I see holy pallies stacking too much haste

6 Troll Shaman
0
Based on the unrealistic amount of rating required to GCD cap. May be off by 1-2% due to rounding.
In Summary:
3491 Haste Rating -
27.247% haste, or 27.247% increase to HPS.

3491 Crit Rating -
19.481% crit or 9.740% increase to HPS and HPM

3491 Mastery Rating -
19.48 Mastery or 24.351% bigger shields or predicted 12.176% increase to HPS and HPM. Assume 1/2 of your shields are wasted.
Can we end this debate now? Here's the math. Now decide for yourself what you PERSONALLY like best.

EDIT: Here's some realistic haste caps to aim for.

2 seconds seems to be a common boss swing timer. To get a 2 sec cast time so the boss doesn't hit twice between heals, you need 774 haste.

To get a "nice" rotation of Shock->HL/DL->HL/DL->Some other Instant (repeat), and have the rotation be 6 seconds long you need:
1680 haste.

EDIT2: Ugh, someone's going to misquote me on this and this whole mess is going to blow up into something bigger than it is. Just get enough haste so you don't reflex fail.
Edited by Lylthe on 12/21/2010 12:58 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8715
12/21/2010 12:48 PMPosted by Lylthe
Based on the unrealistic amount of rating required to GCD cap. May be off by 1-2% due to rounding.
In Summary:
3491 Haste Rating -
27.247% haste, or 27.247% increase to HPS.

3491 Crit Rating -
19.481% crit or 9.740% increase to HPS and HPM

3491 Mastery Rating -
19.48 Mastery or 24.351% bigger shields or predicted 12.176% increase to HPS and HPM. Assume 1/2 of your shields are wasted.
Can we end this debate now? Here's the math. Now decide for yourself what you PERSONALLY like best.


3491 Haste Rating while out of mana -
0 increase to HPS.

If you have the MP5 to cover your mana pool, then by all means, stack haste.
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6 Troll Shaman
0
Sorry. My post wasn't as clear as I wanted it to be. I'm not advocating haste stacking. I'm only trying to give numbers that are as accurate and as fair as possible. I leave it up to you to make your own conclusions. The differences in secondary stat stacking is so minuscule that I believe we're wasting our time.
Edited by Lylthe on 12/21/2010 1:01 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
8640
There are valid arguements to both sides, haste or crit. Mastery is a useless stat i have found and staying at 8 mastery or 10% absorb is more then you will need, as gear goes up we will likely get more but it would be best to reforge that away.

Crit is to me our most important secondary stat, I say this because crit gives us almost a bit of everything, haste is gauranteed healing output yes. but you spend mana faster. Crit is RNG throughput, however it costs no extra mana to crit aswell it does give you haste through IoL. It also helps keep conviction up ( altho i never notice it falling anyways )

Crit holy shocks are what bring synergy to our class. Right now im at about 18% crit base i believe so that goes up to about 24% in raids and then i have an additonal 15% crit on holy shocks through glyph/talent. so my holy shock crits 39% of the time. That is a safe number to be at, however as we start getting raid gear and epics we will want more haste, so a balance will be nice. Im not going to mass reforge my crit into haste or vice versa as both stats are good for us. I will however pick up more spirit/haste peices of gear.

For me itemization goes in this order

Intellect>Spirit>Crit>haste>mastery

Crit and haste swap from time to time in an ideal world i would like to have 20% haste and no more. right now im at i think about 6 or 8% haste unbuffed, whitch goes up 14% in raids through jotp and buffs. so im at that right now. That brings the base cast of Divine Light and Holy Light to 1.9 seconds give or take. That is more then enough especially since we should all be holy shocking on cooldown and when we crit we get under one second casts of each of thoose spells.

In conclusion i believe crit to be better then haste. But it does in the end come down to your healing style. Me i personally love seeing thoose big 42k+ Divine Light crits =P
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85 Human Paladin
5830
12/21/2010 12:39 PMPosted by Rabel
Its not wrong, it is just different.


Exactly, thank you. People are healing differently, playing differently - it makes sense that their gearing/stat choices are different - especially secondary stats.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3025
For those looking for math.
For those who don't care, don't read ;)

In this, Divine Light will always do 25,000 healing. This is with 0mp5 casting and not casting. I haven't bothered to factor in mana regen, it has yet to be requested.
Haste rating gives more percentage than crit rating does, according to Lylthe, by 40%. This is why I am comparing these two stats with haste having a higher number (in most cases).
Assume you have the same crit and haste rating. (I'm not interested in the exact rating you need, just the percentages.)


+2.0% crit is effectively +1.0% overall healing at +0.0% mana consumption rate to base mana cost.
+2.8% haste is effectively +2.8% overall healing at +2.8% mana consumption rate to base mana cost.

I'm going to cover:
20% crit and 0% haste
0% crit and 20% haste
10% crit and 14% haste
15% crit and 7% haste
5% crit and 21% haste

You are specced into Clarity of Purpose. You have 0mp5. You have 100,000 max mana.

20% crit and 0% haste
The effective heals from crit is +10% healing. This means you will get an average of 27,500 from your Divine Lights.
There is no haste so your casting time is 2.5 seconds. This means at 27,500 per 2.5 cast, you'll get 10,000 hps.
You'll be oom in 35 seconds. 35 x 10,000 = 350,000 healing before you're oom.

