Tired of going OOM

85 Human Paladin
1880
To the OP (And the person saying the gear is fine) it is most def your gear. You should not be in heroics atm IMO.

You have incredibly low mana and spell power, your spirit is a tad low as well, and you are doing the cardinal sin of wearing non plate gear.

You need to stack more int as soon as possible, then up your spirit to a level that can sustain your healing style. You also have next to zero gems or enchants (This screams at me I am not ready for Heroics).

Take the time to get your gear set up properly and you will make it incredibly easier on you and your groups ability to get through heroics. This is a huge pet peeve of mine right now, between healers, tanks and DPS jumping into heroics because it shows up in the dungeon list, and not being even close to ready to do so.

If you're doing under 7-8k dps, you should not be in a heroic.

If you are under 75k mana, 5k spell power, and 2k regen, you should not be in a heroic.

If you cant break 125k hp unbuffed, and are not close to the Expertise/hit caps, you should not be in a heroic.

The vast majority of pugs failing, and griping about heroics difficulty do not have the gear to warrant them even being there. Can you do these will stats below this? Sure, but if everyone in the group met these requirements, you would not struggle based on gear, only on execution.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
2525
I'm really impressed with how patient / helpful people have been in this thread.

Sometimes people get skewered when asking for help but you posters really delivered.

12/21/2010 12:47 PMPosted by Rufgar
If you cant break 125k hp unbuffed, and are not close to the Expertise/hit caps, you should not be in a heroic.


I tanked a PUG heroic without meeting your stat requirements, everyone said at the end of the run it was the smoothest Heroic VP they had ever been in. It was my first.

Tankadin has a lot of mitigation abilities and emergency skills to work with. Not to mention the superb AOE threat with Inquisition.
Reply Quote
12/20/2010 10:18 PMPosted by Pokerr
You gear similarly to how im gearing, just a tad lower overall i-lvl. Your gear doesnt seem to be the prob.

I have never 00m on any trash pull in heroics yet, only bosses that go badly.

It probably gets down to what spells you are using. Here is what is working for me.

-Judge at every cd. our primary mana regen
-holy light is you generic heal and most mana efficient. use as much as possible.
-holy sock every cd to keep HP charging.
-WoG at 3 hp if only tank is in need of heal. LoD if multiple targets need it (do you best to hit as many people as possible)
-If a person is at or lower than 50% health i typically hit em with a div. illum.
-if a person drops under 25% i hit with a FoL to give them some safety hp before i can get some more healz on em.
-Remember the beacon gets 50% of each heal. So in terms of OVERALL healing done, it is almost always more efficient to heal someone other than the tank. If the tank is doing ok but needs a top-off, heal someone else and let the beacon give you some bonus healing.
-FoL and DI proc HP if cast on the beacon. If you are 2/3 with shock on cd and want to get a LoD off, using one of these two may be a good idea.
-GOTAK is a long cooldown, but can help in aoe situations. Just note that he doesnt heal off LoD and holy radiance, only single target healz.
-Wings work for healz and can give you more bang if you are facing alot of damage.
-Divine plea kinda sucks as it stands, but if you are faced with 00m, 50% healing penalty is worth it compared to zero healing.
-divine purpose is best for when the tank is taking a beating and you need to be chain casting.
*- divine radiance. Dont care for it at this time. Tons of mana. id only use if EVERYONE needs 25%+ healing and are all stacked within range... otherwise you have better uses for the mana.

If you dont want to read the above, I'll repeat what i feel is most important.

-Judge at every cd.
-Judge at every cd.
-Judge at every cd.
-Judge at every cd.


WTF? Holy does not regenerate mana through judgements. Retribution and Protection, yes.

EDIT: The only time you should be judging as a holy palading is to force the haste buff to proc.
Edited by Ryac on 12/21/2010 2:19 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
8715
Seal of Insight
14% of base mana
Instant cast
Fills the Paladin with divine power for 30 min, giving each single-target melee attack a chance to heal the Paladin for [15% of AP + 15% of SPH] and restore 4% of the paladin's base mana. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time.

Unleashing this Seal's energy will deal [1 + 25% of SPH + 16% of AP] Holy damage to an enemy and restore 15% of the Paladin's base mana.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
5295
12/21/2010 12:47 PMPosted by Rufgar
To the OP (And the person saying the gear is fine) it is most def your gear. You should not be in heroics atm IMO.

