To Healers, From a Tank

85 Goblin Shaman
2320
It's much easier when a prot paladin uses his Word of Glory spell to heal himself. A pally can pretty much keep himself alive allowing me to heal the rest of the group. In most cases.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3210
12/16/2010 2:30 AMPosted by Sinseer
Doesn't look like you've done much of any new content.


No. The holidays are coming up, we'll be traveling to visit our parents and in-laws abroad. I won't be raiding until the new year. Why does that matter?

In any case, this is illogical. Your reasoning here is that just because a particular encounter may not have an ability that can effectively 2-shot a tank, avoidance must necessarily be better. First and foremost, you're operating under the assumption that there is no such ability. Secondly, you're suggesting that an absence of such an ability necessarily makes avoidance more beneficial. Neither of these suggestions are compelling or reasoned arguments I'm afraid.


The biggest constraint right now is healer mana. Whatever reduces damage intake will reduce healer mana usage. If you never drop below X health, then that X health is technically all wasted stat points that provide you with zero extra survivability.

12/16/2010 2:30 AMPosted by Sinseer
In actuality, many relatively known bosses seem to have abilities which cannot be 'avoided' via dodge or parry; in fact, I'd be interested to know what significant boss abilities can be avoided via dodge or parry, if there are any. It stands to reason that this trend will continue throughout the expansion--at least for the most part. Further, this point is also rather apparent as it relates to Heroic Dungeon bosses as well.


That there are unavoidable abilities is irrelevant. Dodge, parry, mastery doesn't mitigate them, but neither does stamina. Stamina doesn't do anything to reduce damage intake. Dodge, parry, mastery still mitigate the bulk of tank damage on most fights. You do need enough health to survive unavoidable damage (as I pointed out above), and in fact enough health so that healers don't constantly go in panic mode and waste their inefficient heals to patch you up, but that's not the same as indiscriminately stacking EH to the exclusion of all else.

12/16/2010 2:30 AMPosted by Sinseer
So again I'll ask, how is avoidance necessarily "king" while EH is necessarily "dead"?


I'm not saying that. The mathematician in me always cringes when WoW players ask what stat to stack, or which stat is the best or "king". It's a question that cannot be answered. There rarely is any single stat that you should stack to the exclusion of all else. You need the right balance.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7510
My fav tank? Would have to be pally, their self heals is just a major help in those times where things get desperate.

Warrior, IRON MAN!!!!! They hardly take damage, but my lord, when it comes to magic damage? They get hurt, hard.

Lul wuts a DK tank?
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85 Tauren Druid
2600
Tanks are tanks. It's not the class but the players themselves that make the difference.

You want your healers to love you?

Insist on CCing pulls- The less mobs attacking you at once, the less damage you take, the easier it is for us to keep the group going.

Don't AOE next to CC'd mobs- If you break the CC too early, what was the point of CCing at all?

Hit patrols first- removing pats from the equation reduces the risk of having them wander into the group when a pull takes longer than expected.

Make sure you have solid aggro on all mobs, especially ranged mobs- Healers will aggro ranged mobs if no one is keeping them distracted. A healer getting blasted because the tank didn't properly maintain a ranged spellcaster, makes us all quite sad.

We hate spending heals on ourselves because the tank didn't do his job right. This is made doubly aggravating when gear is low, DPS is trying to make recount sing their damage done vice paying attention to AOEs, and/or we're "relearning" this maddening heal system in Cata.

Do this, and we love you long time regardless of class.
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90 Undead Priest
11060
Not really a difference in damage taken or cooldowns available, but I really love doing heroics with my blood DK friend. If he takes a quick burst and I have to fight to catch up he has self heals/absorbs that really help me out. Death strike and death pact along with vampiric blood is pretty OP. Bloodworms also help a surprising amount on raid healing.
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Here are my first impressions after about a week of heroics:

Druids: Very easy to heal, excellent mitigation & self healing and lots of HP but seem to have threat issues.

DK: Blood DKs are probably the easiest tanks to keep up due to their extreme self-healing. I can only imagine what it was like before the nerf. Their threat is very strong also.

Warrior: Perhaps a bit harder to heal than the above 2, but my God it's like having an extra DPS (or two) in your group. Most heroics I've run with a prot warrior, he is #1 or #2 in overall DPS.

Paladin: Seems to be the low man on the pole right now for tanking. Ardent Defender is still somewhat helpful for "oh crap" situtations, but isn't nearly as good as it used to be. The trouble is that if the tank dies now it isn't because he took a single huge hit, but because he is taking sustained, unhealable damage, which is likely to still be the case after he self-rezzes with AD. Also tanks spend very little time below 35% health in Cata unless things are going really badly. Paladin threat and damage are a bit lacking too. They still have their utility (HoP is a great spell, if you are a pally please learn to use it) but in other respects they seem behind.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
5015
Hey. I just want to say I applaud your effort to help us. As for preferences some simple measures should be used.

1. Use your CD's when you can. Some fights were designed for the cooldowns to be used.

2. Take the role of leader if you can. You are the direct target of the damage, you should dictate how it should arrive to you.

3. Line of Sight Pulls are amazing. They are under-utilized by PuGs and sometimes even with guild based runs. Pay attention to these clues.