0% crit and 20% haste
Without crit your heals remain an average of 25,000 from your Divine Lights.
The haste drops the casting time to 2.0 seconds. This means at 25,000 per 2 cast, you'll get 12,500 hps.
You'll be oom in 28 seconds. 28 x 12,500 = 350,000 healing before you're oom.

10% crit and 14% haste
The effective heals from crit is +5% healing. This means you will get an average of 26,250 from your Divine Lights.
The haste drops the casting time to 2.15 seconds. This means at 26,250 per 2.15 cast, you'll get 12,209.302 hps.
You'll be oom in 30 seconds. 30 x 12,209.302 = 366,279.07 healing before you're oom.

15% crit and 7% haste
The effective heals from crit is 7.5%. This means you'll get an average of 26,875 from your Divine Lights.
The haste drops the casting time to 2.325 seconds. This means at 26,875 per 2.325 cast, you'll get 11,559.14 hps.
You'll be oom in 32 seconds. 32 x 11,559.14 = 369,892.47 healing before you're oom.

5% crit and 21% haste
The effective heals from crit is 2.5%. This means you'll get an average of 25,625 from your Divine Lights.
The haste drops the casting time to 1.975 seconds. This means at 25,625 per 1.975 cast, you'll get 12,974.684 hps.
You'll be oom in 27 seconds. 27 x 12,974 = 350,316.46 healing before you're oom.


Note how pure crit and pure haste heal the same amount, haste ooms 20% quicker. Mixing haste and crit is the logical choice, although it seems that having twice as much crit as you have haste is the most efficient. I wouldn't be surprised if the +3% haste from Speed of Light and the +9% haste from Judgements of the Pure alters results.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3025
Posted by Jondoe
If possible, could someone who has stacked mostly haste post some raid boss Healing Done meters?


Strictly 10 man logs, but here ya go.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w5sxme5bq5n7y5fr/sum/healingDone/?s=8550&e=8984 - Magmaw 10 from a week ago

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1f73043mvzbpl5so/sum/healingDone/?s=5207&e=5528 - Halfus Wyrmbreaker kill from a couple nights ago

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1f73043mvzbpl5so/sum/healingDone/?s=9301&e=9716 - Double Dragon's (I died because I'm bad)

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1f73043mvzbpl5so/sum/healingDone/?s=1945&e=2389 - Atramedes (I was on Gong bangin' duty)

*Now we need some logs from a pally who "prioritizes* crit/mastery over haste to compare =p


http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-hu3v6yaqgqd6y4ps/sum/healingDone/?s=8685&e=9181
Magmaw 10 tonight.

Experimenting with pure crit build. Reforged all haste and mastery to crit. I lost 1 point of mastery to gain ~3% crit.
I really enjoy always having an Infusion of Light.
Edited by Jondoe on 12/21/2010 9:42 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
6965
I try to keep a good balance of both haste and crit (13.73% haste 13.36% crit) but favoring haste more atm....


logs from out 10 man tonight.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-q8bq66i0v8pzw1ig/sum/healingDone/
Edited by Sioras on 12/22/2010 4:00 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3010
its all relative to play style now. People can stack all the haste they want or crit or even mastery if they want to. Also people wondering if massing int or going for full spirit on gear. What i like about healing now, is that its very personalized, no longer the one or two button spam and your gear choices can positivly affect your heal style. I personally like going crit, with secondary as haste since i get plenty of haste talents. Also my MP5 with my crit make it to where i can do bigger heals with out going OOM quickly
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
2995
12/22/2010 5:06 AMPosted by Lackdanon
its all relative to play style now. People can stack all the haste they want or crit or even mastery if they want to. Also people wondering if massing int or going for full spirit on gear. What i like about healing now, is that its very personalized, no longer the one or two button spam and your gear choices can positivly affect your heal style. I personally like going crit, with secondary as haste since i get plenty of haste talents. Also my MP5 with my crit make it to where i can do bigger heals with out going OOM quickly


People need to start seeing haste as a mana efficiency stat, as it makes a HL spam with HS on cd a more viable healing choice, with more effective HPM. Also when looking at the T11 bonuses, Holy Radiance almost becomes an on CD spell, and haste improves HPS of HR more then crit.
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85 Human Paladin
7715
Crit can >NEVER< be relied upon as a throughput stat as a healer though which greatly lowers it's real world value
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
2995
Crit can >NEVER< be relied upon as a throughput stat as a healer though which greatly lowers it's real world value


Exactly, one string of bad luck and the tanks dead, in an ideal world your never going to have a tank drop below say 20% hp, but when that situation arises crit is usless and will cause wipes.
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85 Human Paladin
7715
Crit can >NEVER< be relied upon as a throughput stat as a healer though which greatly lowers it's real world value


Exactly, one string of bad luck and the tanks dead, in an ideal world your never going to have a tank drop below say 20% hp, but when that situation arises crit is usless and will cause wipes.


Especially with bosses 2 shotting tanks again already...
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3025
HPS is relative to many things including the skill of the other healers in your raid. That said, 8k HPS lol what the hell I do 11k in PvP gear with a pvp spec. Do you click everything??


In pvp it's either you're dead in 30 seconds or they're dead in 30 seconds. You can afford to -spam- DL and FoL. If you even attempted pvp tactics in on a raid boss you'll be oom before the boss is at 50%, which means a dead tank.
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