Prot as dps

85 Blood Elf Warlock
4900
When running random dungeons, a friend of mine (Prot pally) runs as dps because she is under-geared/inexperienced tanking. After the 4.0 changeover she switched out to prot and fell in love with her class all over again. She loves actually being able to take a beating while doing close to the same dps. Everyone calls her out on being specced tank and queued up as dps saying, "prot as dps??", etc.

Is prot viable for dps/extra tank in case the tank can't hold threat/grabs too many mobs?
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89 Tauren Paladin
0
Well as you said, she is currently under geared for tanking so im guessing a mix of tank and dps gear. The only way she will be able to do close to competitive dps with other dps classes is to gear for dps but she wont be able to take the big hits with out end game tank gear so its a loose loose instead of a win win as she might have hoped. Right now its working since the majority is under geared and its a random dungeon but when it comes to end game raiding this will never work out.

dungeons are silly and you shouldn't compare the way your class works in them to how they might work in raids. in wotlk i would que tank as ret and tank randoms easily as long as i brought a competent healer.
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
4900
We were late to the dinging 80 party. In wrath she was under-geared, she managed to spend JPs on some gear that helped but didn't have the raid set. She got the best libram available at the time and some other stuff (like boots). I thought it was silly to waste points on the libram instead of the raid gear, but all that gear is trivial with cata. We pick up stuff as it comes, but are more of weekend warriors i guess.

What makes dungeons silly?
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85 Tauren Paladin
8660
Vengeance is OP
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100 Human Paladin
17035
I'm intending to try something similar myself once I catch up with my guildmates at 85 - fulfilling a DPS role with a Prot spec but with Righteous Fury turned off and offensive gear (which I tend to use for tanking anyways for casual content). Twice now (admittedly in my late 20s/early 30s and again in the late 50s) I've started a dungeon as Ret DPS, and taken over tanking partway through. Both times my DPS increased by about 20-25% and was more constant across fights, and both times a guild partner noticed and remarked on it too.

Yes, lower level content is lower level content... but as someone who's been switching between the specs regularly as I level, I've noticed it as a constant trend and am curious if it will continue into endgame.

Edit: I don't think Vengeance is responsible for the disparity either, partially because I've seen such a significant difference in DPS at such low levels.
Edited by Camaeris on 12/16/2010 9:07 AM PST
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89 Tauren Paladin
0
Dungeons are silly since they arent really a test of anyones skill, you can literally faceroll your way through them. Thats why the 5man party for dungeons is allowed to be randomly generated. You can get people doing off the wall things like healing in a dps spec, tanking in a dps spec, dpsing in a healing or tanking spec and for some reason your chances at success are still great
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100 Human Paladin
17035
12/16/2010 9:05 AMPosted by Denial
Dungeons are silly since they arent really a test of anyones skill, you can literally faceroll your way through them. Thats why the 5man party for dungeons is allowed to be randomly generated. You can get people doing off the wall things like healing in a dps spec, tanking in a dps spec, dpsing in a healing or tanking spec and for some reason your chances at success are still great


No one's claiming they are a test of skill, though they can be good for new players in developing basic skills. What the OP and I have both noticed or are theorizing, respectively, is that a paladin specced for Protection will be able to fill a DPS role as well as one specced for Retribution, and are curious if anyone else has either thought of this or tested it. No more, no less.
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89 Tauren Paladin
0
Like i said it will work fine in 5man dungeon groups but will never pan out in 10-25man raids since your dps will be too low in comparison to dps classes. Ive been playing prot in ret gear for ever it works great in pvp but is lol worthy for a raid. This question inevitably comes up every expansion it seems.
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
4900
5 mans was what i was talking about. In this situation it can work as long as the members know how to play. But, the general PUG group is like, "you can't do that, you are specced tank". They only see a ret pally and are like "dps!" or a prot pally and are like "tank!". I don't think they realise that Pallies are hybrids and can do 3 different roles well.
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
4585
No means no. Now go reroll a feral druid.
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89 Tauren Paladin
0
12/16/2010 9:31 AMPosted by Fevold
5 mans was what i was talking about. In this situation it can work as long as the members know how to play. But, the general PUG group is like, "you can't do that, you are specced tank". They only see a ret pally and are like "dps!" or a prot pally and are like "tank!". I don't think they realise that Pallies are hybrids and can do 3 different roles well.


Kay well if your pally is doing as much dps as the other classes in your party just find a working recount and spam it several times to shut them up. In reality in lower level dungeons the actual tank in the long run will do more dps thorough out the entire dungeon then everyone els any way so nothing new here.... Just play the game. NIKE. You pay for it not the QQ'ers
Edited by Denial on 12/16/2010 9:37 AM PST
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85 Human Paladin
TBD
2665
I went pretty much from 1-80 as Ret, didn't even have a second talent spec until I hit 80 when I picked up prot to solo BC heroics and other such fun. I have since dropped Ret and gone to a Prot-DPS while trying out Holy.

Here's the deal - in the 5 mans I've played from 80-84, you will be very close (and often surpass) DPS as prot over ret. The basic reason is prot has enough DPS from AoE attacks against trash to make up for the spikes of damage ret can do when firing on all cylinders. Also, the stat scaling hurts ret greatly as you level, since your haste needed to make CS on a 3s CD becomes unreachable. Ret's great for single target, but almost all fights in 5 mans are trash fights with multiples, so single target DPS isn't a huge deal. Not to mention Ret takes time to build up to its full output and most trash dies way before you can utilize that for longer periods of time.

Prot also gives you far more utility to a group (especially when pugging). Since I've gone prot, I don't remember ever wiping on a 5 man because a smart healer can keep me up if the tank goes down. And I do respectable damage on the meters, just as much as playing Ret. You'll get quite a few comments about it, mostly people just curious as to why. They don't mind when you do decent damage and save the group from wiping a few times. :)

* All the above is 80-84 normal pugs and probably won't apply to 85s and heroics, but I won't know that for a week or so.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
13345
Prot. only deals good DPS when you're tanking. This is because of Vengeance.
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10 Gnome Rogue
50
even without vengeance you can out dps most puggers if you know what you're doing
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
13345
12/16/2010 2:05 PMPosted by Gidgite
even without vengeance you can out dps most puggers if you know what you're doing


Ok, so if you want to stick with out-performing mouthbreathers slightly, then I guess you could DPS as Prot.
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85 Human Paladin
TBD
2665
12/16/2010 2:06 PMPosted by Vanye
even without vengeance you can out dps most puggers if you know what you're doing


Ok, so if you want to stick with out-performing mouthbreathers slightly, then I guess you could DPS as Prot.


Except you can often out-dps your own Ret spec as well... and when you don't, it's close enough. :\
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10 Gnome Rogue
50
that's all the person the OP is referring to wants to do.
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