The Death of PvE

85 Blood Elf Paladin
5265
Some may not agree with me and others may only think I’m crying or qqing. I don't heal and haven’t for some time, but when is the madness going to stop.

I know I'm not alone here when I say PvE in WoW is dead when a single part of the game designed to enhance the abilities and fun for pvpers is and has completely taken over.

You can track from the start, (http://www.arenajunkies.com/), of arena when this game became solely based on arena and not on pve anymore. I have been playing this game from day one and have seen it progress, growing from dungeon to dungeon and raid to raid, never worrying about BG’s or pvp. Only if you had the Gump to spend your time farming grand marshal or high warlord did it matter.

You didn't have to worry about class's or whether you healed too much or did too much damage, or if your pvp based talents were OP or too much. We all know blizzard and the WoW dev team have had a love affair with curtain classes, yet nothing has ever been done about it. We all know that is most cases alliance has been favored over horde, though we go on playing the game we love and work out the difference in our play style.

In my opinion blizzard is going to far killing pve and raid based guilds when one class's gets nerfed over there others because arenaers and pvpers say so.

Where did blizzard go wrong, for me it was arena? Now I personally love arena my complaint is when it thoroughly affects the game play of pve. No one said Cataclysm was going to be easy and I don't want it to be, but when you nerf curtain classes so much (that you cant heal anymore, or want to change spec's) based off one area of a game (pvp/arena) in most cases your losing a huge core base in which this game was based and founded upon.

I love WoW and will most likely go on playing, dealing with the nerfs, the buffs and watching this game go from a pve/raiding online game to much more a pvp/arena based online game. I don't see how or why blizzard can't combine the 2 elements which people love so much and have 2 totally different spec trees. One spec completely for arena/pvp and one completely for pve/raiding.

Now you will say but they have, I will respond; no they haven’t. In my world in one spec your spells and talents are based on what you doing, if this is pvp, then there aligned with this in a way as not to affect anything in pve/raiding. Thus allowing those that want to pvp/arena the ability to w/o affecting those that want to raid. Same goes for pve/raiding. Those that want to pve/raid will have the same spells yet there conformed and aligned to their designed role, not just randomly nerfed b/c one part of the game thinks one class is OP, or one class has a spell that is to strong.

Some of you are thinking that with duel specing you accomplish this, yet that is not the case. When you nerf a class overall you nerf both pvp and pve. What I’m talking about is making it so when you nerf or buff one are such as pvp you don't affect the overall outcome of the other. Duel specing was a step in the right direction, yet never solved the total nerf/buff of a class.

I've leveled and played many classes, roles, and areas of this game. Though the one issue I still see and hasn't gone away since blizzard release arena is the fact that it controls all or almost all aspects of pve now, and the same can be said for pve. If it is too strong for its role then people want pve nerfed b/c its affect on pvp. There needs to be a line drawn and something set, so this isn't making one class totally obsolete, yet giving another the edge. Blizzard talks about equality and balance yet, when it comes to curtain class's the users, players, and pvpers of this game have complained about this for a long time.


Sooicidal
Edited by Sooicidal on 12/15/2010 4:22 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4070
TLDR?
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5265
Your loss....also known as someone who doesn't care enough to read something.
Edited by Sooicidal on 12/15/2010 5:53 PM PST
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85 Human Paladin
6435
12/15/2010 4:45 PMPosted by Yarrgh
TLDR?
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2 Human Paladin
0
TL;DR = arena broke WoW

k lol
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9040
Cataclysm will be the death of WoW mark my words
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2 Human Paladin
0
12/15/2010 6:01 PMPosted by Lilknifer
Cataclysm will be the death of WoW mark my words


except for the fact that the people who played because the game was actually kind of hard pre-bc have a newly renewed enjoyment for the game

i enjoy it more so again, because little timmy who didn't know how the ##@# to play finds the game too hard and will move on to guild wars.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5415
Come on, there are WAY more instances of pve changes affecting pvp balance than vice versa. This comes across very whiney.

