The new healing design doesn't work.

85 Blood Elf Paladin
BOB
4630
@Darisarix when Jazziro said some encounters weren't tuned with this healing model in mind is when bosses all the sudden smack the tank for 40k multiple times in a row and etc. Encounters like that are near impossible to heal especially when you have to worry about AoE dmg as well.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
6440
Farm reps and do normals for gear, make the tank mark kill order and CC and life is so much easier...why don't people want to put in this very basic effort?
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
BOB
4630
@Tiffamy You can't CC bosses. Trash is not the issue at least not most of the time. It's the bosses hitting for an unreal amount of damage that becomes way too much for the healer to heal even spamming their greater heal which is only going to make them OOM anyways.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
6440
I'm still seeing a lot of people undergeared for Heroics, with mana regen issues currently visible in their gear/forge/chant choices crying about hard heroics...
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85 Worgen Druid
5775
idk what you guys are doing but I haven't had any issues with any heroic boss from a healing standpoint
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85 Blood Elf Priest
6440
Which bosses netherlight?

Because I've yet to see that kind of damage in a Heroic. Most massive AoE damage taken by dps when a tank is focused is because something wasn't interrupted, they didn't properly LoS, or they are standing in something, in whcih case...YOU SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO HEAL THROUGH THAT.

You shouldn't be able to heal any of the following:

Stupidity, laziness, carelessness, recklessness.
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85 Troll Druid
3050
Posted by Tiffamy
You shouldn't be able to heal any of the following:


Stupidity, laziness, carelessness, recklessness.

/agree
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
BOB
4630
@Tiffamy 2 that come to my mind instantly would be the Forgemaster in Grim Batol and Ripsnarl in Deadmines which is synonymous to what I've been hearing from a lot of people.
Edited by Netherlight on 12/15/2010 9:01 AM PST
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85 Gnome Priest
5635
Heroics aren't that bad with a decent group. Very rarely does a tank get hit for half their health unless there is a mechanic fail. Boss encounters typically last 5~ minutes which isn't all that long.

That being said, I run with a spirit flask and a few stacks of those 22K mana pots (the ones that put you to sleep) depending on the group. Those saved me from many a wipe. If dps is low and people are failing mechanics it helps to carry them. If you're in a good group then they're completely not needed.

If you're in a truly terrible group then sometimes you just can't save them. However as a healer you have the most power to make the group better by being geared, prepared, and of course playing well.

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85 Draenei Shaman
3950
So far in my experience tanks need to use their cool-downs more, DPS needs to interrupt more, and everyone needs to use more situational awareness, CC more too (do it on trash so the healer doesn't need to drink everyone other pull, not because you can 'get through' it otherwise). There is a lot of data coming in that tanks gearing more for avoidance v. Stam means healers go OOM less frequently if at all.

The game changed, adapt.


Also, yea, everyone on the server actually has to learn the boss fights and dynamics and not just steamroll. We actually have to work on it, and practice, and better our play-styles and loot and boss kills don't grow on trees. Mitigate the raid wide damage. Actually interupt the mechanics that require it. Tank needs to put bosses in certain spots, dps has to group so Healing rain, Effloresce, chain heal, etc hits them when damage happens. Dps has to actually more when raid damage happens. Stop being lazy. I know its a game and there is some extent to 'I don't want this to be so hard' but its not that hard. If you want God mode, go play one of those stupid games where your toon can take out whole cities 1 on 500 with some sweeping Axe attack over and over.

I like the need for a more technical understanding of the game and your role, and the need to execute them with skill. Yes, you have to use more buttons, yes you have to use more brain, yes you have to break out of the LK mentality. But do it, and free your mind.
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100 Tauren Druid
12110
Posted by Malekus
Why not nerf the hell out of aoe tanking as well? IDK.


Where have you been? They did.



12/15/2010 8:24 AMPosted by Tiffamy
I keep seeing the argument that heals should heal for more. I guess thats okay, but if a heal is going to take a tank from 30% - 100%, then it should also use 50% of your max mana...I think thats about fair.




I disagree. Firstly, I don't think a heal should ever heal someone 70% of their life. That's what we had in WOTLK, and that wasn't fun (imo). That's why it was changed.



But your logic is fallacious. At lower levels, as I posted earlier, a nuke heal will replenish about a third to half of a tank's HP. It chugs a good chunk of your mana too, (about 250 out of 2.2k... or roughly a tenth of your total mana.) This is the tradeoff healers learn to accept for the majority of their WoW life.



But suddenly, in Cataclysm, the scaling changes. Drastically. A nuke heal will restore a pittiance of the tank's health yet still suck your mana dry in no time. This is no fun.



All I want is for the scaling to stay linear, or more linear than it is, rather than this sudden extreme dropoff in efficiency. I get it. They don't want our emergency heals to be efficient. But the thing is, at lower levels, they aren't yet they're still meaningful and feel useful. At 82+, this is no longer the case.
Edited by Snuzzle on 12/15/2010 9:18 AM PST
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90 Undead Warlock
9645
<blockquote data-quote="15361863419"><div>Posted by Netherlight</div>Blizzard stated that they wanted to make healing harder, and get rid of spike damage on mobs/bosses. Well they certainly succeeded on making healing harder and I definitely like that I don't get bored as easy, but there is still a problem. We don't heal for enough. People can deny it all they want, but the true matter at hand is spike damage isn't gone. When I'm running heroics with friends and we're all in ilvl 333+ and the tank has more gear than everyone and he is constantly getting hit for half his hp it's something not anybody can heal through.