You have incredibly low mana and spell power, your spirit is a tad low as well, and you are doing the cardinal sin of wearing non plate gear.

You need to stack more int as soon as possible, then up your spirit to a level that can sustain your healing style. You also have next to zero gems or enchants (This screams at me I am not ready for Heroics).

Take the time to get your gear set up properly and you will make it incredibly easier on you and your groups ability to get through heroics. This is a huge pet peeve of mine right now, between healers, tanks and DPS jumping into heroics because it shows up in the dungeon list, and not being even close to ready to do so.

If you're doing under 7-8k dps, you should not be in a heroic.

If you are under 75k mana, 5k spell power, and 2k regen, you should not be in a heroic.

If you cant break 125k hp unbuffed, and are not close to the Expertise/hit caps, you should not be in a heroic.

The vast majority of pugs failing, and griping about heroics difficulty do not have the gear to warrant them even being there. Can you do these will stats below this? Sure, but if everyone in the group met these requirements, you would not struggle based on gear, only on execution.


Or you can stop being herp derp and actually learn to play without over gearing the content.

I've healed heroics in 329 ilevel items with a cloth belt and legs, without much issue.

A: judge for mana when needed. I dont judge every 6 seconds, only on bosses fights as needed.
B: Dont use FoL/DL when you dont need to. Build holy power quick, use word of glory and procs as needed.
C: tell your DPS and tank to stop being herp derp.

Until you are at like 340~ item level you might run out of mana on a boss fight, at 340 if you run out of mana on a pull, you either have a tank that is derp like me and doesnt CC, or you are doing something wrong. I looked at your gear, you should get a few more items with spirit on it, drop all haste for crit/mast. Get some green 30/35 gems, get a better mainhand and shield, should you be having trouble, yeah it should be challenging for you, but doable? Totally.
Reply Quote
85 Human Paladin
4880
12/21/2010 2:10 PMPosted by Ryac
WTF? Holy does not regenerate mana through judgements. Retribution and Protection, yes.

EDIT: The only time you should be judging as a holy palading is to force the haste buff to proc.


Flat out, 100% wrong.

Mana regen does occur with Judging with Seal of Insight.
Reply Quote
85 Human Paladin
5830
12/21/2010 2:10 PMPosted by Ryac
WTF? Holy does not regenerate mana through judgements. Retribution and Protection, yes.

EDIT: The only time you should be judging as a holy palading is to force the haste buff to proc.


Bad cop, no donut.

Yes holy does - Seal of Insight. Judgement nets you about 2k mana per (including cost of the judgement). So do white hits.

You are COMPLETELY doing it wrong.

12/21/2010 2:31 PMPosted by Wingates
Or you can stop being herp derp and actually learn to play without over gearing the content.

I've healed heroics in 329 ilevel items with a cloth belt and legs, without much issue.


OP does not have 329 ilevel. OP has 320 ilevel equipped. The OP needs better gear for heroics.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
5295
12/21/2010 2:53 PMPosted by Setanta
WTF? Holy does not regenerate mana through judgements. Retribution and Protection, yes.

EDIT: The only time you should be judging as a holy palading is to force the haste buff to proc.


Bad cop, no donut.

Yes holy does - Seal of Insight. Judgement nets you about 2k mana per (including cost of the judgement). So do white hits.

You are COMPLETELY doing it wrong.

Or you can stop being herp derp and actually learn to play without over gearing the content.

I've healed heroics in 329 ilevel items with a cloth belt and legs, without much issue.


OP does not have 329 ilevel. OP has 320 ilevel equipped. The OP needs better gear for heroics.


Really, because its people like you... Why do I even try? No really, I know clicking things is hard but just go to his profile.

331 Average item level
(330 Equipped).
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
2525
Seal of Insight
14% of base mana
Instant cast
Fills the Paladin with divine power for 30 min, giving each single-target melee attack a chance to heal the Paladin for [15% of AP + 15% of SPH] and restore 4% of the paladin's base mana. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time.

Unleashing this Seal's energy will deal [1 + 25% of SPH + 16% of AP] Holy damage to an enemy and restore 15% of the Paladin's base mana.


Marked the key words above in bold and underline.

AFAIK, Judgement is regarded as a (ranged) melee attack for the purposes of Seal procs, at least for SoR and SoI. So Judgement will proc the SoI mana regen.

