Ret is Fun and Powerful once you get gear.

85 Blood Elf Paladin
7135
Where did you get that ret self healing was good?

It's terrible unless you get a killing blow on somebody. Then when you consider we need to give up a TV(more than 30% of our damage) for a crappy, crappy self heal...yeah.
Edited by Sparklefairy on 12/20/2010 12:53 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7135
12/20/2010 12:53 PMPosted by Pyropism
Where did you get that ret self healing was good?

It's terrible unless you get a killing blow on somebody.

I don't know what they're talking about either. Fury warriors and Rogues self heal more than Ret does, and i'm serious.


Yes they do, and warriors have do give up absolutely zero offense to do it. Rogues give up one finisher, so I guess I'm okay with that.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
13855
In an average raid a good ret can out DPS a poor player of another spec.


Sniped for effect.

Class design has failed when a player is rewarded based on what class they selected at the character creation screen.

I fully expect it will change... but how and when remains to be seen.


TBH it is just a question of balance. Even in the lolret days you could do enough DPS to justify your raid spot, it all depended on your guild. Not everyone is in an elite world first guild. Most of us are far more casual than those guys and there is a range of gear, skill and even latency that means no one is truly lolret anymore.

The problem comes with how much harder you have to work to keep your raid spot. In TBC the gulf was so vast that to get into kara I had to farm a PvP set (back when the ret set had no resilience for some unknown reason) while guildies who hit 70 at the same time could do enough DPS in blues.

At the moment ret DPS is low, but it remains to be seen if it is lolret low. I suspect it isn't that bad. But we need numbers to be sure.

And there is a secondary issue that happened with lolret. Even though an individual could compete for a spot it could be hard to get a chance to raid. The biggest problem with lolret filtering down from top guilds was the stigma that came with the spec. People by default would not take you just because of the spec.

And this is going to be the biggest worry. If rets start getting kicked from LFD PuGs just because they are ret then blizzard will need to get hot fixing pretty quickly.
Edited by Zamm on 12/20/2010 1:12 PM PST
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90 Dwarf Paladin
13855
12/20/2010 1:11 PMPosted by Pyropism
And this is going to be the biggest worry. If rets start getting kicked from LFD PuGs just because they are ret then blizzard will need to get hot fixing pretty quickly.

My Ret is 85, and had been for a week or so. I was kicked out of 2 groups after waiting 40 minutes to get into one. One of the group leaders said sorry we need a non-fail CC /boot. The next said sorry, your DPS won't keep up without at least a heroic weapon (i was using the CoC 2 handed sword) I could pull around 9k dps. Because 5 man heroics are so hard, they want you to have CC AND twice the DPS. Oh well, i can live with ignorant people. I'm used to it. But when they say something like that and then moments later i realize i'm not even enjoying myself... time to call it quits. They're not going to change ret enough to make me like it again. I guarantee it.


it has happened to me once, but it was my first or second day as an 85 and I had even worse gear than I have now. Although I would have at least liked to have been given a reason for being kicked, and I was pulled in on a boss and they didn't even give me a shot to try my DPS out.

If it becomes standard that rets (or any class) is kicked from a LFD PuG then blizzard will have to fix it. But at the moment I don't think it is happening.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
13855
I am not sure you can claim that ret is doing horrid DPS yet. From all the available data it is the worst DPS (yet again), but the jury is still out on whether it is lolret bad or falls within the range that is acceptable for an RL to still bring a ret, knowing that they will be blown out of the water by the first or second pure of more pure classes, but will be able to out DPS the third best pure of each class in the guild.

To raid you don't need to top the DPS meter. You need to be in the top 15 or so in your guild. And that is a completely different requirement.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12085
I agree that there is a difference between being in the top few classes for dps and being unacceptably low to the point that it is lolret. There does exist a middle ground where yes a ranking does exist but the separation between extrema is minor enough that all things player related eclipse it. What defines first and last is controlled by a persons ability and knowledge.

The current reality is that all the classes need adjustment so we do not see 20-40% differences between top to bottom. There is no justification for one melee class to to out dps any other melee class by that kind of margin on the same encounter baring some massive failure of the player.

I doubt very seriously that any additional time given for things to "shake out" will result in a significant change in the status of classes compared to current data. Without the addition of some mechanic changing item or actual changes to game play, what we see now will most likely remain true. The current disparity is too large and is detrimental to play.

@Zamm I disagree that you need to be in the top 15 or so of your guild. Yes this mentality would get you a seat in the lolret days of sunwell but it pales in comparison to being able to compete with everyone. Fighting for the bottom spot is not nearly as fun as proving skill overall. Being removed from the dps race by class design is not fun nor fair.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7135
Oh, if people play ret thinking they're going to be an offensive force they're going to be sorely disappointed. It's not bad if you're babysitting a mage and then running in with wings when he sets up a shatter, but that's about it.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4375
12/20/2010 5:06 PMPosted by Sttx
I dont think you can realistically hope to be an offensive oriented spec when you have group tools like BoP and Freedom. Also, divine shield is still the strongest defensive cooldown in the game, divine protection is strong too.

I think paladins need a lot more dispel protection before anything else happens.


We had those things all through wrath and offense wasn't a problem then, at least not PVP. Now, we have even less defenses, so by that regard our offense should be a lot better at these competitive lvls.

It's not, something is wrong
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1 Draenei Warrior
0
I hope changes will happen soon. Ret is NOT competitive as it stands. Too long a ramp rate to max damage, too little DPS once there, and too variable in output to be reliable.
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85 Human Paladin
11205
Divine Shield is the strongest Defensive Cooldown...

5yrs ago...
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