I personally started playing for the pvp, so I'm obviously happy. I think you're wrong anyway though, this game will always cater to the majority (and you are in the majority) who play this game for the casual pve side of things.
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85 Dwarf Paladin
6920
I agree with the OP, they are trying to balance PVP and PVE....while one thing is OP in pvp, its almost useless in PVE (blessed life for example). Blessed life was hardly used in PVE, even before they put a 8s CD on the effect, however was OP in PVP. Certainly was OP in PVP, not going to lie, but it just shows what the OP was saying..balancing PVP with PVE is terrible, it will never balance out. You will create one problem after another.....umm, kinda like now?
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5265
12/15/2010 6:12 PMPosted by Fulgal
personally started playing for the pvp, so I'm obviously happy. I think you're wrong anyway though, this game will always cater to the majority (and you are in the majority) who play this game for the casual pve side of things


Maybe, but not everyone has played since day one. Since arena has been out changes are based on arena, both pve and pvp. I'm saying its not based on the raid anymore its solely based on the perfromance of pvpers/arena.
When they change someone for pve, they should know the affect of it on pvp, and same with pvp. Take this new pally change 'the day of" arena, hmm yet they say they want palllies to be more in line with ohter healers failing in all aspects of the game atm. Peronsally i think druid have it easier then any other class atm. My point being with a way to make changes to pvp without affecting those of pve is better then screwing those of pve b/c its OP or pallies don't go OOM as fast in arena as other healers. That is really all blizzard is saying, 'we want pallies to run out of mana just as fast as everyone'.
Don't forget I have a tank with 165k hp and I heal for 20k and cost me 7000 mana. Its not just pallies, the entire healing system is broken yet the day of arena starting the 'HOT FIX' was to oom pallies faster, and people are denying that fact?
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85 Tauren Druid
9460
Are you aware that the rationale given for the recent Holy paladin nerfs was based 100% on raiding? 100%.
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90 Human Paladin
7605
Just a quick fyi, the entire notion in the Cataclysm expansion with regards to scaling the speed of content was intended to fix PvE play. Bosses health pools increased, dps increased, but healing and boss damage decreased. The goal of this was for tanks not to get insta-gibbed in PvE boss fights if the healers missed one heal.

Mana for healers is fine, especially paladins. There is no reason that your dps should be taking extraordinary amounts of damage, and the damage to tanks when shared between healers is of minimal issue assuming your tank has more than 130k health (which is easily achievable).

Now lets look at PvP.

Because of the changes to your precious PvE gameplay, and to ensure that you can grind the exact same boss fights every week with minimal qq, I do very little healing in the arena. Sure resilience -kind of- helps to minimalize the amount of incoming damage, but somehow I dont think it is fair that the 3 dps on the opposing team can each hit for 30-40k per second, and my fellow healer and I are forced to heal for only 10-15k per cast. In case you didnt realize it, we are actually healing for LESS than we were 5 levels ago. And before you say USE FLASH OF LIGTHZOMG!... I can use 13-15 flash of lights before I run out of mana. If each one heals for 15k, that means I've healed only 225 000 damage. That's less than the health of two of my teammates.

So it seems as though the incapability of PvE healers to keep up with healing in the same boss fights that they do every week has caused PvP to be way more sporadic - entirely opposite to the Cataclysm theme of slowing down gameplay.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
9740
So it seems as though the incapability of PvE healers to keep up with healing in the same boss fights that they do every week has caused PvP to be way more sporadic - entirely opposite to the Cataclysm theme of slowing down gameplay.


You may want to rephrase that to 'some', or better yet delete it altogether. After you do that, go read and watch the dozens of Developer posts and interviews to educate yourself on why exactly healing was changed... But if you scroll down, i'll tell you, because i'm a nice person that dislikes ignorant posts made by presumptuous people.

Healing was changed not because healers couldnt keep up, but because they could keep up... so well, in fact, that it was a problem in both aspects of the game. Not only could they keep up, they could do so easily. There was little challenge in the design and this in turn made healing lacking in the excitement and interactive mediums. So they beat it down to a pulp... No more proportionally massive manapools with insane casting efficiency. Now, everything must be calculated, coordinated and executed with precision as the margin of error is minimal. It's a challenge.

One would think that, being of the PvP orientation, you would welcome this challenge with open arms because that's why you partake in Arena, isnt it? To be challenged and overcome... Apparently not in your case because it seems you enjoyed healing when it was easy... and now it's not, now it's unfair, now it's time to blame PvE players because you have no idea what's going on around you... Perhaps you're finally finding out just how average a player you are and seek to vent by spewing your insecure naivety all over the undeserving community members. Take your angst outside child, fresh air works better than your method.

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