I see holy pallies stacking too much haste

85 Human Paladin
7715
Consistency has always been king in PVE as well be it for DPS, tanks or healers.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13260
The whole 20% thing works if all you ever intend to do in cataclysm is to holy shock, then holy light 2 times, and then repeat.

I prefer stacking haste because:

#1. Slow heals are boring.
#2. I'm pretty sure haste effects increase the number of ticks from holy radiance right now.
#3. It is just more reliable than crit.

Right now my with the number of sheer heals you can shoot out, with POTI on all of them, I never see my conviction stack fall off.

I don't have any logs saved so everyone can call shens if they want, but I raid right now with a disc priest and a holy priest, and most fights I am on top of the meters with about 10-11k HPS.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8715
12/22/2010 6:31 AMPosted by Shoopuf
Consistency has always been king in PVE as well be it for DPS, tanks or healers.


I think you guys are missing the point of stacking crit. The reason I'm stacking crit is not to have a specific larger heal at a specific time, but to have overall increased healing over the course of a fight for no increased mana consumption.

Stacking crit will not hold up in raids, but it helps immensely in running heroics, while you're in the process of increasing your spirit and other stats enough to support more haste and HPS. HPS cannot be the focus if you are running OOM every fight. Once your mana regen hits a certain point, haste should absolutely be stacked.

So again, the point of stacking crit to start out with is to increase your healing per fight, and thus, reduce your mana consumption per fight. It is NOT meant to increase HPS or to rely on for specific large heals, and will not hold up as a strategy in raids over the long term.

I think I'm to that point now, and I'll be starting to focus on more haste as I prepare to run raids next week.

Stacking crit is an interim strategy and will help holy pallies who are not yet raiding and struggling with mana issues in heroics.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3025
12/22/2010 6:37 AMPosted by Foam
I don't have any logs saved so everyone can call shens if they want, but I raid right now with a disc priest and a holy priest, and most fights I am on top of the meters with about 10-11k HPS.


A paladin healing better than a priest right now? Unheard of ;)
Priests are in bad shape atm, go check out their forum.

Like someone said above, your ability to heal in raids depends not only on yourself but your other healer(s). Resto druid in my guild gets top healing due to superior AoE healing, but I still have the strongest tank healing. Unless Blizzard introduces another Patchwerk fight, it'll be very difficult to accurately compare different classes with one another.

But all this is irrelevent, why are you guys striving for top HPS anyways? It's a 5-6 minute long fight, the name of the game is mana conservation not topping the heal charts.
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85 Night Elf Priest
4605
You could have emphasised the Heroic part a bit more clearly I think. I thought you were talking about overall speccing.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3025
12/22/2010 6:43 AMPosted by Saintly
You could have emphasised the Heroic part a bit more clearly I think. I thought you were talking about overall speccing.


When I started this thread I was only concerned with raiding. Heroics are a joke at this point for my guild.
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39 Blood Elf Paladin
820

Stacking crit will not hold up in raids, but it helps immensely in running heroics, while you're in the process of increasing your spirit and other stats enough to support more haste and HPS. HPS cannot be the focus if you are running OOM every fight. Once your mana regen hits a certain point, haste should absolutely be stacked.



I believe this is a good point. Haste arguements for lower geared pallies can get to be very confusing you do not want a new pally heading out to reforge all gear to haste because they misunderstood an arguement on the forums. If they don't have a nice mix of stats they will not get far. Haste grows in importance as your gear becomes more well rounded. Int/spirit/crit/haste/mastery Crit and haste can later be adjusted based on your gear.



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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3025
I believe this is a good point. Haste arguements for lower geared pallies can get to be very confusing you do not want a new pally heading out to reforge all gear to haste because they misunderstood an arguement on the forums. If they don't have a nice mix of stats they will not get far. Haste grows in importance as your gear becomes more well rounded. Int/spirit/crit/haste/mastery Crit and haste can later be adjusted based on your gear.


I know you.
Coconutz, 29 bracket in formerly known as Reckoning?
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85 Human Paladin
7715
12/22/2010 6:38 AMPosted by Vervacious
Consistency has always been king in PVE as well be it for DPS, tanks or healers.


I think you guys are missing the point of stacking crit. The reason I'm stacking crit is not to have a specific larger heal at a specific time, but to have overall increased healing over the course of a fight for no increased mana consumption.

