Adapting: Rethinking Holy stats/style.

85 Human Paladin
2475
It was a fun week, but here we are once again having to readapt to changes. Ok, ok, so we all have a hundred changes Blizzard could have made instead of the ones they did. Have the nerfs made you rethink the way you were gearing/reforging? I know for myself, haste has become not nearly as attractive as it was. It seems like crit has been worthless since the get go in Cata. So, what about mastery?



I think we may end up seeing mastery outweigh both crit and haste. This won't be due to mastery being suddenly very effective and attractive, but to the utter uselessness of the other stats. I, and other holy paladins I know, had been using haste purely to build holy power quicker with Holy Light.



What about Crusader Strike? Has anyone done any math(factoring in CS mana cost, SoI proc) on this to see if its worth the holy power charge? I'll leave that to someone who is more careful with their math than me.



Any constructive thoughts are welcome.
Edited by Prettylights on 12/14/2010 7:15 PM PST
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Paladin
2410
how has crit become worthless since going into cata? in wotlk crit heals were nearly always overheal, and thus wasted. In cata crit heals are barely ever overheal, so are always worthwhile.
Reply Quote
85 Human Paladin
2475
Yes, and in WoTLK crit levels were usually at least 35% whereas in Cata they may top out at 10%-14% if you gear for it. Maybe. Seems a pretty negligible stat to stack since its based on rather small percentage of actually being useful.
Edited by Prettylights on 12/14/2010 7:25 PM PST
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
3190
I've been reforging and gemming for spirit.
Reply Quote
85 Human Paladin
2475
12/14/2010 7:25 PMPosted by Lindbergh
I've been reforging and gemming for spirit.


Same here, I guess I should have included that in the first place. The way im looking at it is Spirit > Int > Mastery > Haste > Crit, but I just wanted to see what everyone else was up to.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
3190
I've been doing Spirit > Int > Haste > Crit > Mastery.

I don't have any theorycrafting to back it up but it's been working so far. Going back to the old vanilla days where spirit and MP5 was useful. I still like haste for getting HL faster, but mostly because Crit is so low right now. If I could get crit reasonably higher, I'd likely go for Crit to help daybreak procs for more HP. Mastery, from what I've seen for holy pallies is so lack luster it's not worth it. Hands down the worse healing mastery.

Reply Quote
6 Troll Shaman
0
Posted by Prettylights
What about Crusader Strike? Has anyone done any math(factoring in CS mana cost, SoI proc) on this to see if its worth the holy power charge? I'll leave that to someone who is more careful with their math than me.

Don't. Did the math here:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1406258637?page=2#36


If there's any adaptation we make, we're going to glyph beacon and swap beacon like crazy. Put it on the DPS and heal the tank directly.


I'm still play testing and theory crafting it more before I can say that's the way to go.
Edited by Lylthe on 12/14/2010 9:31 PM PST
Reply Quote
89 Blood Elf Paladin
0
I'm going to be experimenting with Haste and SPI as our mastery bubble gets eaten right as you put it on and while it does add up, You need to cast a heal to have the bubble come up so the way i see it is
Haste > SPI > Mastery > INT > Crit
Just my opinion though. There is a lot of room for theory crafting in this expansion as there is no solid cookie cutter way to do something as there was in Wrath or before.
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Paladin
2595
The beacon of light idea is interesting, although it would take a precious GCD to cast. I'll try it out and see what happens.

Edit: also Holy Shock and Daybreak will be a lot more useful now that i think about it.
Edited by Harpslayer on 12/14/2010 8:19 PM PST
Reply Quote
85 Human Paladin
3550
Of topic- I'm glad to see a constructive thread working things out today. Props.

I believe INT is definitely the king of our main stats, and spirit is our top secondary stat, worth reforging for. I wouldn't sacrifice INT for spirit untill I see some numbers. INT has a lot of bonuses to factor, and if we're fated to never again reach endlessly sustainable mana pools, bigger mana pools make a difference.

As of yet, after filling up on INT and SPI, I don't think there is enough crit haste and mastery left that we can pick and choose from to make a noticeable difference.

I like the thought on swapping beacons around. I'd been doing it for LOD beacon heals, but not for hard tank healing.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
10760
I have had little use with haste at the moment so I have reforged haste with spirit, left all crit and mastery alone. Testing it out and seeing how it goes with a mastery rating boost. Might as well since cata is so fresh lol
Reply Quote
85 Draenei Paladin
1585
Sorry if this is silly to ask (i've been mostly on my hunter, so i haven't paying a ton of attention to paladin changes..)
what is going on with the holy light thing, and paladins being nerfed?

i DID see somewhere that it doesn't give a holy power charge.. but i checked tower of light and it still says that it grants a charge of holy power~

did i miss something? lol ; ;

reading a bunch of 'can we (holy paladins) qq now!?" "we got nerfed" etc etc is making me rethink my decision to level my paladin up before my hunter :\
Reply Quote
85 Human Paladin
8355
My priority is INT > Spirit > Crit = Haste = Mastery.
Reply Quote
100 Human Paladin
10450
Posted by Razzy
Sorry if this is silly to ask (i've been mostly on my hunter, so i haven't paying a ton of attention to paladin changes..)

what is going on with the holy light thing, and paladins being nerfed?


