Warlocks needing on +Spirit gear.

90 Draenei Priest
13585
Title says it all really. What are the healing community thoughts on this?

My story goes, was just in heroic Vortex Pinnacle and we've just wiped on the dragon boss. The lock says he wants a res instead of running back with us. Thats one of my few no-nos, so I tell him if I have to run back, so does he. I admit I was a !*!!# about it, and in turn he was rude back. Fair enough.

From them on, things go smoothly, except the tank stuffing up a few times. The cloth pants drop from the last boss, finally got what I came for. The lock needs against me and lo and behold, he wins. He then throws salt on the wounds about "having a taste of a lolly pop of his" for the pants.

Lets have a whine about locks and gear, shall we? :D
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10565
Bleh. Spirit gear should be off-limits for pure casters for the same reason spellpower (now intellect) gear is off-limits to pure melee: the only reasons to roll on it are if your current gear is godawful terrible, or if you want to grief someone.
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90 Night Elf Druid
10270
That really sucks, but it was a pug group I'm assuming. Fair does not apply. In a riad situation it should have gone to the healer (e.g you). I've had my fair share of healing items needed by dps and then see them win it. He was probably using the old line of "that piece of gear is way better than what I'm currently using" regardless if its a dps or heal item, and regardless if the role it was intended for actually needs them. Your best bet is to just shrug it off and hope to win them the next time you run through the dungeon.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
7965
wow thats awful.

Its just common knowledge to run back after a wipe coz once you run back the mana you have is buffing and quick healing then drink not rezzing it just takes extra time its wasteful.

Locks dont need spirit in any form and there are much better legs out there they would replace in a few days whereas you will keep those legs til you start raiding.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4475
Pff, try playing as a mage or warlock and having a priest roll on @!@! with no spirit. It's infuriating to lose some thing has stam, int, crit and haste to a healer, then listen to them #@*%% about being OOM.

While what he did was wrong, the frustration is certainly understandable.
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12/19/2010 7:50 PMPosted by Rémmy
Pff, try playing as a mage or warlock and having a priest roll on @!@! with no spirit. It's infuriating to lose some thing has stam, int, crit and haste to a healer, then listen to them #@*%% about being OOM.

While what he did was wrong, the frustration is certainly understandable.


No, that is not the same thing. Crit and haste are not wasted stats for healers, but spirit is a completely wasted stat for pure casters.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4475
Did not say it was the same thing, but you priests are qq'ing about your mana and taking items like that from mages and warlocks. Do you see why that would make them mad?

And again, douche move, but it is understandable.
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12/19/2010 8:09 PMPosted by Rémmy
Did not say it was the same thing, but you priests are qq'ing about your mana and taking items like that from mages and warlocks. Do you see why that would make them mad?

And again, douche move, but it is understandable.


And again, no it isn't understandable, because losing a roll on int/haste/crit gear to a healer is perfectly legitimate. In many cases there are no spirit items available in heroics for that slot, and even if there are, it's not like healers have to stack spirit to the exclusion of all else.

That warlock is taking an item with a dead stat, making it the equivalent of 20+ item levels lower for him than it is for a healer. That's not understandable or defensible, it's just being a jerk, period.
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55 Undead Death Knight
0
Its bad but there are stories of healers needing on hit gear and winning it over DPS so their CCs will land. Plus as Remmy said, healers will also roll on non spirit gear and then complain about their mana problems. I say this in a lot of threads but the solution is to stop pugging, all sorts of bad people in them.

On a side note, I think this is a problem with making spirit useless to locks and mages. Now spirit cloth is only useful for one class, Im not sure thats the way to go either.
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85 Human Paladin
2340
No, that is not the same thing. Crit and haste are not wasted stats for healers, but spirit is a completely wasted stat for pure casters.


This, and you casters need to learn it. The new rule of thumb is this:

Does the weapon have spirit on it? If yes, it's a healer weapon. Not dps.
Does the weapon have hit on it? If yes, it's a caster dps weapon. Not heals.
Does the weapon lack both spirit and hit, but have other caster stats? If yes, then it's fair game for everyone.

Welcome to Cataclysm.

On a side note, I really do wish the loot in LFD followed these rules, and prevented heals from rolling on hit weapons and dps from rolling on spirit. Seems totally fair to me.
Edited by Dranaden on 12/19/2010 8:17 PM PST
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55 Undead Death Knight
0
Does the weapon have spirit on it? If yes, it's a healer weapon. Not dps.


This is incorrect. Spirit is quite useful for ele shaman, boomkin, and spriests now. All three specs have a talent that converts 100% of spirit on gear into hit. From what Ive seen with shaman for example, most spell power mail has spirit on it so they couldnt avoid it even if they wanted to anyway.
Edited by Paulise on 12/19/2010 8:20 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4475
Srsly, if you can't understand how clothie casters are not getting frustrated by this, just ask them...

All cloth is priest healing loot, only certain cloth is caster dsp loot. So they are losing gears to priests and then watching the qq on the forums about mana. Is it right for them to ninja that stuff? No. Is it Understandable? For level-headed people, yes.

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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4475
12/19/2010 8:16 PMPosted by Dranaden
No, that is not the same thing. Crit and haste are not wasted stats for healers, but spirit is a completely wasted stat for pure casters.