The current design doesn't work. Spike damage needs to be fixed or we need to heal for more to counteract the spike damage. Normal dungeons are fine, but heroics are way too insane for how low we heal.</blockquote>

Not surprised that the majority of healers complaining about heroics are still in greens and poorly optimized blues. You are not geared enough for heroics to be medium difficulty let alone easy. You are not in ilvl333+. About 1/2 of your gear is < 333. At your gear level heroics should be very hard!

Run normals until geared, then run heroics. Stop trying to speed through gearing up, you're just hurting your groups. Tell the same to your tanks/dps if you see them running around trying to get carried.
Edited by Halflived on 12/15/2010 9:26 AM PST
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85 Tauren Druid
8965
12/15/2010 8:55 AMPosted by Netherlight
@Tiffamy You can't CC bosses. Trash is not the issue at least not most of the time. It's the bosses hitting for an unreal amount of damage that becomes way too much for the healer to heal even spamming their greater heal which is only going to make them OOM anyways.


Unfortunately a good percentage of heroic boss/mini boss fights involve a "add rush" mechanic so the CC point is technically still valid.

In my opinion the difficulty is set by the people you are playing with. If you have a group that knows what they need to do, when to do it, and do it without being told, your role as a healer becomes exponentially easier. There are SOME fights that are pure healer checks, but the difficulty is also reduced by my previous argument argument. For example, a retribution paladin lay on handing himself if he sees everyone at 20% hp. A eleshaman casting healing rain during transitions. Prot pally casting DiSac when massive AOE occurs. Its not that blizzard is making things impossible, but rather increasing the curve for all players to know thier class well and play it to its fullest.

I do agree with some comments on the scaling issue, but its not something that requires changing the healing model, rather boss tuneing.

Also lol at tanks that ask the question "What's a LOS pull?" something that WotLK lost btw.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12745
Posted by Netherlight
Blizzard stated that they wanted to make healing harder, and get rid of spike damage on mobs/bosses. Well they certainly succeeded on making healing harder and I definitely like that I don't get bored as easy, but there is still a problem. We don't heal for enough. People can deny it all they want, but the true matter at hand is spike damage isn't gone. When I'm running heroics with friends and we're all in ilvl 333+ and the tank has more gear than everyone and he is constantly getting hit for half his hp it's something not anybody can heal through.



The current design doesn't work. Spike damage needs to be fixed or we need to heal for more to counteract the spike damage. Normal dungeons are fine, but heroics are way too insane for how low we heal.

My achievements list would like a word with you.

Seriously, I dislike the healing changes as much as anyone. I think they're bloody awful, and I hate my class now, which is why I'm here on the forums. But can we please stop with the "it's not possible"? It clearly is. People are doing it. It is not that hard. It is just tedious and unpleasant.

All you have to do is play exactly the way Blizzard wants you to play. Spam your tiny slow heal, use your big slow heal for spike damage, make good use of your CDs, and don't panic. Plan several minutes ahead and do things slowly and methodically.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
6440
Snuzzle, I was being sarcastic, I think the heal model now is just fine. My main point is that no matter what they do/patch/change, the vast majority of the whiners wont be happy unless its a retard faceroll into epics without any kind of effort at all.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
6440
@netherlight. Can't speak for Forgemaster but Ripsnarl was kinda a joke, in fact, the only boss in Deadmines that the groups I'm in even have a remote issue with was the reaper boss and thats because they kept standing in his harvest....I still don't get why that is so hard initially.

If I remember, Ripsnarl was the one that is tank til he summons adds you burn down so they don't splode, then back to him and he has some sort of low health rage you heal through.

I remember the dps just ripping the adds and it not really being that bad...and I'm pretty sure he cleaved too, after the first one the melee dps (we had 2) fixed that.
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100 Tauren Druid
12110
12/15/2010 10:36 AMPosted by Tiffamy
Snuzzle, I was being sarcastic, I think the heal model now is just fine. My main point is that no matter what they do/patch/change, the vast majority of the whiners wont be happy unless its a retard faceroll into epics without any kind of effort at all.


I'm sorry, the sarcasm didn't translate really well :)

I don't think it's fine though. I think the dropoff in heal percentage to HP total is just too large in cataclysm and the gulf only gets wider as you level up. I don't think it's the end of the world, and it's much more engaging than Wrath's "spam your biggest lol" model, but it definitely needs some tweaks before I can say it's "fine."

There will always be QQ, no matter what. It's Blizzard's job to sort through it and find the valid QQ in the sea of whining. I don't envy them, but I think in this case a little bit of constructive criticism is valid and necessary.
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87 Blood Elf Priest
8065
Posted by Bahska
I just canceled my subscription im not paying for a game im not having fun with.




im mad that i have to screw over my guild to maybe get my point across though with Blizzards

This mix just does not work in the same post.
Stop being a martyr, either you pay or you don't either way, BUH BYE~! :D
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87 Blood Elf Priest
8065
Posted by Snuzzle
[quote="null"]15363464926




I'm sorry, the sarcasm didn't translate really well :)



I don't think it's fine though. I think the dropoff in heal percentage to HP total is just too large in cataclysm and the gulf only gets wider as you level up. I don't think it's the end of the world, and it's much more engaging than Wrath's "spam your biggest lol" model, but it definitely needs some tweaks before I can say it's "fine."



There will always be QQ, no matter what. It's Blizzard's job to sort through it and find the valid QQ in the sea of whining. I don't envy them, but I think in this case a little bit of constructive criticism is valid and necessary.[/quote] More people need your mentality, of course its flawed.. Honestly its going to be something.. Of course its healing.. but I love the system. I have fun with it already. Broken? Naw.. needs a little tuning is more in my opinions range
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85 Gnome Priest
5985
Healing is fine
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