Before the nerf, Holy paladins would Holy light the tank twice and holy shock either the tank or dps. This whole process would cost 6087 mana and heal for about 25,000 average not critting any heal. That would then give 3 charges for either Light of Dawn, or Word of Glory on the tank or other DPS. Doing this was much more mana efficient than casting lets say a divine light which costs 7026 and heals around 23,000 non crit. In essence it was much more mana efficient to cast the 2 holy lights and a holy shock and have 3 holy power than cast a divine light for 7026 and gain only 1 holy power charge.

Now with the change, we no longer gain holy power from Holy light which means, we can only gain holy light from a holy shock or Flash of Light/Divine Light on the beacon. (Excluding Crusader Strike) This dramatically reduced the ability for us to get Holy Power fast and mana efficiently. Because of this, It is now less mana efficient to get Holy Power (fast) for Word of Glory and Light of Dawn.

I remember reading a blue post saying they wanted paladins to be able to heal either the tank or the raid. Not just be a tank healer, but now with this change it is extremely hard for a paladin to keep up the raid efficiently, especially since they nerfed Light of Dawn also. So I am really curious what blizzard is planning for holy paladins because obviously they just disregarded what they had posted when they implemented the talent changes.

Earlier this week In the raid instance Throne of the Four Elements, I was able to keep up all of our DPS on Nezir <Lord of the North Wind> by using Light of Dawn and Holy Shock. It was difficult already for me in my current gear but was manageable. Now, I can't see that happening, I am going to have to have another healer replace me for that guy, because there is no way I will be able to keep everyone up while maintaining my mana the entire fight.
Reply Quote
100 Human Paladin
10450
Posted by Prettylights
It was a fun week, but here we are once again having to readapt to changes. Ok, ok, so we all have a hundred changes Blizzard could have made instead of the ones they did. Have the nerfs made you rethink the way you were gearing/reforging? I know for myself, haste has become not nearly as attractive as it was. It seems like crit has been worthless since the get go in Cata. So, what about mastery?

Any constructive thoughts are welcome.


Like you, I stacked haste/spirit before the change. I was 9% haste but now after looking over the changes I decided to reforge all my gear for crit. I am not sure if this is the best option right now, seeing how with our current gear we can't get our crit very high. But I decided to do it anyways to try and test it out. I have not been in a raid yet this week so I can't compare the differences to what I was earlier. I went from 9% haste to just over 3% and 10% crit to just over 17%. I notice holy shock critting more so I get more Infusion of Light procs but my healing mana efficiency is nothing compared to what it used to be.

Has anyone else tried a crit build? I would like to see pros/cons from other people.
Reply Quote
85 Human Paladin
6555
I've been focusing on intellect and spirit. I figure having more gas in the tank is a good thing, and the regen has saved my groups behinds several times, so far. After going oom, I've managed to accumulate enough regen that I can keep things going with just holy shock, holy light, and creative Holy Power use. (Even after the nerf earlier today)



I'm not saying that it's perfect, but since the healing problem seem to be stemming from lack of mana...I started my experimentation there. It seems to be working.
Edited by Kyrt on 12/15/2010 5:49 AM PST
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Paladin
2920
how does the new holy healing rotation look like?

are we using crusader strike?
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
3190
I keep toying with crit versus haste. I'm at a 2.02s caste on HL right now. I probably won't dump anymore haste, but I'll likely be doing crit from here on out. All Mastery gets reforged to spirit for me. I'm still likely to gem for INT for the mana pool, crit, and SP bonuses.

What I like about the crit build idea is critting on HL for daybreak procs which I now use for HP generation. I used to hold my Daybreak proc back a little until close to the end of the duration to see if I needed to put something out quick. Now, as soon as I get it I'll find someone who can use it and get my HP. This way if I get another crit on the next HL I'll be able to get another HP.

But haste is so hard to give up.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
4610
Posted by Hoping
My priority is INT > Spirit > Crit = Haste = Mastery.




Posted by Kyrt
I've been focusing on intellect and spirit. I figure having more gas in the tank is a good thing, and the regen has saved my groups behinds several times, so far...


Yea these posts are the only ones that make sense to me... when did the primary stat of intellect fall behind Spirit or any other secondary stat in priority? Am I missing something? Is there just too much already on the gear or something? What gives?
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
6005
When your holy light crits for 10k I don't even think mastery is worth it.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]