I'm not sure re: SoT and SoJ - gonna test when I get home.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
8650
Seal of Insight
14% of base mana
Instant cast
Fills the Paladin with divine power for 30 min, giving each single-target melee attack a chance to heal the Paladin for [15% of AP + 15% of SPH] and restore 4% of the paladin's base mana. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time.

Unleashing this Seal's energy will deal [1 + 25% of SPH + 16% of AP] Holy damage to an enemy and restore 15% of the Paladin's base mana.


Marked the key words above in bold and underline.

AFAIK, Judgement is regarded as a (ranged) melee attack for the purposes of Seal procs, at least for SoR and SoI. So Judgement will proc the SoI mana regen.

I'm not sure re: SoT and SoJ - gonna test when I get home.


Underlined the actually relevant part of the discussion.
Reply Quote
85 Human Paladin
5745
12/21/2010 2:44 PMPosted by Seska
If you sit next to the tank and Crusader Strike, you will go OOM much faster. The Holy Power generation doesn't make up for the fact that you're wasting 10% of base mana to get it. If you REALLY need the extra HP, try using Hand of Reckoning. Much cheaper, and syncs well with the internal cooldown of Blessed Life.


if you spec blessed life in a PVE spec you're doing it wrong.


What else are you going to put those points in? Arbiter of the Light? Blazing Light? Denounce?

One point in Blessed Life is a nice bit of extra HP generation, because trust me, you'll be taking damage.
Reply Quote
85 Human Paladin
1540
12/20/2010 10:39 PMPosted by Luckylucky
Thanks for this post, it really helped. I never knew Flash of Light was such a mana drain, meaning I wasn't aware that there were better heal options besides the other supportive ones.


If there was EVER an option that I needed to flash someone, I would divine light anyways. It's more efficient, and with the way I'm spreading WoG, shocks, judgements, and working off of infusion of light procs, it becomes a pointless prospect to ever use flash, since it never gets to that point. If it gets to that point where a quick heal means life or death, I'll lay on hands. But I put emphasis on that point to TRY and not make it get to that point.

You don't have to keep everyone topped off. Just keep that in mind.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
10575
It isn't your gear, its one of two things or a combo of both.

1. You don't understand your new spell mana costs. Your fast heals cost a crap ton of mana now, you can only use them as emergency spells. Go and read your spell book again and take note of mana cost.

2. Your groups suck. Cataclysm is not a stand and stare at recount game. All DPS need to be interrupting and moving through mana of the fights. Turn your recount from DPS or HPS to damage taken. Look for players that are unusually high, you'll often see one or two above the tank, now let them die. When they die immediately say, "don't stand in that newb you're sucking my mana down." Also say, "interrupt the damn casters" every few pulls. Anytime you are running out of mana it is guaranteed that both phrases fit.

There are a few healer fights, but the vast majority of fights should be ending with you at 80%+ mana if the DPS, Tank, and yourself are positioning correctly and interrupting.
Reply Quote
85 Human Paladin
5830
12/21/2010 3:03 PMPosted by Wingates
Really, because its people like you... Why do I even try? No really, I know clicking things is hard but just go to his profile.

331 Average item level
(330 Equipped).


*shrug* Blame the armory. This morning it was 331 average iLevel, 320 equipped.

EDIT: Still wearing cloth/leather/mail and losing 5% int - that makes a hefty difference too.
Edited by Setanta on 12/21/2010 5:19 PM PST
Reply Quote
100 Human Paladin
20605
12/21/2010 12:25 PMPosted by Jantilla
You should never use hand of reckoning as a healer in PVE except in the most extreme and gimmicky situations.


The game is full of gimmicks and opportunities to use them. I'm not saying to use it on cooldown, but with all the self-healing we do anyway, it's fairly rare that we can't survive three seconds of undivided attention.


If you're taunting off of a tank, even on trash, you're making your tanks job that much harder for no real reason. You're also at risk of killing yourself for no real gain. You have much better, safer and reliable ways to gain HP in PVE.

You're also adding to the DR of taunt, therefore making it so that the tank MAY not be able to get it back off of you. Stop doing it.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
0
^ taunting off the tank has to be the worst idea I have ever heard of. While I can agree that we could probably tank one elite no prob it really screws with a tank. Because a good tank is going to notice when he loses aggro on a mob and it is going to cause him to drop his rotation try and switch targets, and taunt. Which in turn will reduce his threat on other mobs etc etc etc. Terrible idea.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]