mode, drop a few holy lights on him and be in a perfect spot to word of glory him. I didn't really look at my recount enough to notice that light of dawn was actually healing the tank for so much, so I only used it when everyone was taking hits.

That's the real issue here for me. There are other ways they could make it less abused without totally ruining it's use. Those of us who only used it periodically for emergencies, and were using our whole toolbox now lost one of our useful tools and are worse off when we were playing entirely as intended, using all of our heals and trying to genuinely save our mana. I was regularly ending fights with 30-50% mana, sometimes I would end full, but it was mostly due to my group being good, and not just my having mana-less heals.
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85 Draenei Paladin
4475








Yeah. I posted in another thread with three different alternatives they could have used to fix it without screwing us all over. I personally was not specifically using it this way. I was just using holy light as much as I could get away with on everyone so I didn't have to blow a ton of mana on the bigger heals. I've got around 2,000 mp5 in combat so I can almost cast holy lights for free, but the other heals quickly drain me. It was nice though when in a pinch to switch to "Holy crap, save the tank!" mode, drop a few holy lights on him and be in a perfect spot to word of glory him. I didn't really look at my recount enough to notice that light of dawn was actually healing the tank for so much, so I only used it when everyone was taking hits.







That's the real issue here for me. There are other ways they could make it less abused without totally ruining it's use. Those of us who only used it periodically for emergencies, and were using our whole toolbox now lost one of our useful tools and are worse off when we were playing entirely as intended, using all of our heals and trying to genuinely save our mana. I was regularly ending fights with 30-50% mana, sometimes I would end full, but it was mostly due to my group being good, and not just my having mana-less heals.




Yeh i calculated that while in combat and judging on CD i had about 3k mp5 so holy light was extremely efficient now i have taken it off my bars it takes too long to cast and doesnt heal for enough, reduce cast time by .25s increase healing by 2k and u have urself a balanced mana efficient heal....
Edited by Draseum on 12/14/2010 8:43 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5520
^ All of this. Please fix us blizzard, this has been my main for 6 years, I don't wanna pick a new main......
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90 Human Paladin
8665
The problem with the holy paladin build was that they were too mana efficient because light of dawn hit raids like a truck. Their solution was to not only bring down the base healing of light of dawn by 40% by also eliminate the way that we build light of dawn to be used quickly.



I think they took a horrible approach to this entire process.



The big part of the fun of playing as a paladin healer is that it was building a rotation and you worked to keep the rotation. Holy shock, holy light, holy light, Word of glory for tank healing. I actually did not use Light of Dawn very much because I enjoyed the 30% chance to get back those points and typically only 2 or 3 people needed healing anyway. So I felt I was smart healing. As another poster stated, by making the changes they have made I find myself not casting holy light at all.



The only purpose to casting holy light before was because it was a mana efficient move that generated holy power. I didn't even care about the fact that it healed because you never really noticed it anyway, what's a 10k heal going to help on a 150k tank? HOWEVER, it was really nice to see when your rotation was working their hp would steadily STEADILY increase, it pretty much matched the damage incoming in most situations. Without the generation of holy power from holy light, I don't ever find myself casting it. Its a 2 second cast that hits like a pebble. I definitely don't have 2 seconds in any fight to cast such a low power spell.



All that needed to be done was a nice huge nerf to light of dawn. The entire concept behind holy pally was supposed to be healing throughput rather than AoE and HoT spells and that has been severly limited by allowing us to only generate a full 3 stack of holy power every 18 sec without using HUGE spells like Light of dawn or Flash of light.



I enjoyed the rotation, it was fun, made me feel like I was doing something exciting. When something came up and messed with the rotation I would adapt, much like a dps class. Don't get rid of the rotation, change it back and make the spells more expensive and weaker or something, just don't take away the fun from the class.
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85 Human Paladin
3550
I'm exasperated by all the people calling out "abusers" and blaming them for our current state while everyone else has been perfect little angels. Blizz gives us tools, we use them to optimize our role. There aren't abuse moves in chutes and ladders. If it's allowed, it's fair game, blame the publisher. If blizz decides something is too good, that's on them, not us.

Blizz giveth, and Blizz taketh away.
Edited by Ryus on 12/14/2010 9:00 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
2725
I'm exasperated by all the people calling out "abusers" and blaming them for our current state while everyone else has been perfect little angels. Blizz gives us tools, we use them to optimize our role. There aren't abuse moves in chutes and ladders. If it's allowed, it's fair game, blame the publisher. If blizz decides something is too good, that's on them, not us.



Blizz giveth, and Blizz taketh away.


It doesn't matter what you call them. There were still two different groups. One group Blizzard had a problem with, and both got punished. Due to this change Holy Paladin as a whole now have no efficient way to build holy power quickly. We lost a lot of flexibility. We lost a lot of reason to mix up which heals we use. Now people are going to cast flash of light or divine light two times, shock, and Word of Glory/Light of Dawn. They did nothing to address the boring manner of the healing method, all they did was made it so we were forced to blow mana faster to maintain the same healing potential.

So let's summarize this again, to make it really clear. The reason for the remaking of healing in cataclysm was to make us have to consider mana, and use a wider variety of heals. This change did two things, it made us have to disregard mana conservation, and it made us dismiss several of our heals. This change is going the exact opposite direction as the original design and forcing us to take a step backwards.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5270
Holy light is still my main heal. Nothing has changed for me really. Whenever I get a breather I just Crusader Strike to gain holy power lol.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3235
I complete agree with Toraxa. The changes seemed promising in 4.0, then starting with 4.0.3 and cata thereafter, Blizz has squeezed the life out of holy pally's. LoD and HL are complete useless due to their disgraceful throughput (Valekian, there is no way you are using HL as your main heal in raid/dungeons, it is impossible to keep a tank up w/ HL as you main heal ... IMPOSSIBLE). So now are down to HS (another ridiculously poor heal but a must use due to the potential to proc for a quick DL heal), and DL, with WoG when HP is maxed. FoL is a complete waist of mana.

At least before all the changes, sure we were spamming FoL and/or HL, but now we are just spamming one slow heal, DL. I must say, the changes are very digressive and make for a very boring style of play.

Maybe incorporating Crusader to generate HP for WoG should be regarded as a must use when available. I don't see any other way. Quite a ridiculous side effect of a poor decision Blizz has made to rectify what they saw as imbalances. I am wondering what their testing processes are after these changes!
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5485
I'm honestly unbinding HL from Vuh Do tonight.
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