Finally if you are having particular trouble, I find that trolling the DK tank forums will provide particular insight into the intricacies of tanking.

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90 Goblin Shaman
9950
Honestly I have not had any issues with tanks. My issue is with DPS not focusing on what the tank is and getting aggro. So long as I have earthshield and riptide on a tank they can take one hell of a beating while I take a nap.
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90 Human Priest
10780
I agree with most of what has been said, I don't really have a hard time Keeping any tanks up no matter there class. Cooldown's Help. But I also have my preference Warrior, Pally, DK. With that being said I'l lprobably get some Haters. I leveled 1-85 side by side with my hubby Vanilla, BC, LK, and Cata. He is a warrior tank. I just got used to there Cd's I guess
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85 Tauren Shaman
3860
Haven't done heroics yet, but.

The tank that uses CC makes my job less stressful.

Yes, I can heal you threw that 5 pack of mobs with no CC, but I will be dry with most likely a melee Dps taking a dirt nap.

As for bosses. Pallys. I have always had a bad feeling about "free" heals. Makes my job easier, but I knew they would be a balancing issue.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
7965
For me right now.
It is actually death knights. I find their self healing is amazing and their cooldowns if they know how to play that is some DKs hero pull mobs that should be CC'd and rage at me when they die.... but every heroic cept deadmines that I have done has been successfully cleared by DKs and all of my normal instances to are usually DKs idm other tanks but I find them squishier perhaps because of not as many CDs and self healing.

Druids come second they if good and properly geared and quite a dream.

Warriors scare me... though some are amazing but I so rarely come across amazing warrior tanks no offence cept the ones from my server who are in some of the top end raid guilds.

Pallis are touch and go some are amazing some are squishy as hell but its usually the play style and gear level.

When tanks wait for me to mana and make sure the fight mechanics are followed and are a good tank I dont have mana issues and it goes well I dont usually even have to drink on trash pulls but this also incs good dps who can CC.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
5760
The type of tank that does not stress me is the tank that does not go AFK after every pull. I have noticed that Warrior tanks are a bit more squishy.
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85 Undead Death Knight
6110
Good feedback folks, interesting to seem some variance in the responses here.
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85 Draenei Paladin
10365
For me, I have noticed that warriors tend to have more problems holding agro then other tanks and that creates a problem. Paladins who don't pay attention to their auras or forget WoG in their rotation are also a problem. DKs with their damage absorb generation based on incoming damage and bears avoiding 30% of the damage outright are among my favorites to heal, but as everyone is saying, all tanks have their weak points so a preferred tank is situational giving equal skill and gear. Some you have to heal more, and others you have to watch DPS on. But any self healing tank has my sincere gratitude for helping everyone enjoy the game more.
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85 Worgen Druid
2980
The best tanks are the ones that:

1) Interrupt as frequently as possible
2) Use cooldowns in their rotation for trash, Know when to use cooldown for bosses.

Tip: Every boss fight, if you aren't using all of your cooldowns, you're not doing it correctly. Cooldowns are not to prevent wipes anymore, they are part of the encounter.
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90 Draenei Shaman
12640
Honestly I can't see much of a difference right now.

As well, any difference I could possibly see may be a skill difference between the players, not a difference between the classes.
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85 Draenei Priest
3535
In order of preference, these are all based off guildies:

1. Druid - 10k bubbles, sometimes 20k with vengeance stacked and CDs popped. 5k heals from crits. Need I say more? My druid friend easily pulls 2.5k HPS on top of sick DPS, sometimes 10k DPS on bosses. Only complaint is DPS MUST focus the druid's target, their AoE threat is so laughable I bet I could get threat via heals if I tried. Also frenzied regeneration + Guardian spirit is so overpowered it needs to be nerfed. The tank can not die while that's running the healing throughput is so high. Yes I understand he can't die anyways due to GS, but it makes my job much easier and is a near free full heal for the tank on damage heavy phases.

2. Paladin (WoG spam) - Not much to say. WoG is awesome? Their DPS is lackluster thou. Great AoE threat, therefor fail DPS are less an issue.

3. Warrior - Not much to say. Average all around. Probably the most balanced tank.

4. Paladin (SotR spam) - Takes more damage than a tank should in my opinion. Otherwise same as above.

5. DKs - Seriously feels like I'm healing a warrior with his shield unequipped. They heal less than druids too. I do enjoy how they have a cooldown for every occasion thou.
Edited by Senio on 12/17/2010 6:16 AM PST
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90 Tauren Druid
6615
Well ive healed quite a few heroics now and a even more regulars and so far it looks like this to me

Pally, DK/war, Druid in order from best to worst atm although gear probably plays a large role in these too along with CC and skill of the group
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85 Human Paladin
6745
A good tank is my preference. They all seem to have the tools they need to tank effectively. DPS that attack the tanks target and wait for AoE spells is a big factor too.
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85 Draenei Shaman
3950
I find that tanks who use their 2 and 3 min CD's on big trash pulls, and who gear for avoidance as well as stam, who pull packs back, who mark the focus DPS target and the secondary and keep the CC target CC'd, and then use your AEO treat abilities to be the better and easier to heal.

And its not just tanks, when DPS CC's, interrupts and stays out of poop, that makes a world of difference, as it should.
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