This, and you casters need to learn it. The new rule of thumb is this:

Does the weapon have spirit on it? If yes, it's a healer weapon. Not dps.
Does the weapon have hit on it? If yes, it's a caster dps weapon. Not heals.
Does the weapon lack both spirit and hit, but have other caster stats? If yes, then it's fair game for everyone.

Welcome to Cataclysm.

On a side note, I really do wish the loot in LFD followed these rules, and prevented heals from rolling on hit weapons and dps from rolling on spirit. Seems totally fair to me.


No one is arguing whose loot is whose. I'm arguing that it's completely understandable for locks and mages to be upset with the current situation. That's all.
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12/19/2010 8:21 PMPosted by Rémmy
Srsly, if you can't understand how clothie casters are not getting frustrated by this, just ask them...

All cloth is priest healing loot, only certain cloth is caster dsp loot. So they are losing gears to priests and then watching the qq on the forums about mana. Is it right for them to ninja that stuff? No. Is it Understandable? For level-headed people, yes.


How is ninjaing spirit loot from a priest going to help with the QQ about mana? How is it "level-headed" to ninja something from another player because you're upset about Blizzard's design decisions?

I have an 85 mage, and it would never cross my mind to roll need on spirit gear. Any pure caster who does that has no excuse at all. It's even worse than healers rolling on hit gear, because they could be rolling offspec (and no, I don't like people needing on offspec gear, but it's a lesser sin than needing on gear that isn't good for ANY of your specs).
Edited by Cirocco on 12/19/2010 8:27 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10565
12/19/2010 8:19 PMPosted by Paulise
Does the weapon have spirit on it? If yes, it's a healer weapon. Not dps.


This is incorrect. Spirit is quite useful for ele shaman, boomkin, and spriests now. All three specs have a talent that converts 100% of spirit on gear into hit. From what Ive seen with shaman for example, most spell power mail has spirit on it so they couldnt avoid it even if they wanted to anyway.

This is true, and all the hybrid casters should be rolled into "healer" for purposes of gear priority/roll permission now, because they're intended to share gear.

Int/hit gear belongs to mages and locks until they're all over hit cap, which is approximately 1402857348 times harder for them than for people who can use spirit because there's spirit on freaking everything except cloth epics.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4475
Srsly, if you can't understand how clothie casters are not getting frustrated by this, just ask them...

All cloth is priest healing loot, only certain cloth is caster dsp loot. So they are losing gears to priests and then watching the qq on the forums about mana. Is it right for them to ninja that stuff? No. Is it Understandable? For level-headed people, yes.


How is ninjaing spirit loot from a priest going to help with the QQ about mana? How is it "level-headed" to ninja something from another player because you're upset about Blizzard's design decisions?


You're assuming that is their motive. Simple as this: They get pissed off losing some item to a priest, they want to steal items from priests. As if these ninjas are going to organize and thought-out letters of complaint to Blizzard and strive for change. The easiest route would be to hit 'need' on those items, and have the priests come to the forums and QQ. Ninjas are lazy. But their frustrations are understandable.
Edited by Rémmy on 12/19/2010 8:29 PM PST
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85 Human Paladin
2340
No one is arguing whose loot is whose. I'm arguing that it's completely understandable for locks and mages to be upset with the current situation. That's all.


Ah, in that case, yes, I can sympathize. I won a sword in HoO with no spirit or hit over a mage, but it was a huge upgrade for me. I was open with him and told him that I felt the current situation was a bit unfair to locks and mages. So yes, I sympathize with that aspect of it. What I posted, though, is what Blizzard seems to intend for the new rules to be. It is unfair to locks and mages, yes, but at least understand that the fault is not with the healer (unless he rolled need on that +hit item, then he's a douche), the fault is with Blizzard.

This is incorrect. Spirit is quite useful for ele shaman, boomkin, and spriests now. All three specs have a talent that converts 100% of spirit on gear into hit. From what Ive seen with shaman for example, most spell power mail has spirit on it so they couldnt avoid it even if they wanted to anyway.


Well, yes, those are given exceptions, but I classify those as healers. No, the spec doesn't heal, but Blizzard seems to have classified healers as any class that can heal as opposed to any spec, since they intend for healing classes' dps specs to use the same healer weapons. For weapon stat purposes, ele shaman, boomkin, and shadow priests are healers. They don't even really seem to need pure +hit, so I'd just assume leave the +hit to warlocks and mages.
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90 Draenei Priest
13585
12/19/2010 8:16 PMPosted by Dranaden
No, that is not the same thing. Crit and haste are not wasted stats for healers, but spirit is a completely wasted stat for pure casters.


This, and you casters need to learn it. The new rule of thumb is this:

Does the weapon have spirit on it? If yes, it's a healer weapon. Not dps.
Does the weapon have hit on it? If yes, it's a caster dps weapon. Not heals.
Does the weapon lack both spirit and hit, but have other caster stats? If yes, then it's fair game for everyone.

Welcome to Cataclysm.

On a side note, I really do wish the loot in LFD followed these rules, and prevented heals from rolling on hit weapons and dps from rolling on spirit. Seems totally fair to me.


I agree with this, there's just too much QQ.
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85 Human Priest
2175
Happened once, he was shortly sent back to his 45 min que.
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