World of Warcraft®

Cool, I will give pluglax a try, never used it before.

Charms cause the player to take over the target and gain some of their abilities. While possessing their target, the player cannot control their own character. Healers should not MC and MC'ing is a consideration on movement sensitive fights.

A few notes about MC:

- If used before any other aggroing skill every other mob will attack the MCed mob. A good tactic is to MC a fragile but hard hitting mob to damage the other mobs until he dies. The tank should position himself to intercept the mobs, though, as they will head towards the MC player the moment the first MCed mob dies. This can even be done with the healer, as he should be back before the first blow lands on the tank.

- If there is a healer mob, it's usually a good idea for the healer to MC it. The party gets what is usually a very potent healer with virtually unlimited mana, and the mobs are without their healer.

- In VP at least the mob can be made to jump out of the platforms. While the mob will not die, he will be out of combat for a fairly long time, until the game resets his position.

Just a comment - there are no diminishing returns in pve except on stuns, and even with stuns, there are 3 categories of stuns each with their own DR.

LOL =) learn something new every day.

The classes I play, I've only gotten to use a few CCs.

Druid's
* Cyclone - this is the only non-stun that does suffer from a DR and this is what I've witnessed first-hand.
* Hibernate - just haven't gotten to witness it myself. Haven't played my druid in cata yet.
Paladin
* Turn evil - just don't use it.
Priest
* Psychic Scream - Never used it unglyphed, and glyphed, mobs stay in melee range so it is broken quickly anyway. Hard to judge a DR on a 8 second duration when it always breaks in 2 because of damage taken.
* Shackle Undead - knowing that DRs do exist. I've just falsely assumed errant breaks or resistant mobs to be DR.

So when you wrote this, I immediately tested it on one of the few undeads in Cataclysm and discovered that particular ghost was resistant to shackle but in 6 casts, it only broke early once (never taking any damage), the second cast I believe.

You, personal testing, and the link below are my sources for this new information
http://www.wowpedia.org/Diminishing_returns

Edit: Annnnnnnnnd updated; I added a thanks to you Hino in post 10~ or so along with several others who've made significant additions (or corrections) to what I've written.

It humors me in 8 pages and over 4000 views, you're the first person to point this out. Apparently the misinformation is strong on this subject and kudos to you for the correction. I wouldn't be surprised if things like Cyclone cause the the confusion.

Forgot about cyclone :) That also had pve DR for some reason.

As for shackle breaking early...

This is mostly going off memory and I don't know where to find new information, but there used to be a 2-second resist check on cc. It would check it against your hit rating. Being hit capped meant it never broke, but with no hit you'd have for example a 4% chance of it breaking every 2 seconds (with no + to hit your spell hit chance against same-level opponents is 96%). And not all CC was subject to this check (sap was not if I recall). 4% sounds low, but over a 50 second period the chance that it will break at any time between 2 and 48 seconds is reasonably high.

I'm not sure if CC still has checks like this in 4.0. I haven't noticed things breaking early but on my casters I'm hit capped for trash so that may be a reason why.

(You might ask if I live in the forums, yes I do, my house is a few posts down =))

Cyclone was of course given DR because if you assign a druid to that purpose primarily, they can virtually lock an enemy out of combat for as long as needed even if their rotation goes "Cyclone [focus] > DPS for 4-5 seconds > Be ready to cyclone > Cyclone [focus] > DPS....".

I'll go play with some stuff with shackle later on the same mob type I tested on.. In any case hit rating is 'important' for CC, though it's only 6% for level 87 mobs, so it's best to have someone aside from your healer do it.

Interesting stuff.

Love the post,

Did not see anything about the Hunters Freeze Trap glyph which will slow the target by 70% for 4 seconds. Catch being is that while slowed the target cannot be refrozen, the debuff has to wear off. <Unless blizz fixed this and I missed it>

You can also use bracket notation to display the icons in the chat, for example:

{skull}, {cross}, {triangle}

On my holy priest I will MC the target allowing all the other mobs to kill it, then the other CCs go out and the tank picks up the rest.

Be warned ANY action by a player (buffing, shouting, ANYTHING) will draw aggro off of the MCed mob and will attack said player.

because of earlier posts yes i have 85's now.This want be no long double spaced post but to this i had to reply,are you realy able to read that post and ask that?

I've created a sort of in-game version of this guide, WhyNotCC, which can be downloaded at http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/whynotcc.aspx, which covers the CC each type of mob can be controlled with and allows custom notes for each mob in the game. Screenshots @ curse.

/facepalm

copy all the info from the first post into a word document then prepare to print, I was like shouldn't there be an addon? go through curse 10 pages of addons trying to find it found yours :) lol am going try it out now thanks for the great info btw

01/13/2011 1:53 PMPosted by Whynot

LOL =) learn something new every day.

The classes I play, I've only gotten to use a few CCs.

Druid's
* Cyclone - this is the only non-stun that does suffer from a DR and this is what I've witnessed first-hand.
* Hibernate - just haven't gotten to witness it myself. Haven't played my druid in cata yet.
Paladin
* Turn evil - just don't use it.
Priest
* Psychic Scream - Never used it unglyphed, and glyphed, mobs stay in melee range so it is broken quickly anyway. Hard to judge a DR on a 8 second duration when it always breaks in 2 because of damage taken.
* Shackle Undead - knowing that DRs do exist. I've just falsely assumed errant breaks or resistant mobs to be DR.

So when you wrote this, I immediately tested it on one of the few undeads in Cataclysm and discovered that particular ghost was resistant to shackle but in 6 casts, it only broke early once (never taking any damage), the second cast I believe.

You, personal testing, and the link below are my sources for this new information
http://www.wowpedia.org/Diminishing_returns

Edit: Annnnnnnnnd updated; I added a thanks to you Hino in post 10~ or so along with several others who've made significant additions (or corrections) to what I've written.