Stacking crit will not hold up in raids, but it helps immensely in running heroics, while you're in the process of increasing your spirit and other stats enough to support more haste and HPS. HPS cannot be the focus if you are running OOM every fight. Once your mana regen hits a certain point, haste should absolutely be stacked.

So again, the point of stacking crit to start out with is to increase your healing per fight, and thus, reduce your mana consumption per fight. It is NOT meant to increase HPS or to rely on for specific large heals, and will not hold up as a strategy in raids over the long term.

I think I'm to that point now, and I'll be starting to focus on more haste as I prepare to run raids next week.

Stacking crit is an interim strategy and will help holy pallies who are not yet raiding and struggling with mana issues in heroics.


I don't generally equate gearing strategies with anything outside of the current top content and I believe many others are the same. Probably would have done well to specify that you were referring to heroics, whereas I was referring to current heroic-raids.
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39 Blood Elf Paladin
820
12/22/2010 6:45 AMPosted by Jondoe
When I started this thread I was only concerned with raiding. Heroics are a joke at this point for my guild



Maybe so but pally's leveling and trying to obtain info on how to best gear thier toon as they progress are likely reading it too ;P I wouldn't put it past one to go out and forge/chant/gem everything into haste just to meet the numbers they read would improve thier heals only to find out thier gear doesn't support the mana pool, spellpower, crit, regen to do so.

@ jon Yes, I'm that coco :)
Edited by Coconutz on 12/22/2010 6:54 AM PST
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85 Night Elf Priest
4605
12/22/2010 6:45 AMPosted by Jondoe
You could have emphasised the Heroic part a bit more clearly I think. I thought you were talking about overall speccing.


When I started this thread I was only concerned with raiding. Heroics are a joke at this point for my guild.


Oh no, not you. I meant Vervacious. The post directly above yours.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3025
Maybe so but pally's leveling and trying to obtain info on how to best gear thier toon as they progress are likely reading it too ;P I wouldn't put it past one to go out and forge/chant/gem everything into haste just to meet the numbers they read would improve thier heals only to find out thier gear doesn't support the mana pool, spellpower, crit, regen to do so.

@ jan Yes, I'm that coco :)


Neat lol. Although, you wouldn't know me, I spent a few days in the 29 bracket but lost interest. I used to read the 29 forums all the time though.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13260
12/22/2010 6:43 AMPosted by Jondoe
A paladin healing better than a priest right now? Unheard of ;)
Priests are in bad shape atm, go check out their forum.

Like someone said above, your ability to heal in raids depends not only on yourself but your other healer(s). Resto druid in my guild gets top healing due to superior AoE healing, but I still have the strongest tank healing. Unless Blizzard introduces another Patchwerk fight, it'll be very difficult to accurately compare different classes with one another.

But all this is irrelevent, why are you guys striving for top HPS anyways? It's a 5-6 minute long fight, the name of the game is mana conservation not topping the heal charts.


Its not that I care about topping a meter, but my point is that my HPS is high enough to support the raid and then we kill the boss and then I get PURPZ.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
15520
I'm aiming for 14.5% haste to get 14 ticks on my Holy radiance and then I'll stack something else... probably crit since our mastery is so underwhelming.

As far as mana goes, I can see how people would be ooming in 10 mans since they are so composition reliant at the moment but in 25 mans I feel like any holy paladin that has mana issues on regular modes is "doing it wrong". Heck, if it wasn't for hard modes I'd be reforging away spirit.

Also whoever said priests are in a bad shape and druids are raid healers at the moment... really?

I don't wanna sound condescending and I would post logs to back anything up but they're private.
Edited by Kanjar on 12/22/2010 7:55 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
12405
I think people should gem/enchant/reforge as their play style dictates. Personally, the secondary stats I go for are haste and spirit.

Haste will always mean more options and being able to adapt to new situations faster for me. Haste allows me to weave in more Holy Lights in situations when I once had to use Flash or Divine Light. Haste improves my GCD so I can return to healing faster after squeezing in that Judgement for mana, or dropping that Hand of Sacrifice on the tank during heavy damage. Ultimately, I think haste is a very versatile stat and allows for better decision-making on the fly.

And spirit needs no explanation. Mana is good!

Here is a log from my guild's BWD and BoT run for perusal.
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-b7nuyfshv59g3dbd/
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