It humors me in 8 pages and over 4000 views, you're the first person to point this out. Apparently the misinformation is strong on this subject and kudos to you for the correction. I wouldn't be surprised if things like Cyclone cause the the confusion.

I find Psychic scream really useful in the second last trash pull in VP (heroic or Normal) especially when there are two healers or ministers of air in that group and you have limited silence effects. Just Hand of Protection or heavy heal the priest that is going in and have them quickly psychic scream. It will likely force enough of the mobs out of the triangle to make gathering the healers together or CCing them easier.

I use Hibernate all the time in Grim Batol - Useful on Dragonkin. You can also hibernate the non-elite croc mobs in City of Tol'Vir tho you don't really have to. I've never tried it on the monkeys in Deadmines but since they can be turned friendly the point is moot.

I also have never used turn evil in Cata. There really isn't a place in Cata that I think I would be safe using it to CC a mob by having it randomly run around. I have used it in WotLK to gather up more pulls. LoL.

12/15/2010 5:47 PMPosted by Whynot

Mage

G- X- I+ S- L+ 9 Counterspell - 8s dur/24s cd

Talentable to also silence for 4 seconds

G- X+ I- S- L- 69 Deep Freeze - 5s dur/20s cd; Frost

Only usable on targets frozen to the ground or while the Fingers of Frost buff is active.

Mages have several other interrupts beyond this:


Dragon's Breath (disorient stops spellcasting)

Impact through Fire Blast (stuns)

Ring of Frost - technically can "interrupt" through freezing the target, but it's unlikely that anyone would (or even could time it to) use it that way.

great thread ....just want to stress ..HAVEING HEALS CC IS FAIL...so noobs who read this ya YOU..stop asking the resto shaman to hex kkthnxbyebye

Awesome thread. As a rogue, I <3 any tank that makes good use of my utility. It keeps my instances fun. I thought I would add two small points.

First, I see people mentioning that sap needs to happen first. What's also useful to keep in mind is that if your rogue is glyphed (I announce it at the start of every PUG), it will easily outlast a trash pull, or even an accidental second pull. For that reason, combined with the fact that the sapped target is usually far from the dance floor, it is a good candidate for the last target you want to kill (a healing mob, for example).

Second, someone mentioned hit rating versus CC. Sap can miss, but it doesn't trigger combat and the rogue can simply re-apply so it's harmless.

Anyways just my 2 cents. Good post for beginner tanks and please dont listen to the one or two people who dont know what they are talking about.

As a beginner, I disagree a bit. It's nice to know all the options every player has for CC. But I have no freakin' clue on how to pull properly. Being new to Grim Batol, someone marked things on every pull so amazingly fast. I kinda relied on them to know what to do. But they couldn't rely on me to know how to pull properly to avoid breaking the CC. I'm going to ask for Pulling advice with CC in a different thread. That was really what I wanted to know, and why I came looking here.

That all said, this information will be useful for me once I get the hang of how pulls go. Right now it's: "Here's how to rebuild an engine, and here are you parts. There's a car heading at you and you have exactly 2 minutes to rebuild it. Now gogogogogogogogo!"

I'm sure three months down the road I'll probably adore this guide to no ends :)

Miss ya Catering =)

02/28/2011 1:51 PMPosted by Lieberstrang

Anyways just my 2 cents. Good post for beginner tanks and please dont listen to the one or two people who dont know what they are talking about.

As a beginner, I disagree a bit. It's nice to know all the options every player has for CC. But I have no freakin' clue on how to pull properly. Being new to Grim Batol, someone marked things on every pull so amazingly fast. I kinda relied on them to know what to do. But they couldn't rely on me to know how to pull properly to avoid breaking the CC. I'm going to ask for Pulling advice with CC in a different thread. That was really what I wanted to know, and why I came looking here.

That all said, this information will be useful for me once I get the hang of how pulls go. Right now it's: "Here's how to rebuild an engine, and here are you parts. There's a car heading at you and you have exactly 2 minutes to rebuild it. Now gogogogogogogogo!"

I'm sure three months down the road I'll probably adore this guide to no ends :)

One way to do it is to stand back with the group and let the dps CC and use RD on the mobs and consecrate (far away from CC) to pick up the mobs. What i like to do is Cast exorcism on the FF target and have the CC mob gets pollied on his way to me. I sometimes like to LoS if i can when i do this so that there is no chance of a caster standing there casting (though they should be CC).

If you want to mark fast go to your game menu and go to keybindings. You can then set up the individual raid icons to button presses. He is what i use

{skull}-bound to shift u. Kill first
{cross}-bound to shift i. Kill 2nd
{star}-bound to shift o. Kill 3rd
{moon}-bound to shift [. Crowd control 1 (i tell who is assigned to this icon once i zone in)
{circle}-bound to shift p. Crowd control 2 though i call it sun.

Sun and moon for CC =)

Also realize that CC that break with one hit are not hit by Avenger's Shield. But CC that can take a little damage (fear/hex) can be hit.

Great post Celyn.

Fear can be hit by AS though, even the fantastic cower-glyphed fears. When fear is the only cc you have, try to position it as far from your as target as possible or carry a dust and the single target as glyph (glyph of focused shield, I believe), or don't use as to pull.. the last is not a favorable option as having a ranged silence is a fantastic tool for pulling without having to los every pull.

Though there are other classes with ranged silences/death grip and there's nothing wrong, in a tight scenario, with having a DK or MM hunter grab a caster for you (or having a DK pull a hunter mob in).

03/01/2011 3:42 PMPosted by Celyndrashad

Miss ya Catering =)

March 5th, for better or worse, or continued mediocrity, but thanks!